Pastor to waitress: I GIVE GOD 10% WHY SHOULD I GIVE YOU 18%?

This issue really hits home for me, being that I work and have worked in the hospitality industry for a couple years over a decade now. I have worked in the US and now in Europe.

The main difference in the two sets of servers, those with tipping and those without is the lack of effort on the part of the servers without tipping and the extra effort for those that have tipping.

Behind the scenes in a restaurant in the US, you have people FIGHTING for work. "I want more tables, I want THAT larger table, ect. In Europe it is literally the opposite. "I dont want more tables, its your turn to get the party", ect.

How that translates at the time of service is self evident. The system where a guy looking to work harder and win more customers produces better servers who work every angle to satisfy the customer....they want more and larger bills and the tip that goes with it.

Those without tipping are counting on their salary that they will get no matter what. They see EVERYTHING as extra work for the same pay. They are usually right. All extra effort is stolen from you because you get nothing for it. You only go the extra mile when its your friends or favorite customers...that makes for REALLY bad business.

In the US you have people who may ask for a waiter by name for his good service, in Europe you ask to NOT get a particular waiter.

Everyone here in Europe is trying to see how to produce the level of professionalism that other tipping cultures have....they are starting to notice that making the waiter have a reason to treat the customer better is the end result of having him earn a tip.

The business likes it too, they can pay less and leave the actual pay up to the effort of the waiter.
In Europe they have to pay really high salaries(well, steady costs of an employee are higher) and make expensive contracts because the waiter gets tipped 10-50 cents per table /bill...MAYBE a Euro....and they have to SHARE the over all tips with everyone at the end of the week or month. That makes for the weight of pay to rest entirely on the small business man who may not even want the employee who scares away his customers but still has to keep him on due to restrictive firing laws (that has only recently changed by austerity measures)

In the US our waiters leave of their own accord when they see they make crappy tips, or the establishment just fires them because they lose customers from lack of effort. Managers in the US ASK how much you made because it is a sign of doing well as far as customer satisfaction. It makes YOU feel good when you make others feel good.

In Europe they ask WHY or IF the customer is unsatisfied. That really says it all.

A waiter in the US would not be encouraged to to work little or avoid getting to know his customers, he would be so encouraged so as to anticipate their wants and needs. BE there.

In Europe it is like the customer will get upset if the waiter and not the manager is the one to get to know them. They dont want a relationship with the staff...they expect one from the manager.

THAT leads to micro managing, which is just awful since it prevents the team mentality from forming. it also makes for a huge head ache for managers and stunts the growth of a business.

In the US I have seen waiters fight with the kitchen because the quality of the food was not up to par....in Europe I have seen them serve what was clearly god awful food just because they really dont care.

Tipping makes a good waiter, not tipping makes a good waiter into a bad waiter. We really try to make your special events in life that much better. As close to perfect as we can sometimes. When you show us you didnt care, then we lose that drive little by little.

Many people here really get it, and that is nice to see. Others, well, you will hardly ever have a good time at a restaurant because you dont even know how you are ruining your own time out. The mentality of "I spend money so it is my way or the highway" is flawed. There is an etiquette to going out as well as there being one to being served.

If you like the food, and service you tip. End of story. The accepted rate is 15-20% per your area because that IS THEIR PAY...most waiters get paid 15-30 dollars a shift (10-15+hours)....30-35 Euros a day (10-15+hours)..yeah.... non tipping cultures exploit their servers....

The same way a waiter will be expected not to tell you off or refuse to serve you for your what ever reason. Or serve your soup on the floor...or your steak on a piece of aluminum, you are expected to tip....if not you are a thief.

Another part of etiquette most people dont know is that you explain WHY you are not tipping so they can improve. If you dont tip and are an ass that walks out without explaining to the server what was wrong, not the manager though you can , then you are not really expecting an improvement, just a cheaper bill.

also I didnt see any credit card information posted in the OP, just the merchant ID, which is like the tax ID number for the establishment. There was no reason to fire anyone. The pastor was just a real A-hole that had his stink made public and was angry about it. Makes being a jerk a little harder.

Originally posted by MidnightSunshine
reply to post by xedocodex

 

OMG the NON-sense you people are spilling is hilarious!!!

" teenagers are very common as waiters. "


WHERE are teenagers waitressing??? PLEASE tell me? Here in PA, 20 years ago even, you have to be at least 18 but you most likely won't get hired as a server until you are 21!!

Last I checked....eightTEEN year olds are teenagers.

One more thing for everyone who has obviously just skimmed the basic facts...the pastor is a woman! I have seen more references to "he this" "he that" why do you all assume the pastor is a man? Stereotyping much...

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


I wouldn't say that unmotivated staff is a problem in the UK that much, yes, as I said in my first post in this thread many servers don't go out of their way to provide excellent service, but there are many others that do.

One thing I hate though, and a particular restaurant chain was really bad for it, was having your meal served and before you even had to a chance to take two bites, they were leaping on you, asking if everything was okay, it annoyed the hell out of me, one time I hadn't even had one bite and the waiter pounced (I was dealing with a young child and was slower to start than everyone else) so I told him, that if anything was wrong, I'd be sure to let them know after I had tasted the food. I and a few other friends did tend to use this chain quite frequently because they were very child friendly but we all agreed this was very annoying, then some time later I filled out a questionnaire about my thoughts on the service and included this. The chain then dropped this part of the service so I can only assume many other people were annoyed about it as well. If I am out having a meal with friends or family I like to get involved in conversation and I don't really take too kindly to a waiter constantly interrupting to ask if my food is okay or if I want anything else...I am quite capable of getting their attention if I do.

