Hugo Chavez: The War On Demcracy

I can't figure out what's more alarming. The ignorance or the lack of critical thinking. Those of you who would bemoan the state of the Venezuelan economy: you do realize that when a leader such as Castro or Chavez (or Iran or anyone) refuses to play ball with the ruling oligarchy their countries are then purposefully crippled via the use of international economic sanctions right?

It's not like you can say you are going to do things your way and the west will tip their hats and say "Goodbye, and Good Luck." If you don't get on your knees to the central banks and the ultra-wealthy elite they will do their damndest to starve your people, and destroy your country.

Considering the fascists their up against, I'd say Cuba and Venezuela have done remarkably well. Especially Cuba, for so damn long.

If the west was more "live and let live" and less "my way or die on the highway" I'm sure the economies of these two countries would be much more prosperous.

reply to post by Malynn


Never really thought of that. I guess the impact of the Western governments (still not sure why it's called that) has a lot more weight than I thought. The reason Cuba and Venezuela are almost in shambles is because they wouldn't play our game so we make them a near third world country.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by rock427

 

What about the OAS then they to said the elections were fair. At least back up your claims with facts and not personal opinion.

The elections were fair you may not like that but the people who voted did.

Do me a favor and read up about those organizations

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

edit on 6-3-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)

Transparency International ranked Venezuala as the most corrupt nation in the Hemisphere, and one of the most corrupt nations on the planet.. Hugo Chavez stole $2 billion from his own people during his 15 year reign....And you people are adoring the guy? People in Venezuala starved while this man continued to line his pockets from the oil profits his oil rich nation had acquired. $400 Billion of Venezuelan capital (much of it from oil profits) fled to offshore banks during Mr. Chavez' tenure. The guy didn't help Venezuela, he continued to misallocate funds while lining his pockets, and his friends pockets, the money that should have went back toward building up Venezuelan infrastructure.

And Carter has been, and always will be, a joke.

reply to post by rock427


Again back up stuff with fact.
It doesn't matter If you do not like his way of government but the people voted and they voted for him...are you against democracy?

reply to post by rock427


Transparency International?

*Googles*

Oh, an organization started by Peter Eigen from the World Bank, who is married to a German social-democrat candidate for president. While his intentions with the organization are probably noble it's not outside the realm of possibility that it views the world through Central Bank colored glasses, considering he's a bank guy.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by rock427

 

Again back up stuff with fact.
It doesn't matter If you do not like his way of government but the people voted and they voted for him...are you against democracy?

I'm not 'hiding' information, I just expected you to be able to use Google on your own. Transparency International has Venezuela ranked as the most corrupt nation in this Hemisphere; as well as one of the most corrupt nations in the world.

cpi.transparency.org...
cpi.transparency.org...

As for Carter, he is nearly 90 years old, and he has not aged well at all. He is known well in the US for saying outrageously stupid things. Additionally, his presidency is widely regarded as one of the worst in our nations history. No thanks Jeff.

reply to post by rock427


OMG Carter founded it he isn't the one checking personally
The facts are he was voted in by the people fair and square how many times do I have to say it?
You said in this thread he rigged the elections which he didn't makes you either just wrong or a liar.

reply to post by Malynn


Not everything needs to be a conspiracy. If that is the way this debate is to proceed, we're probably better off just leaving it as it is. Hugo Chavez was not some martyr that you people blindly make him out to be. He was in fact quite corrupt. He siphoned billions away from the Venezuelan people to pay himself and his cronies. All I'm saying is lets not pretend the guy wasn't a dictator...

Originally posted by Malynn
reply to post by rock427

 

Transparency International?

*Googles*

Oh, an organization started by Peter Eigen from the World Bank, who is married to a German social-democrat candidate for president. While his intentions with the organization are probably noble it's not outside the realm of possibility that it views the world through Central Bank colored glasses, considering he's a bank guy.

Not only that, but Chavez did not want to play with that organization at all. So when Transparency Int. gets the middle finger by Venezuela then it automatically ranks Venezuela as - first place, not transparent at all

This is just getting ridiculous.

