Could This be the First Evidence of Aliens and The Afterlife Being Related?

reply to post by Phage


Ah skeptoid the complete opposite of ATS.

So, apparently these hacks are back, and have resurfaced with a new set of experiments. I've seen it called "Beyond the Scole Experiment" and alternatively, "The Norfolk Experiment."

www.facebook.com...

These experiments are being performed in broad daylight... unfortunately, they have come up with a completely bogus was to produce new evidence: they apparently take pictures of crystals. As usual, their evidence looks like something that could easily be done in Photoshop.

These guys have whatever ounce of credibility they had after I watched that documentary. Nothing to see here folks, move on.

I've always thought that aliens reside in the astral dimension and some of the ufo's seen are them coming into our space to observe/monitor.

Originally posted by Clarky
I've always thought that aliens reside in the astral dimension and some of the ufo's seen are them coming into our space to observe/monitor.

I have being into this astral realm world, if you remember my thread.

The Old Wise Sensei & The Strange Landscape,

How does anyone explain my experience. And yes it was a bamboo forest with a small flowing stream that went to the pond where the teacher was mediating and waiting me.

reply to post by dellfriday


You sound like a disinfo agent.

Originally posted by Vrillion
reply to post by dellfriday

 

You sound like a disinfo agent.

Or, you know, I'm someone that is very unimpressed by what is a clearly a sloppily-executed hoax.

reply to post by dellfriday

by what is a clearly a sloppily-executed hoax.

So is everything a hoax? who says its a hoax? maybe that world where i have being is a hoax to.

Thanks for the facebook link, Dellfriday!

So the Scole Experiment is now evolved into calling themselves the Norfolk Experiment and taking pictures like this:




They are calling them "Crystal Photographic Experiments."

This is from their Facebook page:

The paranormal phenomena of 'The Scole Experiment' occurred around two mediums, Alan and Diana Bennett. They were the apparent 'catalysts' for the phenomena as all the paranormal events that occurred required their presence. The Scole Experiment began in 1993 and ceased in 1998. Alan and Diana began the new experimental work - which is now called 'The Norfolk Experiment' - in early 2005. Grant and Jane Solomon, authors of 'The Scole Experiment: Scientific Evidence for Life After Death', are now joining Alan and Diana at experimental sessions in order to participate in the on-going experiments and to report the results and record the events as they happen. In addition to this Facebook Page, Grant and Jane are writing a new book, which will contain all the detail, descriptions, explanations, contributions, images, links, and other material, as before. This new book, to which Alan and Diana are contributing their knowledge, experience, ideas, and material, will be called, 'The Norfolk Experiment: Beyond The Scole Experiment'. Grant and Jane met Alan and Diana to conduct another set of experiments today. As a group, we thought followers of this Page might appreciate the opportunity to view a selection of images received to date during the Crystal Photographic Experiments, all in one place, in order to allow convenient comparison. We have therefore produced this album, which illustrates the varied quality and nature of the images transmitted by/received from the 'communicators' during the experiments. You may agree that some are 'crystal clear', leaving little room for doubt that a 'communicator' has transmitted an image, whilst some are quite blurred and open to interpretation or doubt. As we've mentioned elsewhere on this Page, the 'communicators' only have a fleeting moment in time to try to 'send' or 'transmit' an image 'into' or 'via' the crystal when Alan clicks the camera. When you see the other Posts explaining how the experiments are actually conducted and how the images are produced, you may agree with us that it is a wonder in itself that any images at all are available to show you. Whilst looking through the album of images, you may be interested to know that, although some of the 'communicators' say they are deceased humans who lived on Earth, died, and found themselves conscious in 'another place', other 'communicators' say they have never lived as humans and they are communicating from other 'realms' and 'dimensions of existence'. We hope to have many more images to share as the sessions of The Norfolk Experiment progress. For the background to the previous work of Alan and Diana Bennett, you may like to read 'The Scole Experiment: Scientific Evidence for Life After Death', which is available online with further recommended reading, here: astore.amazon.co.uk...

I don't really know what to say. You can click on the facebook link DellFriday provided above for more pictures and info.

reply to post by VegHead


The question comes again. Has anybody gotten the same results as this? Therefore how can it be faked?

Originally posted by Vrillion
reply to post by VegHead

 

The question comes again. Has anybody gotten the same results as this? Therefore how can it be faked?

