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Adam/Eve Jesus and the tree of knowledge of good and Evil

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posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by bb23108
 


Yes. Very interesting observation of yours, as well. We have to get ourselves back to the garden.

Another part of the Adam and Eve story that makes me raise an eyebrow, is the fracturing of Adam's soul by God.

God made everything in 6 days and said it was good. Then he decided it was NOT good for man to be alone. He took Eve out of Adam, separating his masculine and feminine persona's, creating 2 bodies and 2 souls from one. Eve was a projection of a part of Adam the he no longer had "within" but was now "without".

The metaphor is that we are always looking to feel complete in someone else, looking for our other half.




posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


Exactly so we have a choice find love in marriage or find it from God. Each person will take a different path.
edit on 21-3-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by bb23108

Originally posted by windword
I have another theory.

If Jesus was indeed in the Garden of Eden, and I"m not convinced that he was, he was "The Tree of Life."


Genesis 2:8
In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Interesting...

In esoteric terms relative to the great centers in the body-mind, one could also look at the Tree of Life as being the vital center below the heart, associated with physical life - and the Tree of Knowledge being the mental center above the heart, associated with mind.

And furthermore, Jesus (or all encompassing love) is the whole Garden (the whole body-mind with the Source or heart at the center) in which these two "trees" arise.

When man wants to taste or exploit either of these two great regions (mind or body) apart from recognizing the Whole (the Heart or Truth or Jesus), then the split of the body-mind occurs, and the original wholeness of the body-mind (the Garden) becomes a war between two opposing sides - desire vs. knowledge, good vs. evil, head vs. body, male/female, etc., etc.
edit on 21-3-2013 by bb23108 because: (no reason given)


Yes exactly, I am glad that you showed the many examples of duality. I don't think all understand the concept.



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 





The bible says that truth is revealed by faith. Was the way I stated it presumptuous? Probably but I did tell you I was being light hearted. The theory belongs to the bible so in reality I am not presumptuous according to scripture.


Yes, you are coming across as very presumptuous. Your light hearted question actually came across as passive aggressive.



One must believe in and pursue God to find him. That being said, God is love, and love is definitely found in places other than the bible. So although I think from a scriptural standpoint what I say is true, from a philosophical standpoint we should be able to agree on those things that at least point to a loving God.


I gave the Bible God a chance for 20 something years. When I abandoned him and all hope of knowing him, I met the real GOD.

You don't have pursue God, or find God. Go isn't hiding or hidden. God is everywhere and everything. God is not only love.

You need to be careful with love as it can lead to gluttony, lust and self obsession. We need to temper life with reality and reality contains much more than love. Love isn't everything.



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by sacgamer25
 





The bible says that truth is revealed by faith. Was the way I stated it presumptuous? Probably but I did tell you I was being light hearted. The theory belongs to the bible so in reality I am not presumptuous according to scripture.


Yes, you are coming across as very presumptuous. Your light hearted question actually came across as passive aggressive.



One must believe in and pursue God to find him. That being said, God is love, and love is definitely found in places other than the bible. So although I think from a scriptural standpoint what I say is true, from a philosophical standpoint we should be able to agree on those things that at least point to a loving God.


I gave the Bible God a chance for 20 something years. When I abandoned him and all hope of knowing him, I met the real GOD.

You don't have pursue God, or find God. Go isn't hiding or hidden. God is everywhere and everything. God is not only love.

You need to be careful with love as it can lead to gluttony, lust and self obsession. We need to temper life with reality and reality contains much more than love. Love isn't everything.


I apologize for attacking you earlier. Thank you for pointing out how difficult it can be to understand someone on the other side of the screen. I must have sounded like a real prick.

You are correct, at the current time reality does offer all that you claim. But I foresee a different reality and so did the writers of the bible. They believed it possible for man to overcome all opposing forces to love. This is what they perceived as heaven, but they believed that somehow it was God's design to ultimately pull all men towards the only true power, love, here on earth as in heaven. Everything opposed to love drags us down closer to hell, but love provides power.

What limits are there to the power of love? For man to know we must choose to evolve to the state of love. Where the whole come together as one Christ. We are all the body of Love/Christ, everyone.

