Adam/Eve Jesus and the tree of knowledge of good and Evil

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posted on Mar, 20 2013 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 





This question is more for fun than anything. Don't you find yourself a little presumptuous telling me what a book that you don't believe in says? I mean from a spiritual standpoint wouldn't it be hard to understand something that you don't believe to be true? After all you are not even looking to see if it could be true anymore. Sorry just had to point that out for a little fun.


First of all, I was raised in a Pentecostal home, where the Bible was taken literally and studied from cover to cover 7 days a week. In addition to attending 3 Sunday services, Sunday school included, Tuesday night bible studies, Wednesday night choir practice, Friday night Youth Group and Jesus Camp during the summers. I was indoctrinated HARD!

It took a lot of soul searching, studying and introspective meditation to get to where I am in regards to believing in the Bible and the Gods it presents.

Let me ask you this. Don't you find yourself a little presumptuous to think that one must believe the Bible to be true in order to study it and discuss it?



The tree is the knowledge of Good and Evil. The tree could have been an apple tree, the metaphor is far more important here. If you look at the description of Eden it could be assumed that at least on a subconscious level ADAM had knowledge of good, and therefore he knew that breaking the command was at least against what is good.


Having never tasted the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve couldn't have understood what was "against what is good." They didn't know good and they didn't know evil.



Being naked in God's presence alone is not evil, but that they now recognized the evil that can come from being naked, lust.


Adam and Eve were never accused of lust. They were married, right? They were allowed to enjoy each other, I suppose. They were supposed to be fruitful and multiply, were they not? Where in the heck do you get lust from this story?



Everything happens by the will of God, meaning God put a test in front of them that they were designed to fail. He knew what they would do but yet tested them anyway. Why would God create something that he was only going to hate? God is love and it was his intention that by giving us this knowledge we could become like him. We were made to be like him, this is what is promised in the bible.


This is you apologizing for God and explaining what he really meant to say in the book of Genesis. The God of the Old Testament never claimed to be a God of Love! It just isn't there.

God never promised to make us like him. He punished those who thought so with death and curses. If this were not so, why was Jesus accused of blasphemy?



The belief in a trinity was not something established by a committee, but something integral to Christianity since its inception.


If this were true, don't you think Jesus would have taught it? Wouldn't Jesus have taught "We are the way."?

In fact, Jesus was the opposite of the God of the OT. OT God promised death while Jesus promised life.




edit on 20-3-2013 by windword because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 20 2013 @ 08:02 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

The one who discards some of the book as lies and thus is required to go to other books to find the truth?
Or the person who believes that every word is the truth and trust the promise that the Holy Spirit will come to me and teach me all things?

Since you have discarded much of the book as corrupted it is impossible for you to reconcile all scripture to the truth, it is because of this that you have created your own truth that is sufficient for you.

My truth is the bible, inspired and protected by the father so that we may have the truth in its entirety. Since I know God is love and my understanding points to a loving father, I will have to stick to what I believe.
I think you need some kind of reality check.
You are drawing a lot of conclusions about me and judging me, then lifting yourself up to an exalted status.
Unless you actually wrote the Bible, I don't think you understand it.
And even then, the people who actually did write it never made that claim.
You seem to be using a book as a sort of stepladder to put yourself above the Prophets and the Apostles and Jesus and God.
My advice for you would be to actually read some of the books I recommend, and to start to get a grasp of the complexity and difficulty that even the best scholars in the world have with the Bible, and these are not stupid or evil or unbelieving people I'm talking about.
How is it that you are somehow the most gifted person who has ever walked the face of the Earth?
Can you answer that question for me?
Why did God pick you above all other humans who are on Earth or ever were, to have the full indwelling of all knowledge of the entire universe?

God simply reveals the scripture to me so that I may understand. This is what the bible says will happen if one has faith.
OK, this seems to be your explanation. Of course I already registered my argument against this, so I don't think this is in the Bible, as you state.
We are given the spirit to guide us into a better life, and to comfort us and to be our advocate. I don't think there is a promise in there that if you only believe, God will make you 'understand' the Bible.
edit on 20-3-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2013 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 




1 John 2:26-27 26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

1 Corinthians 2:10 "But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God."

John 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I have said to you."

JOHN 16:13 "However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, he will guide you unto all truth ..."


I promise I do know what I sound like, but I don't really know how to sound any other way. I truly believe in the passages above, and believe the Holy Spirit is in me and is teaching me all things. I believe that I have been given all of the gifts in the NT and possibly could even manage to heal someone if I could just get over the hurdle of disbelief.