Yes, I am very interested to know if anyone else has tried this crystal photography. It's the first I've ever heard of it, anyway.

I can appreciate what you are saying in defense of the investigative team, and I agree that it is unfair to assume something is a hoax just because results are unexpected or unique. But you have (probably unintentionally) touched on something that always bugs me when groups try to debunk alleged paranormal evidence. They try to recreate it - which I think is a good and important thing to do as part of an overall understand and to keep our minds open to possibilities - but then they make the leap that just because they can recreate something falsely that "debunks" the evidence and "proves" something is a hoax. Someone could recreate a photograph of Abe Lincoln using a lookalike and photoshop skills... just because they can do this doesn't mean they proved all pictures of Abe Lincoln were hoaxes. OK, that was a terrible example -- but I hope it makes sense.

Same line of thinking, but flip side of the coin... just because something cannot be re-created does NOT prove that something is genuine. It just means that the debunker failed to recreate it - maybe they didn't use quite the right technique. I personally wouldn't be able to recreate some funky pictures I've taken with anomalies that I know are just camera artifacts... does that make them proof of spirits because I cannot recreate them? Of course not.

Having said that, I would suspect that someone with a picture of a crystal, a picture of a face, and some basic photoshop skills could create these images quite easily. But... that doesn't really prove much of anything in my opinion.

reply to post by Vrillion


This thread is da bomb!!!

The vid: at 12.53, that's some killer material right there!
Best ever!
I can't believe I haven't seen this earlier. Great find, great post, star&flag, thank you!

Personally, I have long since accepted the idea of life after "death" and the very real existance of the spirit realm through numerous convincing examples. Nowadays, I think more of it as how it works on "the other side"; what laws binds that part of reality? How can it interact with the physical realm? Do you ever return back to "mortal" life or is reincarnation not possible?
So many questions arising from the answer: yes there is life after death! When I grow up to become a ghost I am going to find out all about it and do what I can to convey that information to the ones still in the physical world. I can hardly wait!

The only slight chance of explaining this in some sort of alternative manner is that it is the psyche of the investigators themselves that influence the outcome. It is actually their own impressions, thoughts and emotions that come onto the film or tape.
However, it is unlikely in the case of Edison's "communication device"; how would they have been able to come up with that only indirectly/unconciously? Also, the fact that the whole board of scientists are established psychics makes the case stronger that they are in reality channeling the spirit realm. There is no debunking this, only blatant ignorance remains.

About the "alien", maybe we got it all wrong. Maybe it has never been about extraterrestials? Maybe it has always been "extradimensionals" (recalling that infamous Art Bell phonecall). Or maybe, if they are truly from another physical planet out in the universe, maybe they have figured out how to travel through space by accessing the spirit realm? Or maybe they are "their" ghosts, sharing the same spiritual dimension as the humans of Tellus?

This is all really nice, I am going to show this to my girlfriend later tonight. She has this sort of "gift" as well, but it is not very well developed at the moment (work in progress). This is going to blow her mind!

Cool stuff indeed! Just like "Edison" said in the vid: this is a hisorical moment!
I just love it

Here follows a lot of feedback aimed at many of you's. Sorry for the ugly format but at least I read the whole thread.

Originally posted by BurialKing
I watched the full documentary on this not too long ago and basically they have not done any of these experiments since the original ones which I think were back in the late 90's. Also they refused to allow Night Vision or Infrared Cameras into the basement where it took place as they thought it might "scare the spirits away" that left me believing it was complete rubbish.

So that is, seriously, what makes you discard the whole deal? Come on man, you can do better than that.
IR gives of a lot of emissions that might interfere with the results. Besides, what is it that you would like to see in such a documentation? The team tampering with the equipment? How? They did have an outsider monitor the equipment for valitidy. For a second hand source, what would you like for them to do for you to believe? Just askin'.

Originally posted by RP2SticksOfDynamite
I am pro-A's but think the Scole Experiment is laced with conjouring!

"Historical Moment" .............come on......this smacks of fakery!

Originally posted by violet
When the so called sprit said Historical Moment, that just cheapened the whole thing for me.

Where is the proof the video tape was blank when it was used for this experiment? Just because some man said it was means nothing.

The alien Gray face was too fake. It looked like a mask.