Simply because you cannot foresee this possibility why deny me its plausibility? Is there anything more compelling that I should pursue?
edit on 21-3-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 





You are correct, at the current time reality does offer all that you claim. But I foresee a different reality and so did the writers of the bible. They believed it possible for man to overcome all opposing forces to love. This is what they perceived as heaven, but they believed that somehow it was God's design to ultimately pull all men towards the only true power, love, here on earth as in heaven.


The Bible is flawed. It's God is flawed and so is his plan. The story of the Garden of Eden is a good example of a flawed God. The flood is another example. Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah, all the warring and killing are all examples that this is a flawed God with a flawed plan.


Everything opposed to love drags us down closer to hell, but love provides power.


I know of nothing or no one that is opposed to love. But there are people who's love is bent and focused in a way that creates pain. Some people love pain, and believe that love is painful. Some people love the adreneline rush that love can offer, but can't do the hard work that comes from a relationship.


What limits are there to the power of love? For man to know we must choose to evolve to the state of love. Where the whole come together as one Christ. We are all the body of Love/Christ, everyone. Simply because you cannot foresee this possibility why deny me its plausibility? Is there anything more compelling that I should pursue?


Perhaps mankind has one great soul that is regrouping, and that soul may be called "Christ" or "The Son of Man". But that soul is not in unity now, it's fractured. "Christ" won't happen until everyone is of one mind of unity.

I don't deny you your epiphany on love. But, you remind me of myself after having ingested illegal, mind altering substances while wearing bright yellow flowered bell bottom pants and a Neru jacket, driving around in this



You have to realize that God doesn't need or want anything from you. Where God is there is no need or want.



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Jesus came to earth to keep the law given to moses by God to bridge man back to God. That was the reason he became flesh. I am not disputing all this love stuff you are talking about.. but that was his main purpose here.

The whole purpose of life is to find your way back to God. In the OT you could do this by keeping the law but that was impossible. That is why he sent jesus to keep the law for us.

edit on 21-3-2013 by votan because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


"Jesus did not somehow become sinless by pursuit of love. Jesus was sinless to start with, and remained in that condition by not being selfish. " unquote

it does not read like he was sinless. he mentions that we should overcome just as he has overcome. so it took him awhile to overcome all obstacles to his divine stature. and we should do the same. i believe our sun is always shining, we just need to remove the dark clouds.



posted on Mar, 22 2013 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by bb23108
 

We have to get ourselves back to the garden.
...
The metaphor is that we are always looking to feel complete in someone else, looking for our other half.

Right. And the childish pursuit to look for love without learning to love first, and the adolescent reaction to separate when feeling unlove - both tending to result in feeling betrayed and justified in our unlove.

The metaphor symbolizes the constant search for union to feel beyond the pain of non-union. This is what the separation of the mind from the heart and the body from the heart triggers.This constant drive for unity whether it be with our other "half", the Divine, or some object that promises happiness.

We grow up when we simply searchlessly love - when the body-mind is understood to be whole, its energies not in conflict, but in prior unity with the Divine.Then we do not need to depend on another for our happiness because our happiness is inherent and Uncaused. Then we can truly love another - but never dependent on another in order to love or feel happy.

To search for our so-called other half for our happiness is the curse of a body-mind that has been fractured from the spirit and inherent happiness that connects all the parts into the whole garden again.
edit on 22-3-2013 by bb23108 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2013 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by votan
 

The whole purpose of life is to find your way back to God.
We should be like God.
I think the 'purpose' is built into it, life is for living and the best way of living is for people to get along and help each other.

In the OT you could do this by keeping the law but that was impossible.
"The Law' was a way of belonging to a society created on a principle of holiness. f you were holy, you were 'in'. If not, then you were cast out. It made a lot of people deluded into thinking they were holy.

That is why he sent jesus to keep the law for us.
Jesus was killed by people who considered themselves holy according to the law.
Jesus proved that system of considering yourself holy was flawed.



posted on Mar, 22 2013 @ 01:40 AM
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reply to post by orangutang
 

it does not read like he was sinless. he mentions that we should overcome just as he has overcome. so it took him awhile to overcome all obstacles to his divine stature. and we should do the same. i believe our sun is always shining, we just need to remove the dark clouds.
Jesus overcame temptation.
He wasn't overcoming anything internal.
Jesus said there are obstacles. I think that is a philosophical term that describes the nature of the universe.
It isn't always just us, but what we live in.
It is, in my opinion, a hazardous environment.



posted on Mar, 22 2013 @ 08:25 AM
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Originally posted by votan
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Jesus came to earth to keep the law given to moses by God to bridge man back to God. That was the reason he became flesh. I am not disputing all this love stuff you are talking about.. but that was his main purpose here.

