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Love vs Tyranny

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posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 01:17 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


What you're saying isn't coming out very clearly. Could you explain it more simply?

It's a distinction, between 1) love and 2) ego, whereby the first is real and our prior native state of mind and being, as a prior freedom and liberation (the way it is), with/in the resulting joy and bliss of non-attached intimate involvement and creative participation, and the second, is not. Who we take ourselves to be is basically a fraud, a sham, a whole complex web of projections, deflections, defense mechanisms, and all manner of compensating insecurities of all kinds, hell the worst aspect of ourselves (and the most unloving) might just be a tightly wrapped ball of insecurity nothing more.. (what I like to call in the light of awarenss a "shrinking devil")

It (love's truth and reality) OTOH, is a timeless, spaceless Reality (non particularized) as the REAL Reality, with the rest just a whole bunch of nonsense really, ridiculous, silly nonsense ie: all the myriad forms of self-delusion and self obsession and self-concern, projection and contraction and inauthenticity (insecurity) etc etc. which leads to the ongoing experience of dissatisfaction and separateness in a persistent dilemma (generating pathetic desire) that cannot be solved from the POV of the separate self
but that CAN (and will) be solved once the principal of the self is undone and God is realized, not as a duality, but as our very condition.


Getting into and remaining in this ongoing present Reality is a spiritual practice or "Sadhana" and it doesn't require sitting in meditation or that we do anything at all in particular (as non seeking beginners mind). But even as "nothing special" (uncaused enlightenment), It's the only thing worth "doing" and the only decent way to live and to be and even become (as a person of our own creation and choosing), the final union being (already) one with that which already is, who's fundamental principal or first cause, is Love. - and hey it's WHO we already always ARE (in truth) to begin with anyway (even as children), so the only thing to make a fuss about at that at this point (if anything at all) is our profound knowledge and awareness of our prior self (without getting locked in to Narcissus' reflection..! lol) which is evocative (or ought to be) - seeing ourselves as we really are/were - of a loving humor, an understanding, acceptance, reintegration and an unconditional love, of one's own self, in absolute forgiveness! LOL

"It is love. IT, IS, LOVE!" (James Oroc, over and over again compliments of "The Toad" - that's another very delicate ATS thread..)

Love is the answer to the question "because why?" Because I love you.

To have a shared experience appears to be the very purpose of reality and existence, and that's both very very generous and very inviting. And who cares precisely how it was done either! We need not comprehend or understand the incomprehensible Reality, only live it and experience it from moment to moment, as a discipline or Sadhana (at first). It is the way that life was meant to be lived and the way we used to live it in the Golden Age long gone and will again because the root or the rhizome always remained and surfaces again in the light of life (awareness)

All our present suffering comes from a present moment action based on the dilemma of a separative egoic self (putting up fronts, staring in reflections..). When that collapses, and surrenders, the only thing left is love, truth, beauty, reality, joy, bliss, happiness, not for any particular reason than that we ARE happy (it's who and what we are). Our native state, beyond mere causal, gross or subtle body experience and without any seeking. The peace of simple being recovered at long last - oh sigh.

We all did it we all made the same damn mistake. We went and lost ourselves in ourselves and forgot who and what we really are, but nothing can remain forgotten indefinitely (buried like a taproot), especially not love's reason and purpose, so it could be then said that "the kingdom of heaven is still close at hand" (lol), very near in fact, just a mere thinnest of a membrane of delusion separating us from it, but because it's so compelling and inviting, I don't see how the egoic-structured membrane-of-delusion can hold up much longer (in the face of Reality), before the whole damn thing rips apart from top to bottom - to gales of individual and collective laughter and hilarity; laughter at our own folly and absurdity from the light of love's reason and the knowledge of the humor of true understanding - because it is the very knowledge, of our personal experience in the light (reason, logic) of the law of life and love.

Did that help at all? .



How far would YOU go to uphold it, the ultimate standard, if you knew precisely what you were doing and why (for all the right reasons)? Now do you understand the Christ-mind and the Sacred Heart of Christ (and Mary too who was there at his crucifixion)?

It's a philosophical argument based on reason and logic (logos).

It's sound, like a rock of ages against which all human folly and ignorance shall be broken.

It's a "tyranny of love" that makes no compromise with the faulty delusions of the ego in order to save us from being orphaned in eternity.

Who will dare to receive the invitation and the free gift freely offered, who will drink the living water freely flowing in eternity - whoever is THIRSTY let him come and let all who hear say come and freely drink the living water! - that's the end of the Bible - an all inclusive, non coercive, invitation, from the Spirit and the Bride.

You are the Bride of Christ, whether you know it or not. There's a difference though between first hearing it, and then later knowing it, and between the two is "the practice" (Sadhana) because we the human being are a process, not a thing.