"Transparency International", founded by a banker. ROFL, It doesn't get any better

reply to post by rock427


Who said everything was a conspiracy? Creating an organization and slapping the name "Transparency International" on it does not make it an authority on Transparency. I could create an orgnanization called Arbiter of Truth and I still wouldn't be the Arbiter of Truth.

I don't see anyone submitting Chavez for saint-hood. In fact in one of my posts in this thread I said:

"There is no man or woman in power who is a saint or without sin".

What I do see in this thread are people offering their condolences and admiration for a leader who stood up for his people. I also see a lot of hyperbole from people incapable of thinking outside of the Dogma of the oligarchy, and twisting themselves into knots because others don't share their programming.

Yes, all the Socialists and the downtrodden proletariat love Chavez, just like they love Obama. When I saw the thread title I read it as Hugo Chavez (was) a threat to Democracy. Then I read the OP and realized the OP was quoting a Progressive filmaker who clearly hates the US. It has just never occurred to him that Chavez himself was to blame for many of the ills of the region. Progressives like to use the word Democracy to describe their Socialist Utopias, but the reality is that Democratic Socialism is authoritarian Nanny Statism and tyranny. As long as poor people get the scraps off the table of the wealthy elite they are happy to support their dictators.

What I do see in this thread are people offering their condolences and admiration for a leader who stood up for his people

reply to post by Malynn



That's if you see the socializing of private industry as standing up for the people. Only Socialists believe that, but it is an erroneous concept, especially with today's Big Governments skimming the resources from the top of all the citizens and businesses. Socialism is a lie and a cancer and always has been. Socialism has and always will be a tyranny against freedom and tyranny and the right of individuals to make decisions for themselves.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Funny that the most happy people on the planet are under socialist or elements of socialist governments.

current.com...

I think you are getting communist and socialist mixed up.

I can see through the crap and I can tell you without a doubt that If Canada had a Hugo our gas for cars and gas for houses would be much cheaper than it is now.

With our Countries resources we should be around 20 cents a liter or less, not so and never will be in my humble opinion only.

Right now its $1.29 per litre and that is for regular and that is as cheap as it has been for ages.

About $5.00 per gallon for you americans.


The guy was very people related but not too nice to the Rocks of the planet.....(The Ego bastards)

I Rue the day Canada went free trade and sold our Country out.
Hugo did the opposite.

Regards, Iwinder

S&F

reply to post by boymonkey74


It is known that the crime rate in Venezuela is quite high, and the highest levels of crime is among the poor there. So evidently they are not all happy in that region.

Chávez presided over a political epoch flush with money and lorded over a society riven by fear, deep political divisions, and ultraviolence. Consider the latest crime statistics from Observatorio Venezolano de la Violencia, which reckons that 2012 saw an astonishing 21,692 murders in the country—in a population of 29 million. Last year, I accompanied a Venezuelan journalist on his morning rounds at Caracas’s only morgue to count the previous night’s murders. As the number of dead ballooned, the Chávez regime simply stopped releasing murder statistics to the media.

The Guardian’s Rory Carroll summed up the legacy of Chávez’s Venezuela as “a land of power cuts, broken escalators, shortages, queues, insecurity, bureaucracy, unreturned calls, unfilled holes, uncollected garbage.” One could add to that list grinding poverty, massive corruption, censorship, and intimidation.

www.thedailybeast.com...

Also, it appears according to that article that a Union leader is his hand picked successor, so I expect to see puppet elections soon in which his hand picked successor wins and carries on the thread of autocratic socialist activity.

Unions are a tool of Communism as well. The Communist Party has classically used them to further the agenda of Communist Totalitarianism. Socialism is a bridge to Communism, and the two terms are even used interchangeable by Communists and Marxists.

And while Obama's puppy press continue to depict Chavez in glowing terms, this is an example of what was really going on

Nonetheless, it was after 2002 – after the coup – when Chavez really began concentrating and levelling all power in the hands of himself and key allies with government and its institutions becoming firmly centralised around him. In 2004, the Judiciary and Supreme Court lost their independence, essentially becoming appendages of the executive and losing their function as a check on the President’s power. Instead, they became tools of the government; used for political purposes more than any other role.