The whole purpose of life is to find your way back to God. In the OT you could do this by keeping the law but that was impossible. That is why he sent jesus to keep the law for us.

edit on 21-3-2013 by votan because: (no reason given)



What you say is correct, but the truth is much more amazing than what you say. Christ is the bridge, the promise of immortality and the resurrection. In 1 John4:8 the bible says God is love. If you read through the Gospels it reads as a guide to how to love one another. To serve, rather than to be served. The true king will always consider himself a servant to his people/family/friends and even enemies.

You said the whole purpose is to find your way back to God. This sounds like a very complicated problem, which is why we have so many different views even inside of the same religions. Each religion is guilty of having sects that have contrary beliefs even though they are believing the words out of the same book.

Jesus came to teach that "God is Love", maybe God is much more than love, I will leave that for each to decide. But Jesus Cleary states the only way to find God is through love/righteousness. This is why he teaches to believe that "God is Love". So that we understand how to pursue God. If you believe that you cannot find love apart from God and that all love is from God, then you have the basis for finding God.

Love always obeys God's law because the whole law is in place due to the transgressions against love.

This is what Jesus meant by saying he did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it so that we may learn to do the same. Jesus is not a license to break the law, nor does he ever suggest we should or even have to break the law. What he is suggesting is we "ALWAYS" have the chance to choose love, if we do than we shall never break the law, even if we are unaware of what the law says. You see the law has not been done away with. But the one who follows love completely will obey the law completely.

He nailed the law to the cross wich represents his love for us, that he suffered the penalty of death to save us from our sin. The promise is "God is love", "Love keeps no record of wrong doing", Turn to love and you will be saved. This is the very definition of "GRACE", God's unconditional love for you. God's love is unconditional but you must obey love if you wish to "FEEL" the love of God within.
edit on 22-3-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2013 @ 09:11 AM
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reply to post by windword
 


What you call flaws, I accept as perfection. I trust that God is 100% in control and always have been. Every mistake that you claim God makes I claim is part of the refinement process of your soul.

You say you know nothing or no one opposed to love. We have been at war for at least the past 2000 years. Anger, Rage, Violence, Sexual Assault, Murder. Do you live somewhere that none of these things happen.?

It is possible for what is against love to also be necessary, to believe that God is prefect than you must even except that it is not only possible but it to is perfect. So although what is against love is necessary, it is not necessary for you to go against love. We all have the option and obligation to choose love at all times. But we don't, we choose things that are against love every day.

There is a difference between "Drug induced love" and real love. Drug induced love is often a euphoric feeling bound by no rules. Real love obey's rules by understanding the logic and reason behind those rules. "Drug induced love" is often overly sexual in nature. Real love transcends the need for a sexual relationship.

Although If I had to choose between the world of today and the world of the 60's I would gladly go back in time with you. At least they believed that peace was possible. And not only possible but the only possibility worth "sitting down" for.



posted on Mar, 22 2013 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 



Every mistake that you claim God makes I claim is part of the refinement process of your soul.


And I claim you are a biased witness and therefore your testimony is inadmissible in the court of critical analysis, unless you are able to provide an objective case that conclusively and exclusively validates your statement.



posted on Mar, 22 2013 @ 10:28 AM
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An interesting fact about the bible is that it is a parable in itself just like a parable of Jesus, which relates to a metaphor. This is something that should not be overlooked, and I know very faithful people can overlook this, but it is true.



posted on Mar, 22 2013 @ 10:44 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 





You say you know nothing or no one opposed to love. We have been at war for at least the past 2000 years. Anger, Rage, Violence, Sexual Assault, Murder. Do you live somewhere that none of these things happen.?


All these things, that you have listed, are attributes and actions that were either committed by or ordered by the God of the Old Testament. This "god" may as well have been auditioning for the part of the "wicked one" that Jesus talked about.

But, even so, you assert that God (the god of the Old Testament) is love, so then, these acts must have been committed out of love, by your logic. And, you would be correct in a sense. All acts of depravity come from a aberration of love. Bent love of self reaps lust, greed, gluttony and self obsession. But it all stems from love.