So, subtle evidence, e.g. blurry, fuzzy, shaky, that needs some imagination/theorizing is not good and will automatically be discarded. Skepitcs want clear, measurable and plain evidence. Give 'em that and it is suddenly "too obvious" and "smacks of fakery". What kind of proof do you want really? LOL, there is no pleasing!

Originally posted by sayzaar
If this was true i would be more concerned that the dead had not passed into some other enjoyable life,able to forget their past and move on, but instead just seem to be static, stuck in a void desparately trying to contact the living.

Maybe the whole idea of an "enjoyable afterlife" is based on Christian and other religious misconceptions? What says that it has to be paradise? I am not saying that it is hell either just that it is "different". Maybe as complex and varied as mortal life?

Originally posted by Char-Lee
These are not dead persons who have passed. The woman who lost her son, is fooling herself into feeling it is a good thing hearing these words now and then from what she thinks is her son. Clearly it keeps her from moving on and makes her mentally ill.

I can cope with some what you say. That woman should really let go and so should the spirit of her son. Maybe they had a very strong bond and that bond could not be broken by death or by reasoning either. I wouldn't say that she is mentally "ill" but she sure is making it harder on her self. She knows now that her son is still out there and she should know that they will meet again when it is due time. That time is not now.

Originally posted by violet
You can't write in the dark? I'm sure you can.

On a piece of undeveloped film? How do you write so clearly on that type of surface in the light even?

Originally posted by Phage
Here's one.
skeptoid.com...

Phage...you used to be good at these things but this example is worth nothing. Their experiment- their setting. They wanted to get the maximum outcome, they set the scene to make it so. They are not responsible before the scientific community, they do this for their own sake.
There is just so much wrong with this kind of critique... You better shape up man or you're just coming off as sad.
You know I respect you though

One thing to highlight is the criticism provided always just attacks the low points, and flat-out ignores the facts presented on the video.

Simple example:
Critics: they weren’t allowed to film in the dark, or with infrared. Therefore, hoax.
Fact: they did film in the dark at least twice, without telling the psychics the camera wasn’t actually turned off, and the results show the “heavy oak table” made to be tamper-proof appearing to levitate, and petals falling (granted, not actually seen materializing from thin air). As a commenter there mentions, the film failed to provide evidence of fakery.

From skeptoid.com...

investigators imposed little or no controls or restrictions upon the mediums, and at the same time, agreed to all of the restrictions imposed by the mediums.

The restrictions imposed by the mediums are not arbitrary. They themselves provide a valid reason for this: interference with the methods (ex. setting, IR, EMF, etc.) greatly diminishes the psychic results. If they truly did try to work around this, give it the time it needed to begin working with all this new interference (years), researchers might by them just write this off as ‘no effects observed’ and lose all interest. It is really a no-win situation for the psychics. The article repeats this point over and over “what the investigators should have done, which was to provide their own room.”

mediums effectively had every opportunity to be completely hands free and do whatever they wanted to do

One valid point.

he discovered this locked box could be quickly and easily opened in the dark, which allowed for easy substitution of film rolls. This box was provided by the mediums. Whenever any other sealed container was used, no images ever appeared on the film.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of a hoax. Fails to mention the researcher at all times held the box in his own hands, as another poster may have already mentioned. Commenter also mentioned this.

Perhaps the biggest red flag in the Scole Experiment is the venue in which the sittings took place: a room in the basement of the house in Scole where two of the mediums lived

See first point: you can’t strip away all the elements (setting, subject, group atmosphere, sustained effort over the years) and still expect to see a result. Just because no one really understands the subtle ingredients necessary for obtaining such strong psychic effects (if they indeed were genuine) doesn’t make them fake.

The seances were held about once a month, which gave the Foys ample time to make any desired alterations to the room.

Irrelevant. If such alterations were made, with prior preparations, they could take place within a few hours even. You can’t expect anyone to watch over the room 24/7 for years on end.

Audio recordings only were permitted, but since the claimed phenomena were primarily visual, the audio tapes are of essentially no value.

There were countless visual and auditory phenomena. How can one discount the audio recordings on the basis of lack of video? And again, there was video and picture evidence.

Mainstream psychologists and other academics would have gotten in on it, it would have made worldwide headlines, and it would be repeated in labs everywhere and become mainstream science.