You see I know with 100% certainty that God could use me to heal the sick, but I have yet to have the faith to do it. I am afraid of this gift for precisely the reasons you already accuse me of. How can a man have the wisdom of God and the power to heal, without becoming self-righteous? It is because of this and my disbelief that I don't even attempt to heal someone. Because if someone is healed, then I can no longer deny why I am here.

I am a man who believes the bible in its entirety and believes the Holy Spirit has delivered interpretation based upon the promises made to those who believe. How can I remain humble in voice? I believed God that is it; I did nothing else to deserve this. I fully believe than anyone could receive what I have.

This statement is all I have to offer you, but I do not consider myself above you, if anything I was sent to serve you, because without Grace I would have been useless to you anyway.

This is why I ask, what do I say that is against Christ? If anyone could prove me against Christ or the interpretation in my head is against Christ I would be proven to not be what the bible appears to label me. I prayed to be a teacher, I did not realize that would make me something more. I simply knew I wanted to help others so I prayed for the most loving gift that my faith would allow.

I don't even expect you to believe me, but that doesn't make it any less the truth. My family believes me and for now that will keep me pushing forward.



posted on Mar, 20 2013 @ 09:11 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


The bible says that truth is revealed by faith. Was the way I stated it presumptuous? Probably but I did tell you I was being light hearted. The theory belongs to the bible so in reality I am not presumptuous according to scripture.



1 Corinthians 2:10 "But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God."


One must believe in and pursue God to find him. That being said, God is love, and love is definitely found in places other than the bible. So although I think from a scriptural standpoint what I say is true, from a philosophical standpoint we should be able to agree on those things that at least point to a loving God.

Lust would be the only sin associate with nudity. They believed their nudity was sin, therefore it must be due to the knowledge of sin that they had received upon eating from the tree. What other reason would there be to be ashamed of nudity?. Children are not ashamed of nudity until they understand the concept of sexuality. I wasn't accusing them of committing the sin of lust simply implying they became aware of the sin.

To say they didn't know good is as much of an assumption as saying they did. Push


The bible calls both Jesus and God light. Jesus did not have any issue being compared to God. Jesus said we should become like him. If Jesus is like God, and we are to be like Jesus, than are we not to be like God? He is our father according to the bible so would he not want his children to grow up to be like him?

What you are worried about, no longer is a worry when you accept that God is love. You are worried that I am condoning the new age BS that we can become Jesus/God. But if you can understand that God is love then we are also to become love. So although we will always be subject to the perfect love of the father, we can become love like him.



posted on Mar, 20 2013 @ 09:48 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

1 John 2:26-27 26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.
John is saying, There are these people going around saying that to have eternal life, you need to 'know' things. These would be people we think of today as Gnostics.
John is saying, You have the spirit given to you from God, that is what you need to know, which is that it abides in you, and you abide in him (Jesus).
It isn't some declaration of a principle that if you have a special anointing, you will know everything.
For someone who supposedly 'understands' everything about the Bible, you don't seem to know anything about the context that you pluck your little gems of 'knowledge' out of.



posted on Mar, 20 2013 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

1 Corinthians 2:10 "But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God."
Here Paul is talking about wisdom and he means it as a sort of appreciation of what has happened, namely Jesus and his death on the cross.
It's not so much a knowing of 'things', so much as a seeing of things in a way that can be only properly appreciated with the help of God's spirit, where merely knowing the facts does you no good at all.
And when he is talking about "we", he means him and his associates who are preaching the Gospel, and the same with the earlier quote from 1 John, where it is saying, We already taught you what you need to know, here Paul is doing the same thing, saying his preaching group has told you what you need to know, appreciate that, and don't look to other people outside our group who are telling you that you need to know whatever they are offering.

John 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I have said to you."
Unless you were one of Jesus' disciples, then this does not apply directly to you, same with the next verse you listed which I already went over.
edit on 20-3-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2013 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

the Holy Spirit is in me and is teaching me all things.
That is your mind in overdrive because you have set yourself up to go into manic mode, convincing yourself that you need to 'understand' the Bible, maybe because of your lack of understanding the things you think are promises and turning them into mandates that if you are 'saved' then you have to have all these wonderful inspired thoughts that 'must' be true.
You have placed yourself in a very unhealthy situation by creating a syndrome you have convinced yourself is 'the spirit'.
Eventually you will either have a complete break from reality if you haven't already, or you will fall into a mental collapse after draining your powers of self delusion through too long of a self-exposure to this unsustainable mania.
edit on 20-3-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 20 2013 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Funny, that is exactly what the bible said some would say. When told God is love some people actually refuse it. I don't know why you refuse it and if I'm crazy for believing it so be it.

