Originally posted by Thundersmurf
I didn't read your enormous wall of text, sorry. Managed to pick up on a few of the things you were saying; some of quite odd like "feeding a
foetus to a cat or dog".
I'm not pro or anti abortion. I'm pro freedom. People should have the choice. Now, on to the question of whether or not an unborn child is a
person or not.....
The vast majority (approx 88%) of abortions take place in the first trimester of pregnancy. At this stage the baby can't survive, develop or exist
without the mother. It's attached to the mother and can't be independent of her so at this stage I say it's the mother's choice.
You speak as if everyone who gets an abortion is reckless with contraception, but only 8% of women who have abortions do not use any form of birth
What about all the fertilized eggs at IVF centres that are routinely thrown away?
It's an excellent topic for discussion, but at the end of the day I don't believe Government should be allowed to say yes/no to this.
4-4-2013 by Thundersmurf because: (no reason given)
Why is it odd to talk about feeding an aborted fetus to a dog? It's not a being, it's not a child, it's not a human, it's nothing but unwanted and
discarded cells from the woman's body, right? There should be nothing odd about it, if that's how you feel. And that's how you would have to feel
in order to say it's the woman's body.
That's why I brought that up. I'm trying to figure out why and when people consider a fetus a being, its own entity. Once it becomes its own entity,
the woman is NOT just controlling her own body, she is controlling the baby's body. She is in effect telling someone else what to do with THEIR body,
the same exact thing pro-abortionists claim pro-lifers are doing. Do you see the hypocrisy?
As far as the fetus being a non-entity because it cannot survive without the mother, that is true of newborn babies. If you left a newborn baby with
no care it would never survive on its own. It requires it's mothers nutrients and protection for quite some time after being born. If its reliance
upon its mother is the definition of being its own entity or not, then very young babies are still considered part of the mother's body.
I did not mean to imply that all women that get abortions are irresponsible. Using condoms and or birth control make one more responsible, but you
still know that there is a chance a pregnancy can result. If you are not ready to deal with the possible outcomes of your choices, that's being
I've used a condom nearly 100% of the time I've be involved with a woman, and even then I was still totally aware that there's a slight chance I
could impregnate her. If that were to happen, I wouldn't run out on her, I wouldn't abandon my child. When I make the choice to have sex with a
woman I also am making the choice to be responsible, and be present and supportive for both my child and my child's mother if she were to get
pregnant and have the child.
I don't see why that same standard isn't applied to women, that if they have sex they are not only making the choice to be involved with that man,
but that they are making the choice to support a child IF a child happens to result from that encounter.
Men are considered deadbeat dads if they abandon their children, yet women who abandon their child by having it aborted aren't stigmatized (well,
aren't stigmatized by pro-abortion people)
This still isn't even the topic of the thread, it's specifically about when a group of cells becomes an entity, its own being, it's own person.
You ask about fertilized eggs, in my OP I stated that I do not believe a few cells grouped together is a person, so a fertilized egg would not be a
person. I drew the line when a fetus has legs, arms, a nose, eyes, ears, etc. I realize it's a rather arbitrary line to draw, but that's what I want
people to explain, what is that line where it becomes an entity and not just a few parasitical cells inside the woman.
Deciding when a fetus becomes it's own being is the most important aspect of the abortion debate IMHO and often very neglected. Because once you
decide the fetus is it's own being, it then has rights, the right to not be killed and discarded. That is the point of this thread.
I do appreciate you putting more effort into your post, even if you didn't read the entire OP. I'm not a fan of the twitter mentality, when I want a
discussion, I have a discussion, not little sound bytes and fly-by comments. Which means my posts will be long, if you aren't interested enough to
read the whole post, then it isn't worth your (or my time) to respond in the first place. Just my opinion. I break my posts up into paragraphs, so it
shouldn't be difficult to read, it just requires your interest enough to put the effort forward.