A question for people who are pro-abortion

reply to post by kingofmd

if you don't understand this concept ...

How is the baby, with its own DNA a "part" of the womans body?

then you have no foundation from which to form an opinion.

to answer your nonsense, perhaps we should expand government control to include enforcing Child Support payments from the MOMENT of conception ??

Posts own opinions on abortion and then several examples with the sole intent of invoking an emotional reaction.

Please, not this thread again.

it's simple.

leave it to the woman to decide

now get on with your life

reply to post by James1982


People have never been able to agree on when human life begins home.earthlink.net...

My own view is that all life began long before it takes form here on earth. Human life differs only in that we are fully aware that our experience is conscious, self aware and rational. As I believe life itself does not belong to us, that we each are animated or ensouled with our own little bit of the universe, I think abortion is always wrong. However, as humans we are endowed with the universal right to self determination and as such, each of us has the right to choose to do the wrong thing. I do not judge women who choose abortion and I support the right of every woman to do as she wills with her pregnancy but I object to being judged for not pretending that abortion or making a choice is in itself, a moral position or that the aborted are/were not human. Abortion should never be trivialised or dismissed as either a simple proceedure much as tooth extraction or as only a women's issue. If dehumanisation begins in the womb, then all human life is devalued for it.

I see the pro-choice arguement as entirely hypocritcal in that it uses highly emotive language to deny the humanity of the life supported by the pregnancy. This neurolingual programming has negatively impacted modern society as it is an attack on maternity that far from freeing women from hardship service to the child, actually undermines and demotes motherhood to a function that exists outside of love.

Consider this; the natural maternal act is to protect and nurture whereas abortion seeks and destroys. Abortion is a very important part of the depopulation agenda and the pro choice movement is but a tool of the fat controllers who seek to enslave all humanity.

Originally posted by Kali74
No one is pro abortion.
Pro-choice doesn't equal pro abortion.
There's no such thing as a full term abortion.
No one would feed a dog an aborted fetus, or stomp it under their heel. WTF kind of question is that even? Do we do that with severed limbs or removed appendixes? No.

Are you really that unable to comprehend the subject matter of the OP? Or are you just so incredibly lazy you cannot read through a thread to completion before posting? You add zero content to this thread, you only repeat the same nonsense that has already been posted, AND ANSWERED.

Since I have addressed this issue NUMEROUS times so far, I'll just quote myself:

Originally posted by James1982

The main point here is:

Most pro-abortionists say a fetus is NOT a being, an entity, until it is born.

If the fetus IS an entity, a being, the argument of "it's the woman's body" falls flat.

Therefore, if the acts describe invoke an emotional response, this proves that people DO believe a fetus IS an entity, it's own being, therefore the argument "it's a woman's body" is a fallacy, as we all realize a fetus is NOT the woman's body, it's a being, its own entity.

THAT'S that basis for be describing those acts. I hope you can follow.

I posted that already, earlier in thread. And it was NOT the first time I explained it, but evidently people are too intellectually stunted to understand it, or too lazy to read it. Which one are you?

reply to post by Necrobile


So your whole post is defending abortion.... why did you feel the need to do so? I've already stated in my OP, and in NUMEROUS replies that I SUPPORT ABORTION. Did I need to put it in all caps for you people to be able to read it? I'll repeat again: I SUPPORT ABORTION, because I am a realist. It goes against the most basic moral code of not killing others, but real life often trumps idealist morals, this is one of those cases. Self defense is one of those cases. Executing convicted murderers is one of those cases.

My goal was not to change anyone's mind, and if you actually read and comprehended this thread you would understand that. I spelled it out numerous times, my goal was to get people to BE HONEST with themselves. You aren't being honest with yourself if you find something wrong with mutilating a fetus, yet don't find anything wrong with aborting one. Get it? Probably not... but at least I tried.