Believing that God is love is by no means a burden; the burden was learning how he couldn't possibly be anything less.

Imagine we are in the matrix you have a red pill and a blue pill.

Take the red pill and wake back up right where you are.

Take the blue pill AKA the "love God Pill" and well you find love. But with love comes wisdom, with wisdom comes joy, with joy comes service, through service you become a son of God. A son of God cannot die because no one has authority over the son that was not given by the father. This is what my brother Jesus said. I may never be exactly like Christ but I will be love like I was called to be. And that will be enough for me.

The choice is yours, believe what you want. My job is only to share my testimony and pray that all would turn from sin/indifference/addiction so that love may heal them.



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 12:01 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

Funny, that is exactly what the bible said some would say.
I think you have a quantity vs. quality situation with your methodology of Bible 'study' where you have a lot of these fragmentary snippets of texts all jumbled up in your head and your mind is connecting them because this is what it has to work with since you are starving it of actual useful knowledge.
You should, I would suggest, try to understand one part before moving onto another.
What you seem to be doing is taking the whole Bible in one bite and understanding none of it.
How is what I said "exactly" what the Bible said.
That is delusional.
You need to calm down and realize the fate of mankind does not rest in your hands and the universe will not collapse while you take the time to read a book that is actual biblical scholarship.
In the long run it will give you something useful that doesn't sound like ravings.
You're not actually 'studying'.
What you are doing is letting your imagination run wild as you listen to the Bible being read.
edit on 21-3-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Mathew 5:11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 08:08 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

Mathew 5:11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.
Do you really think I am 'persecuting' you because of Jesus?
I'm supporting Jesus myself so why would I be opposing you because of that?
I'm actually trying to be careful to not insult you while pointing out what I think you are missing, apparently being too close and locked into it to get an objective view of what you are putting yourself through.
I know what it is like because I've gone through the same thing, where you are so desperate to understand everything.
You aren't understanding anything because there is no way, the way you are going about it.
Rather you are more just rewriting the Bible as you can understand it, so you end up in the opposite place than what you were aiming at in the beginning.
You have to meet the Bible where it lays, where it was and who it was about, when it was written.
You can't bend it to your own circumstances and uses to try to get meaning out of it, that way only produces a work of your own invention which is of course by definition, useless.



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 10:00 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 



Imagine we are in the matrix you have a red pill and a blue pill.

Take the red pill and wake back up right where you are.

Take the blue pill AKA the "love God Pill" and well you find love. But with love comes wisdom, with wisdom comes joy, with joy comes service, through service you become a son of God. A son of God cannot die because no one has authority over the son that was not given by the father. This is what my brother Jesus said. I may never be exactly like Christ but I will be love like I was called to be. And that will be enough for me.


The blue pill is for those who choose to remain asleep, ignorant, unaware. You are saying those who choose to believe "God" is love are those who choose to remain ignorant.



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 12:02 PM
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I am a little annoyed when I read this discussion and frankly have gone to the place where I think why are they arguing about this when they could do other stuff.

Sacgamer25 if you have the spirit in you then follow the synchronicity around you (the mysterious ways that people are to preoccupied to notice). There will be other souls here that do not see what is like you do and some of them are not meant to. Some are supposed to have a very different view than you. There are people all over this planet that know god from all different views. There are thing in the bible that is interesting but that exist in Buddhism and Bhagavad Gita also.

God has a special plan for all souls but one soul at it's time and at the level of understanding both the soul and god is comfortable with.



Sacgamer25 you might not like my views. But if you have taken responsability for you actions then you are from my point of view today my soul brother no matter how you think about what is.
edit on 21-3-2013 by LittleByLittle because: Spellchecking



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 12:11 PM
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reply to post by LittleByLittle
 

. . . why are they arguing about this . . .
People can listen to a recording of someone reading the Bible, then use it as a sort of meditation tool to launch themselves off into little realms of private ecstasy.
That's all well and good.
They can even come on a religion forum and write about their wonderful revelations about how the universe works.
That's fine too, as far as I am concerned.
My problem comes in when the author of such tales makes the claim that it is all based on the Bible.
Maybe his experience started whilst listening to the Bible, but that is a long way from the claim.
I would never bother anyone who added the disclaimer to their ramblings by stating that it is not really anything taught by the Bible, but something one could imagine when they add completely invented meanings to what they only think the Bible is maybe saying.
edit on 21-3-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Who are you to say that your imagined interpretation of a work of historical fiction is better than another's imagined interpretation of a work of historical fiction?