God Bless,

NAM

No I'm not your guru, and now that you know what I know you don't need me anymore to tell you. Just do the practice, practice practice the Sadhana. A mere taste of it, of the bliss is enough to keep you going at it for the rest of your life, deepening in the experience of it's unending and limitless love, joy, happiness and real satisfaction (without need, or care/concern( no matter the outward circumstance or the vicissitudes of life.

edit on 5-3-2013 by NewAgeMan because: edit




posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 03:32 AM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I don't know what that means.

PBS wouldn't have addressed it if the question hadn't, somehow, come up.

Their answer is akin to "I can neither confirm nor deny that assertion."


Arbitrary means unsupported.

And I don't think that's an accurate representation of their statement. They said specifically that there was no evidence for that claim "at all". Not some,.. but none whatsoever.



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 03:38 AM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Have you ever heard of Ravi Zacharias?


Enlighten me, if you would. Thank you.


Well, he's an author and has a radio and webcast, maybe a tv show too, but I think just a webcast. But mostly he gives speeches, usually on secular college campuses defending all aspects of Christianity. He's a world- renowned apologist for the faith. But to make a long story short people love him, he's an intellectual, funny, and down to Earth. Many of the questions you asked he covers, and I might add, far better than I ever could hope to.
Take a few and YouTube search his name and a ton of topics will pop up. Many are very short, but if you have time my favorite is "Why I am not an Atheist". I realize you aren't an atheist, but there is good info defending Christianity on that particular one.

And the icing on the cake is he has a cool accent.


edit on 5-3-2013 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Ah. Thank you. I will most certainly check him out. I hope you understand that I don't question anyone here personally, I just use them as a liaison by which to question the faith itself. If I have offended anyone, I apologize, but to make an omelet, you know...although I truly had no intention of causing offense.

Thank you, everyone who has participated so far. My hat goes off to all of you.



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Since there is no hard, scientifically solid evidence for the existence of Jesus, can you even imagine how world shaking archaeological evidence for the existence of the Biblical Jesus, found in the Dead Sea Scrolls would be?



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by windword
Since there is no hard, scientifically solid evidence for the existence of Jesus, can you even imagine how world shaking archaeological evidence for the existence of the Biblical Jesus, found in the Dead Sea Scrolls would be?
From my standpoint, whether the individual named Jesus existed in person or not doesn't dismiss the essence of the teachings associated with the one called Jesus. Those teachings are ageless and still relevant to this day - at least to the degree that people understand and truly practice them.

When the teachings of Jesus are considered, especially in terms of their esoteric nature, it does seem that such a person, appearing and working as spiritual master, did indeed exist. There is just too much wisdom in specific esoteric terms in his teachings for me to feel a group of ordinary men wrote all of this up.



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by windword
 


Good point. Why is it that everyone had something to write on except Jesus? Was keeping his life on record too mainstream for him?
edit on 5-3-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 12:00 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


I can't really say I know exactly what you're talking about, but it has gotten a little clearer. A few questions?

Where do you think heaven is?

Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, in what form?

Do you believe god resides within all of us?

What do you consider to be the "light of life"?

Thanks for the well thought out post.



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 


Where do you think heaven is?

Everywhere.

Do you believe in an afterlife? If so, in what form?

Yes, and, I don't know.

Do you believe god resides within all of us?

Yes, but God as the all in all is neither within nor without so there's nowhere in particular to point to.

What do you consider to be the "light of life"?

Consciousness, awareness, Christ-mind ie: God-consciousness.



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 

Since there is no hard, scientifically solid evidence for the existence of Jesus

Do you think there was a historical Jesus, and if not, why accept the historicity of people like Buddha or Socrates?

I don't mean to be argumentative, but I'm getting rather tired of these recent claims that there is no historical supporting evidence for the historical person of Jesus.

It's as if many people are trying hard, if they cannot beat his argument (reason, logic), to deny his existence and thus the meaning and significance of the cross (as the great work of the ages), which is absurd and disingenuous.

edit on 5-3-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


I agree with all of your answers, except that the afterlife is much like this one, if not exactly alike as far as perception/awareness. Also, God is within and without and everything in-between in my opinion.

I think I have a clearer understanding now, thanks!
edit on 5-3-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 

Sure, within AND without also works ie: inerrant and transcendant.

As to the afterlife, I suspect that it's either the karmic wheel of reincarnation (ie same as this life) or a non-corporeal light body (angelic) whereby this place of all palces, being the last that is first is the "jumping off" point to another dimension and domain, from which one might even actively choose, for all the right reasons to incarnate here again, like a Bodhisatva bent on helping to lay the foundation of heaven on earth and aiding in the eventual enlightenment of all people.

In either case that would make this the "before" life, effecting every life lived thereafter in whatever domain or realm.



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


What you're saying isn't coming out very clearly. Could you explain it more simply?