Originally posted by WhiteHat


Why is that relevant to you? Why is an unborn child more important than the rest of humans who die daily in this world? Kids, teenagers or grownups, they die every minute and every second, as we speak even, from various reasons, some more absurd than abortion. I never understood why is everybody so passionate about fetuses, when millions of kids die of hunger and thirst.

Maybe when we, as society, we'll be able to support all our kids, wanted or unwanted, women won't see a reason for abortion anymore.

Where did I say an unborn child was more important than other deaths? Where did I say ANY of the garbage that you people are accrediting to me?

You guys keep responding to this thread as if this was an anti-abortion thread, as if I'm against abortion, why do you all lack the ability to actually THINK and COMPREHEND what is being said? 90% of you got it wrong, and have no idea what I'm saying. Even though I have repeated it OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

Luckily there are a FEW people who got it, I actually got PMs from a few people who totally understood what I was saying. They likely PMed me instead of posting in this thread due to the overload of ignorant people who refused to read the entire thread before bleating their tired worn out rhetoric that is totally irrelevant to the subject.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
While were on the topic of controlling people and their bodies i propose that all men only be allowed to masturbate twice a week and NEVER on a sunday (for religious reasons)

Please explain the relevance of your post to this thread?

Anywhere in this thread did I say abortion should be illegal? No, in fact I said I support abortion. So what are you even talking about?

You look at the issue of abortion, and think it's an issue of people telling Women what to do with their bodies. They had the choice to chance getting pregnant. When a woman gets an abortion, SHE is telling someone else what to do with their body, SHE is dictating to the unborn child that the child must die, and not live.

If you are against telling others what to do with their bodies, you should be against abortion, as aborting a baby is telling that baby it doesn't have the right to live and grow, and that baby never had the choice to be conceived, where as the woman did have the choice to engage in sex or not.

That's irrelevant anyway, as this thread is not anti-abortion and nor am I.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Interestingly enough, you are completely ignoring the fact that I was speaking of the abortion of a full term fetus. The specific procedure that I was speaking of is what some people call a partial birth abortion.

In that procedure, the fetus is delivered feet first (known as a breech birth). Breech births are avoided during normal deliveries. It is done intentionally for a full term abortion for a specific reason. The reason is, if the fetus is delivered head first, it transforms magically into a baby when the head is outside of the mother. If they deliver it head first and snip the spine, it is considered murder. Feet first, with the head still in the mother, it is a fetus and snip away.... it is just an abortion.

You know what it is all about, don't you? You just directed the discussion away from the difficult question to say that more mothers die giving birth than women having abortions.

See, the question is this: For a full term abortion, why not just deliver the baby head first and throw it in the trash? It would be safer for the mother. Breech delivery is not recommended. As far as throwing it in the trash, why not. If it isn't a baby when the head is in the mother, it isn't after it pops out a second later.

edit on 4-4-2013 by butcherguy because: (no reason given)

It's not interesting that they re-directed the subject, it's dishonest.

You illustrate perfectly the hypocrisy of the arguments that many people have, because you demonstrate how a baby can be killed either way, but feet first it's NOT considered a live child, head first it is.

It's a great example, and that's why nobody will directly respond to you. They will twist your words and redirect the subject away from it, because it's too difficult for them to be honest with themselves about supporting the killing of a baby.

Originally posted by WeRpeons

I think if a woman is raped, involved in incest, or is in severe medical danger, she should absolutely be able to have an abortion.

reply to post by James1982

 

If you're pro-life, under those conditions you still wouldn't have the choice to abortion, not even if the mother's life was in danger. Pro-choice doesn't mean pro-abortion. It means it leaves the choice of abortion up to the mother.

Wouldn't you want to have a choice to abort if it was going to end up killing you? How about if you were a victim of a horrendous rape, would you like to have a child who would always remind you of that terrifying incident in your life? Wouldn't you want that "choice" option? How about having a choice to abort a fetus who would end up having a horrendous disability. Would you want to live an entire life needing to be fed, changed, and bathed? Having the choice to Abort is between the mother and her maker. Nobody has the right to decide what you can or cannot do to your own body.