Very poor argument. Obtaining strong phenomena is obviously an exceedingly rare thing, even by highly gifted psychics. The ingredients necessary obviously depend on the skills of the psychics, the sustained effort, the ‘energy’ of the setting (something biased skeptics dismiss outright), and other factors that even those involved are trying to discover and improve upon. Again, see first point.

a primary feature of good research is the elimination of other possible explanations, at which the Scole investigators made no competent effort.

Does the article claim to have an additional inside source of information about this so-called lack of competent effort? If so, it fails to provide it. Granted, the experimenters should have improved in certain areas (glow in the dark wristbands with Velcro sounds like an utterly flawed way to track participants).

Countless people coming in with unfounded opinions, making false claims that “this has been proven a hoax already” only adds to the credibility of the Scole Experiments.

It demonstrates that there has been no evidence (to my knowledge, or in this thread so far) that casts the credibility of the psychics involved into question.

reply to post by pilotx

Critics: they weren’t allowed to film in the dark, or with infrared. Therefore, hoax. Fact: they did film in the dark at least twice, without telling the psychics the camera wasn’t actually turned off, and the results show the “heavy oak table” made to be tamper-proof appearing to levitate, and petals falling (granted, not actually seen materializing from thin air). As a commenter there mentions, the film failed to provide evidence of fakery.

There seems to be some confusion here.

The video highlighted two separate séances: the Scole Experiment in England, which ended in 1998, and a completely unrelated séance in Italy, that happened about 10 years later.

Most people are discussing the Scole Experiment, and the mediums there certainly did forbid the use of light or infrared cameras.

You are referring to the Italian séance and your observations are correct, but it was hardly stop the front page 'proof', which is what most people (never mind scientists) are looking for.

Some of the phenomena at Scole may indeed have been genuine, but some of it certainly wasn't (at least as presented in the video) and it just wasn't conducted in a proper, scientific manner, which would have screened for trickery by, for example, using light or infrared cameras.

The surprising thing is that some scientists went along with it despite this.

Which brings us to another important observation: none of the scientists (Ellison, Fontana, Sheldrake) were remotely sceptical about this but, to the contrary, had reputations which supported the hypothesis of life after death....hardly impartial.

I'm afraid 'might be genuine, might not' isn't good enough for scientific verification.

reply to post by CJCrawley


Thank you for the correction. I reviewed that portion of the video and saw indeed that what was taped with the infrared camera (which was kept running secretly) was from the Italy seance by Bachi, not from Scole. It revealed no signs of deception.

Scole's video evidence (in complete darkness) was of lights that would change shape, appear and disappear, and move rapidly, in addition to complex glowing shapes. The Scole group itself also used a video camera, set up in a special way (viewfinder feedback), to also capture those two very strange entities as evidence of contact.

Here's a few excerpts from the start of the video:

'it [infrared camera] would interfere with the energy, otherwise phenomena in light would take years and years instead of a few months that it took us'

'which had substance, they could sit on your hand, you could feel them' 'intelligently directed and intelligently moving..responsive to wishes whether expressed or silent' 'suddenly a light would do a tap-dance on table, hearing it click, and suddenly went through the table and on the other side' 'lights would pass through bodies, producing a healing phenomena'

'1,000 hours of continuous communication with the spirit world'

'she [channeled entity] would answer our questions quite quickly before we asked them, which was quite embarrassing'

'number of independent witnesses could identify people they were communicating with which only they would know, that the mediums couldn't possibly know'

'professor Arthur Roy, astronomer, testing his knowledge of the stars, talked with the other side about celestial mechanics, only half a dozen people in country would know what he was talking about'

edit to add: There were other scientists besides Arthur Ellison, Montague Keen, and David Fontana, who came from SPR, and whose professionalism hangs in their ability to spot out frauds. In the video they were not listed, though that information is probably in the book. It is true, they weren't impartial given their backgrounds, but consider what other scientist whose only regard for seances is that of an elaborate magic show would care to take it seriously enough to go and investigate, and risk ruining their credibility in the meantime? That is at least one good reason to use paranormal investigators, in addition to their ability to spot out frauds.

reply to post by Raud


You have just described every skeptic on ATS ever. The most thing people are stubborn about are and is change.

reply to post by Vrillion


I am going OT here but I guess it is also up to the OP to disregard or approve of this post.