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Mathew 5:11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me.

You literally called me crazy and told me to seek help. I am not crazy and I do not need help. This is why I posted that verse. If you cannot see that calling someone who is trying to spread love is hurtful than the verse applies to you. If you can see that it is at least possible that I am not lying when I say I am not crazy than the verse would not apply to you.

You have no real foundation for you claim other than you simply cannot understand what I am saying. Or you simply choose to believe that anyone who thinks like me must be crazy.

I am not putting words in your mouth or accusing you of doing anything that you did not do. I have merely stated my testimony and you attacked my sanity. With each rebuttal your attacks grow. I am not attacking you, why are you attacking me? I am only here to share love with people. I can't share love with someone who refuses it.

Understand this question. I am not going to ask you to agree just ask if you to understand the question.

If God is love and I am what I say I am have you not insulted me and said false things against me?

Even if I was wrong, why would insanity that drives a man to love bother you so much that you think you need to change me? I am quite happy with an endless pursuit of love, I am not looking to change, and the change I was looking for has already come to me.



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 01:47 PM
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reply to post by LittleByLittle
 


Little by little, I agree in philosophy on practically everything you say.
Let me ask you this?

If God gave you some wisdom and an interpretation of the bible that changes the entire scope of religion to the truth. A truth so profound that if believed eliminates all separation caused by religion. Eliminates the need, want or desire for any man to judge anyone except maybe himself. If you believed in this truth so much that you actually believed that revealing this truth could save the world.

What would you do with that Wisdom?

Would you share it with the world or keep it to yourself?

If somebody's disbelief was going to be bad for them, simply because they remain separated by dogma and you believed that you had a simple truth that could eliminate that separation would you keep it to yourself?

If you knew that everyone had the potential to understand their purpose in life and be driven by it would you keep that to yourself?

You see I am making the claim that I have been given all of this, and that the bible actually confirms everything I say so that no one can rightfully accuse me of coming up with any of this on my own. It is only because everything that has been revealed to me has been revealed through scripture, that I can remain humble.

Believe what you want but I think I have expressed myself enough to answer your question.


I love that song, its one of mine and my little girls favorites.
edit on 21-3-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by windword
I have another theory.

If Jesus was indeed in the Garden of Eden, and I"m not convinced that he was, he was "The Tree of Life."


Genesis 2:8
In the middle of the garden were the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Interesting...

In esoteric terms relative to the great centers in the body-mind, one could also look at the Tree of Life as being the vital center below the heart, associated with physical life - and the Tree of Knowledge being the mental center above the heart, associated with mind.

And furthermore, Jesus (or all encompassing love) is the whole Garden (the whole body-mind with the Source or heart at the center) in which these two "trees" arise.

When man wants to taste or exploit either of these two great regions (mind or body) apart from recognizing the Whole (the Heart or Truth or Jesus), then the split of the body-mind occurs, and the original wholeness of the body-mind (the Garden) becomes a war between two opposing sides - desire vs. knowledge, good vs. evil, head vs. body, male/female, etc., etc.
edit on 21-3-2013 by bb23108 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

Who are you to say that your imagined interpretation of a work of historical fiction is better than another's imagined interpretation of a work of historical fiction?
I get your attempt at being humorous.
The difference, I would say, Is that I read commentaries, and other books, on the subject so that I know there is some solid research to serve as a grounding to base my rhetoric.
I don't understand why so many people might find doing that peculiar. I imagine that people are afraid because if they looked behind the curtain, they would maybe loose their faith.
Even the 'great' Oz, though he was essentially a fraud, did have scientific knowledge that he had to use to pull it off.
Rather than emulating the tricksterish techniques of the preacher/salesmen, learn the science that they should have been applying in a more honest but less lucrative type of presentation.
* my attempt at making an analogy
edit on 21-3-2013 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 21 2013 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

You literally called me crazy and told me to seek help.
No I didn't, and stop trying to get me banned.
I'm tying to help you myself.
I don't see this attitude of yours being 'loving',
How about practicing what you preach?





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