I do not know how nam couldnt put it more clearly and so eloquently. The trapped human seemingly has no use for its own brain; that or how to escape its 'formidable' wash boarding of. Not much I can add to its post except perhaps read it again (if there is time) while whatever God it is you are praying to is shoving you off a cliff, and saying to itself, another one compromised (can hardly believe the carnage I am allowed to get away with).



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 03:04 PM
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What's "funny" about it, imho, is that once realized, we can choose if we wish, for all the right reasons to go "all in" for life on earth and for the sake of God's love of all people, and in so doing become a one time Bodhisatva while still on the way, and then where are we..?


This requires then evermore courage to love as we are loved, including ourselves!

Scary!


As a tyranny of love and the only thing that makes any rational and logical sense - I'll take it and how could you not?

The bliss and joy then and the good-natured humor of love which is synonymous with the love of God IS the Sadhana (the practice). Whenever you're there, you're there and the more you are able to go there, the longer you'll be able to stay, so it might start out only once or twice a day, but then eventually become the present moment creative action, in the liberation of loves joy and bliss and as a domain of limitless possibility it's also the creative space of true creativity and freedom of expression and love for the human being, and then we can do Sadhana together and simply enjoy each other's company!

We can let the absurdity be the absurdity that it was and to a degree, maybe even a large degree still is, just viewed from the "outside the box" perspective, and there was never anything in the box or in the tight fisted hand of the constrained and contracted self, the limited self worth protecting to begin with - that's the funny part, opening the box to glimpse the utter absurdity within it (prior self).

Who has the courage and the audacity to not only receive the gift, but to open it and bear witness to the transformation of its contents.. like a double bind paradigm shift where you crap becomes your treasure even if only by comparison to the Reality including the self reintegrated - and so you immediately rebury it and go off selling everything you own to buy up the whole field! So it's not only funny but utterly magnificent, when the double bind of love's reason unravels to the chagrin (epic fail) of what was only absurd and ridiculous to begin with..!

edit on 5-3-2013 by NewAgeMan because: edit



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Since there is no hard, scientifically solid evidence for the existence of Jesus, can you even imagine how world shaking archaeological evidence for the existence of the Biblical Jesus, found in the Dead Sea Scrolls would be?



It will never happen as he helped to write them.



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
What's "funny" about it, imho, is that once realized, we can choose if we wish, for all the right reasons to go "all in" for life on earth and for the sake of God's love of all people, and then where are we?


This requires then evermore courage to love as we are loved, including ourselves!

Scary!


Go all in for yourself as a moral and truly singular expression. That is the whole point. God learns nothing if you are constantly seeking him; and not figured out he is seeking you instead in order to explain Itself to Itself. We are all it has, and I am not talking of the now straight jacketed/hospitalized SE (the depakote and thorzine having minimal effect) I'm speaking of its Creator Origin.



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by windword
 


Good point. Why is it that everyone had something to write on except Jesus? Was keeping his life on record too mainstream for him?
edit on 5-3-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


I am not sure that it would have been believed, he saw the far future and unlike John of Patmos (dream sequencials) would have expressed it as simply as having been a guest at a neighborhood blockparty. He wrote, but never attributed anything to himself because he thought He as percieved a potencial GOD was not going to be the point anyway. It was the idea. Boy was he ever mislead/wrong. The future he saw was otherworldly concequences, not his own; he was never interested in himself.
edit on 5-3-2013 by vethumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 

Therefore the goal is not to understand the infinite absolute objective Reality, but to live it. God can only be lived.

So there's the loss of one mind and the finding of a new one with new wine going into a new wineskin so to speak.

We don't need to figure it all out and never can when taken at arms length.

The Sadhana then (practice) is to rejoice and celebrate and experience the bliss and happiness and satisfaction of being already included in the first place and not excluded.

The the principal of the separative self is then broken by the tyranny of love's reason.

The argument is sound.



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 03:36 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by vethumanbeing
 

Therefore the goal is not to understand the infinite absolute objective Reality, but to live it. God can only be lived.
So there's the loss of one mind and the finding of a new one with new wine going into a new wineskin so to speak.
We don't need to figure it all out and never can when taken at arms length.
The Sadhana then (practice) is to rejoice and celebrate and experience the bliss and happiness and satisfaction of being already included in the first place and not excluded.
The the principal of the separative self is then broken by the tyranny of love's reason.
The argument is sound.



Yes. God lives through YOU; you do not live though IT. You do not give up egoself otherwise youve defeated the purpose of being a singularity (a brand new human IDEA) for your creator to expand on its contemplation of ITSELF. You do not loose any part of yourself, you just set the dinner table with another place for a visitor. This metaphor has been beaten over the head in the Bible: the most obvious one, the second visitation on the road after the resurrection and what happens after Jesus blesses and breaks the bread.



posted on Mar, 5 2013 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by vethumanbeing
 


Recognized. Re-cognized.






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