What I wanted to say is that I think the whole deal is connected to how since the Age of Enlightenment gave us a materialistic view on the world, you know, consume/contribute to consumption or gtfo, that's the only acceptable deal. What you see is what you get, don't question athority, get rich or die trying, and all that jazz.
Anything that would make us question that this is "our only life" and that material possession is the only thing that matters really scares the crap out of traditional, scientific world views because it is constructed around those notions. They don't even have theories, models or measuring tools for this kind of stuff because they fear it too much. It would lead them to questioning their own grounds, dismantling the world they "created". No one in their right (wrong) mind would venture into doing something like that; commiting scientific/ontological suicide.

This provided evidence that we are dealing with, along with related material, is questioning and disapproving some long since accepted power structures. Even the majors religions are at stake here. What if we through this could prove that there is no, and has never been a judgemental God-guy (certainly a man) in the clouds looking down at us, tossing down an occasional stone tablet? There is so much more to this but I won't go into that now (too much personal values would emerge I'm afraid).

Thus, the closure on this stuff is that there will be no closure more than in our own minds. We know and that blesses us with a wider understanding of life, death and all in between. Haters gonna hate, skepics gonna, eh, skept. Maybe there will be some major awakening in this matter sometime in the future, I don't know.
What I do know is that this doucmentary was made a long time ago and as far as I am concerned it never made the headlines anywhere and it probably won't either. We've just gotta love it like it is- unperfect, incomplete at absolutely wonderful.

reply to post by Raud


Brilliant.



That is touching on and breaking through what can be arbitrarily called the 'explicate' layer of the illusion: the Collective Mind (power structures, stagnating traditions, scientism, dogma, institutionalism, etc. etc.), whose quality as 'sum-total' is greater than what could be achieved by the individual illusion of the personal mind (Implicate Layer of the Illusion).

The critical point about that isn't an inherent problem with the personal mind, societal organizations, power, or the illusory nature of the world in themselves, but their misuse as a result of sleep, non-inquiry, and our constant feeding (bleeding) upholding their existence every moment due to inattention (personal obstructions, desire, fear).

The personal and collective mind (implicate and explicate layers of illusion) will by its nature be backwards, upside down.

It is a lack of pure love at the root of it all that allows the tainted shadows to 'blossom' as abominations: the on-going personal horror made up of unnecessary strain, pain, suffering; at the larger scale, all forms of violence and exploitation perpetuated in the name of some poisonous ideal or another.

Testing the true parameters of the natural world is also discouraged by the personal/collective mind, because then it would be discovered that it is possible to live in harmony, and still not exceed the presently-known limitations of life on earth and laws of nature.

Instead, we unknowingly glorify and perpetuate, like spreading a mental virus, idealism of the present economic paradigm (competition, efficiency, infinite growth) without ever listening to that inner silent voice basking in bliss that makes it clear all of this is not the whole truth. We struggle with the best of intentions within a series of systems (political, economic, religious) based on that lie, created like a rigged puzzle that lacks a solution but geared towards self-destruction (ecology, sanity).
A beautiful tall tree will not stand when its roots are corrupt from the inside out; endless paradigms are just diversions from the fact that love is not first, foremost, and central.

The great thing is, all it takes is attention, love, inquiry into anything and everything (not excluding the inquiring mind itself), and perhaps listening to the guidance of the silent inner voice. In the presence of such light, the shadows will betray their non-existence.

To try and tie this back on topic, I highly doubt whatever planes of the afterlife/dimension they are contacting (if this is indeed the real thing) will necessarily always represent a stage 'higher' than the current condition of 'life on earth.' Even the message therefore should be subject to scrutiny, provided it is genuine. It could help expose TPTB and the collective illusion/mind just as much as it can serve to amplify it.

reply to post by Raud


When I first joined ATS I thought it would be the most less place to find skeptics. But I was horribly wrong. I mean even if they have legal documentation that Obama was born the United States people still claim it is fake. It's like even when their is hard legitimate evidence, people are just resistant to change. As long as these people can find a possible way it is hoaxed/faked they immediately claim that it is. I believe that these skeptics deny almost everything just because it makes them feel better inside. This is not saying I believe in everything but just saying they're is a clear line between being logical and being in denial for you're own being.