Pro-choice is black or white. There is no gray area. When you declare yourself Pro-Life, you want to preserve life at any cost. So it sounds like you're more pro-choice rather than pro-life.

Here's the hypocrisy of the whole Pro-Life thing...

1. They're the first ones that say they want government to stay out of their life, yet they want the government to
make it a law that declares abortion is illegal and decide on what a women is allowed to do with her own
body.

2. Most Pro-Lifers support capital punishment. Isn't that also killing a living human being? Life is life.

3. Most Pro-Lifers support an invasive foreign policy and are the main supporters of U.S. conflicts and wars.
Again where is the concern for human life here?

4. Most Pro-Lifers prefer private healthcare Insurance that leave millions without healthcare or
preventative medical care. Preserving life at any cost, isn't that the hallmark of Pro-Life?

5. Most Pro-Lifers are hunters, so being Pro-Life doesn't take into consideration the life of animals?

edit on 4-4-2013 by WeRpeons because: (no reason given)

Cool, yes I absolutely understand the hypocrisy of Pro-lifers, that's why I AM NOT A PRO-LIFER.

Which you would understand perfectly if you read the thread and were able to comprehend it.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Abortion is a women's issue and you should leave it to women to decide what's right and wrong.

It's only a woman's issue if you completely strip away ANY rights of the baby. Because if that baby is an actual being, it has rights, and you choose to ignore those rights (or believe it has no rights) in order to maintain the status quo of it being a woman-only issue.

I don't see why the killing of an unborn child is anything but a HUMAN issue.

If a man sticks a newborn baby up his butt, it's a man's issue, because the baby is in HIS body, therefore he should be able to kill it and women should have no say. That's the logic you use.

To extend your logic, children are raised in their parents house. Parents should be able to do ANYTHING they want to their children, because those children are in THEIR house, Beat them, molest them, kill them, it doesn't matter because the children are in their parent's house, so the parents are the ONLY ones who should have any say in what happens to those children.

How is that any different than it being 100% a womans issue, just because the baby is inside the woman? You are violating the rights of the baby, but that's OK.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by jjkenobi
In the hospital right now this second what determines if a person is alive or not? Pulse. Heartbeat.

As soon as a fetus has a heartbeat it's alive.

A heartbeat may mean something is alive, but is it a person? A zygote isn't a person, but it may be "alive".

It's alive, and has 100% human DNA, how is that anything other than a person?

Originally posted by aethertek
God is Pro-Abortion, look how many fetuses He aborts.

Although statistics can vary slightly from one source to the next, here is a general account (based primarily on information provided by the March of Dimes) of the frequency of miscarriages in the United States:

There are about 4.4 million confirmed pregnancies in the U.S. every year.
900,000 to 1 million of those end in pregnancy losses EVERY year.
More than 500,000 pregnancies each year end in miscarriage (occurring during the first 20 weeks). Approximately 26,000 end in stillbirth (considered stillbirth after 20 weeks)
Approximately 19,000 end in infant death during the first month.
Approximately 39,000 end in infant death during the first year.
Approximately 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage; some estimates are as high as 1 in 3. If you include loss that occurs before a positive pregnancy test, some estimate that 40% of all conceptions result in loss.

www.hopexchange.com...

K~

He is evidently pro-rape and pro-murder too, seeing how many of those he allows to happen. That's a bad argument, and irrelevant to me, as I don't believe in god.

Once again this has nothing to do with the subject of the thread, but thanks anyway.

Has the Op ever thought of having a vasectomy so he can be 100 percent sure of never being responsible for a possible 'abortion or not' scenario?

Some say women shouldn't abort but most men are happy to sleep with a woman and presume they have some kind of totally failsafe contraception. Until that problem is sorted out abortions will continue.

Also the op mentioned condoms, for some that is considered destroying life too.

Originally posted by thedigirati
James1982, I have a very very serious question for you...


Do YOU have a uterus?? If you do not have a uterus, your point is moot..