The story of Maria Lourdes Afiuni is a case of point in the ever-expanding intolerance to those who dissented against the late-president. Afiuni was a judge who released a high-profile banker accused of fraud (he also happened to be a prominent government critic); Chavez, furious at the decision, accused her of being bribed and detained her without trial. She spent more than a year in prison in deplorable conditions – and was allegedly raped – with several threats to her life from criminals she herself had imprisoned. Noam Chomsky, the famous Linguistics professor and US foreign policy critic, denounced his ‘old friend’ over the incident – but in his later years, Chavez used many similar bullying techniques to shut down any such opposition.

Anti-government radio and television channels were either closed, blocked or censored; Venezuela ranking 124th in the world on press freedom in 2009, according to Reporters Without Borders.

www.wessexscene.co.uk...

Indeed, in reading about this, I see some similarities in the tyrannical and power grabbing actions of our own dear leader.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Wow against Unions too.....
Oh well you just keep your "screw you jack Iam Ok" attitude and I will continue to fight for socialism...It saved my life when I was small (NHS). I believe in the common good for my fellow man.

Oliver Stone's South of the Border. If you want to know more about Hugo Chavez or want the story without the US Corporate Media spin, check it out.

It seems for some here they are so indoctrinated to toe the party line it seems to me to be a waste of time to reply directly. It also seems obvious as they never refer to it they either deny or ignored the OP's invite

Now, I will like to share a great documentary made by John Pilger. Well worth the watch.

But I would like to ask. If the revolutionary war in America was covered by today’s press what would the headlines read?

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

Wow against Unions too.....
Oh well you just keep your "screw you jack Iam Ok" attitude and I will continue to fight for socialism...It saved my life when I was small (NHS). I believe in the common good for my fellow man.

edit on 6-3-2013 by boymonkey74 because: (no reason given)

It appears you and I have different political ideals. I knew that already. But you clearly misunderstand my motive, as I never had a "screw you" attitude. In fact I am currently devoting a great deal of my time to volunteer activities in several NGO's, they just aren't socialist ones.
My mother used to volunteer at a local school for disabled, and that was in the 60's and 70's. She also volunteered at the Kirkwood Historical Society, and later on at a reserve in Florida dedicated to saving Sea Turtles. My Dad, as a business owner was invited to join the St. Louis Veiled Prophet Society, and after a time he left, because he thought they were too puffed up, but not before campaigning to allow women and minorities to join the organization.
So, what you may think you know about me does not necessarily apply.
In fact, I was recently talking to another group member and we both thought that we might organize a group effort to volunteer at the local food pantry. We just attended the public city commissioner's meeting where they were discussing the expansion of the food pantry.
So just because I don't support forced redistribution of wealth via tyrannical taxation doesn't mean I don't support helping people.
Again, one must look at the true motive of organizations.

A look at a number of NGO's and wildlife organizations shows that there is a Trojan Horse takeover of the UN.

Even Bolivia has a "Sustainable Development" webpage. The motive is depopulation and control of the world's resources by a wealthy and powerful elite. The Club of Rome is behind the push and while you may think you are supporting the downtrodden poverty sticken peoples of the world, the reality is it is just world domination and the movement of the NWO.
It pays to look behind the curtain.

Also I do not support oligopoly and monopolistic Capitalism. But then I understand the difference between Monopolistic control and free enterprise.
But an example of a monopoly can be in NGO's which are not necessarily profit driven. In the meeting last night, the food pantry said that they wanted to grow food in their community garden and process that food to feed hungry seniors in the Senior Center. The immediate response from one of the city commissioners was, will it compete with Meals on Wheels, which gets federal funding and delivers to the Senior Center.

Boy did red flags go up on my radar. So don't think that it is only giants like Wal Mart and Microsoft which can become monopolistic and destroy competition so it can get federal funding.
It turns out the city commissioner is also on the board at the Senior Center....