There is a difference between "Drug induced love" and real love. Drug induced love is often a euphoric feeling bound by no rules. Real love obey's rules by understanding the logic and reason behind those rules. "Drug induced love" is often overly sexual in nature. Real love transcends the need for a sexual relationship.


Love is a chemical reaction whether drug induced or hormonally induced. Additionally, shaman of all religions have used natural substances to "see the gods." Mushrooms, peyote, Ayahuasca, et al, have been used in religious rituals of mysticism since the beginning. BTW, they aren't forbidden in the Bible. Jesus fasted for 40 days. You've got to think that that would effect his perception and induce visions.



posted on Mar, 22 2013 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

He nailed the law to the cross wich represents his love for us, that he suffered the penalty of death to save us from our sin.
Doesn't "nailed the law to the cross" mean something about the law?
Didn't something happen to the law, if even in a metaphorical sense?
Jesus didn't deserve to be put to death, because he never committed a sin to be guilty of.
Or did he?
According to the law, if you go against the leader, then you would get killed, and in a mean sort of way, as described in the 'historical' parts, like when Moses commanded the people to take swords and kill their friends and neighbors and relatives.
Or when the earth opened up and the 'rebels' were taken to hell alive.
If Jesus was a prophet, and he disagreed with what Moses had said, then he was to be considered a false prophet and be put to death.
The leaders of the Jews killed Jesus as ordered by the law.
Jesus was the innocent lamb without blemish who was sacrificed to demonstrate the outmoded nature of what passed for the law when Jesus came onto the scene.
When Jesus was crucified, so was the law, along with him.
We no longer keep the old written law, but the spiritual law of Jesus that God puts on our hearts.
edit on 22-3-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 22 2013 @ 03:14 PM
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Originally posted by sacgamer25
reply to post by mideast
 


The tree is the knowledge of Good and Evil. The tree could have been an apple tree, the metaphor is far more important here. If you look at the description of Eden it could be assumed that at least on a subconscious level ADAM had knowledge of good, and therefore he knew that breaking the command was at least against what is good.

It is not until one does wrong or someone does wrong to them that they truly begin to understand evil. So simply disobeying revealed to ADAM the knowledge of Evil, which is why they became ashamed to be naked in God's presence.

Being naked in God's presence alone is not evil, but that they now recognized the evil that can come from being naked, lust.


You say we should experience every thing to learn what is good ? Did Jesus pbuh tell us that we should do that ? Or it is a lesson for us to be aware ? Do we have time to experience till we die ?



Everything happens by the will of God, meaning God put a test in front of them that they were designed to fail. He knew what they would do but yet tested them anyway. Why would God create something that he was only going to hate? God is love and it was his intention that by giving us this knowledge we could become like him. We were made to be like him, this is what is promised in the bible.


God knows everything , but it seems hard to believe that we have free will.

Why ?

Because we have justified many wrong behaviors by the scape from free will.

It is a little complicated.



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by mideast
 


Either "God" exists in full Biblical capacity, or free will does. Not both.



posted on Mar, 24 2013 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by windword
Love is a chemical reaction whether drug induced or hormonally induced.
I guess this depends on what you define love to be. Typically we think of love as feeling very connected to someone and feeling very good about that connection. So when a couple get together and go through the honeymoon phase, lots of pheromones are released and it is very bonding, exciting, and stimulating - and people say they feel love. Similarly when people use certain substances, such feelings can be induced.

But when such feelings disappear, people often say they no longer feel the love and want to break up or whatever. So is that real love? Of course, people can vow to stay together through thick and thin and that can be very honorable, and may even be based on real love.

In my experience, real love awakens when there is the recognition that we all arise in an apparently infinite field of relatedness - and we notice and feel that prior unity (real love) is the essence or ground of our lives together. Prior unity (non-separation) is the means for awakening love because we are inherently (already) connected in deep feeling. Real intimacy is based on this feeling understanding of our inherent non-separation.

It seems to me that Jesus' core commandments, to love God fully and our neighbor as oneself, are not about hormonal or drug-induced love, but about feeling recognition of our essential communion with God and also our inherent non-separation from all others (prior unity).
edit on 24-3-2013 by bb23108 because: (no reason given)





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