Let me ask you another serious question, have you or do you ever go over the speed limit??

if you have ever gone over the posted limit and say blow a tire you could kill folks, more folks then would be likely if you went the posted speed.

if you think either my first question or my analogy that follows is ridiculous, your "moral" high ground just dropped several meters.


Morally speaking, for me, male masturbation is killing MILLIONS of potential children ( except when I do it )

why the exception for myself? I am sterile, no sperm.

Oddly, there has never been a LAW against male masturbation.

No male has a dog in this fight, NONE, only women who can bear children can say one way or another, nor should males even be allowed to vote on it, only Women.


No one should be allowed to tell, let alone force someone else to do something with their bodies that they themselves cannot do.

this SHOULD be a LAW, but it's not.
You can express your opinion, but you should not be able to legislate for or against it.

Why should a woman be able to murder a child just because that child is inside her? A man should have no say in the murder of his child, simply because a woman is carrying it?

If I stick a newborn up my butt, since it's in my body does that make it OK for me to kill it?

The issue is, if the aborted fetus is it's own entity, it's own being, a woman's rights stop when the baby's rights begin. Just like my right to swing my fist ends right before it meets your face, a woman's right to do what she want with her body ends, when what she does with her body kills a baby.

By your logic, nobody should be able to tell ME what to do with MY body. So, with MY body I want to go around the streets murdering people. Are you OK with that? Because you say nobody should say what I do with MY body, I want to go round and punch and kick people, you have no right to tell me not to, right?

Originally posted by TokiTheDestroyer
Posts own opinions on abortion and then several examples with the sole intent of invoking an emotional reaction.

Please, not this thread again.

Ignorant poster who is unable to comprehend the subject matter and posts with the sole intent of accomplishing nothing at all

Please, not that post again

I've explained it at least 10 times, I'm not doing it again.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
it's simple.

leave it to the woman to decide

now get on with your life

Ok, since she can do whatever she wants with her body, why can't I?

I want to take my body, and punch a random person in the face. That's I should be able to do whatever I want with MY body, right? So why shouldn't I go around punching people?

Oh, because it effects other people you say? But a woman killing a child doesn't effect anyone else, other than the woman? It's not like there is a dead child being effected or anything.

How incredibly hypocritical.

If the baby was part of the woman's body, it would have her DNA. It doesnt. It has it's own unique DNA, as the baby is NOT the mother, it's simply inside the mother.

Originally posted by teapot
human life is devalued for it.

I see the pro-choice arguement as entirely hypocritcal in that it uses highly emotive language to deny the humanity of the life supported by the pregnancy. This neurolingual programming has negatively impacted modern society as it is an attack on maternity that far from freeing women from hardship service to the child, actually undermines and demotes motherhood to a function that exists outside of love.

Consider this; the natural maternal act is to protect and nurture whereas abortion seeks and destroys. Abortion is a very important part of the depopulation agenda and the pro choice movement is but a tool of the fat controllers who seek to enslave all humanity.

I totally agree here. Even though I am pro-choice, I cannot stand the hypocrisy used by other pro-choice people. People keep saying it's the woman's body.. no, it's not. It's a SEPARATE HUMAN BEING. The baby is NOT the woman, the baby is THE BABY, how anyone could ignore the rights of the unborn child is beyond me.

Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
Has the Op ever thought of having a vasectomy so he can be 100 percent sure of never being responsible for a possible 'abortion or not' scenario?

Some say women shouldn't abort but most men are happy to sleep with a woman and presume they have some kind of totally failsafe contraception. Until that problem is sorted out abortions will continue.

Also the op mentioned condoms, for some that is considered destroying life too.

What is your point?

I already stated I'd do anything and everything to support my child and my child's mother if I got a woman pregnant. As far as I know it hasn't happened yet, but if it did, I'd take care of it. That has zero bearing on this thread though.

I guess the twitter mentality has totally invaded ATS... very sad.

Originally posted by James1982
I am morally against abortion.

Fine, then how about you keep your morals to yourself, mind your own business, and let other people have their own morals.