As a Brit, I find the American tipping model very interesting. Just to clarify, tipping in the UK does exist - it's very common to tip waiting staff, bar tenders, barbers, taxi drivers etc. It's not absolutely expected though, and is often in the form of 'keep the change' or 'have a drink for yourself'. We do have minimum wage here though - £6.19 for over 21s, £4.98 for 18-21 and £3.98 for under 18s. It's not a lot to be fair, but most of the UK is liveable on full time minimum wage - London perhaps excluded.

It's always funny visiting America. I'm never sure who to tip or how much, so there I am handing out fives to every Tom, Dick and Harry I come across. You guys must love me when I'm in town.

reply to post by KingIcarus

It's always funny visiting America. I'm never sure who to tip or how much, so there I am handing out fives to every Tom, Dick and Harry I come across. You guys must love me when I'm in town.

Well as I've found out from this thread unless it's at least 20% of the bill, your tip will be seen as an insult

But you're right about our system in the UK, if my bill is £18.80 and I feel I've had really good service I hand over a £20 and tell them to keep the change, but that's no where near the 18% or 20% expected. And yes I forgot about taxi drivers, I usually tip them as well, but not if I know they've taken a longer route in order to charge me a higher fare...and I'll tell them that!

reply to post by destination now


Yeah I agree. You have to feel each person out. I was trained that you wait 5 minutes or 5 bites before going over to ask. Really that means you stay in your section and wait for your table to call you over. In essence you should appear in the area of the table after each dish is served so that is at most 3-4 times. You get the feeling when you are needed. A mother feeding a kid visually asks you for a spoon or a straw. If you hear silverware fall you can tell what fell by the noise it made and who dropped it so grab a fork or what ever and walk over there. A slurping sound usually means a refill, you see some one looking for a napkin, or trying to use a dirty one, you grab another and hand it over with a smile....ect

If you are good you hardly speak after taking an order. If you stay in your section and make eye contact when the customer searches for it they will tell you what you need to do. Everyone I have trained I tell them this. Read body language and the situation. Not everyone wants to be chatted up, some REALLY do....each person is different.

A romantic dinner for two calls for one type of service and a party with 12 kids calls for another. You learn to read the signals eventually right up to what they want to order and their intended allowance for the meal.
That takes time but if you are attentive and alert you can provide excellent service without even speaking more than a confirmation after the order is placed. I prefer the less intrusive approach.

Peripheral vision and situational awareness tend to help you more than being a weirdo looking at them chew when serving people. It is a learned skill though.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


Well said, and for that type of service I probably would tip...but don't expect 20% of the bill..I am Scottish you know

Originally posted by Honor93

heck, i can't even think of one station in 2 counties that has an 'attendant' to pump your gas.
it really is a 'regional' difference eh ?

I hate it....I actually live just over the river in Washington where you pump your own gas, but in Oregon it is against the law to pump your own gas. I think it was an initiative to create jobs...

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

A min wage should be sustainable, but for who? Employer or Employee? There's a difference. Sustainble for life of employee would mean more than $10/hr in cities. Sustainable for Employer means lower than that or he will be bankrupt soon, as he will pass on wage rise onto prices and consumer will either give up or have a smaller pool of customrers.

I'm not sure what is sustainable for a typical restaurant. I know that at a place where meals are 8 bucks the server is not going to make huge tips and so they should be paid more, and there are restaurants that the server gets a very good living wage just in tips.

Minimum wage should not be singularly sustainable. To suggest a person should be able to live on minimum wage by themselves and meet all needs is not realistic. In the case where two people work minimum wage then as a synergic situation of sharing they should be able to meet sustainability. Now as you add others...like kids then it once again should not meet sustainability.

Minimum wage in Washington is 1500 per month on a 40 hour week and that would put two working people at 3000 per month...

reply to post by Grimpachi

ah yes, and let's not forget that the 'customers' asked for separate checks hoping to avoid the 'auto charge'

so, not only did they know of the charge, they planned on avoiding it and then went so far as to cross it off the check ... THIEVRY ... in every aspect of the word.

and, let's not forget, the Pastor's check was the ONLY one of the entire party that was sooooo indignant toward the person who actually did serve them.
how many ways can we say ... no class whatsoever.

ETA -- i'm curious why ... if the Pastor was so dissatisfied with the service, she didn't complain to mgt before the ticket went viral ??
and also, why her first response was NOT ... i left $6 on the table --> because this appeared a week later is exactly why i don't believe any cash tip was left behind.

reply to post by Xtrozero

back in PA, up to the 80s anyway, we had attendants at most every gas station.
the only place you pumped your own was at a 'convenience' store/pump.

here, in FL, even N and S of my location, in 25+yrs, i can only remember 2 times that gas was pumped for me ... once was after the mechanic did a gas tank repair and the second was a bored cashier who was hoping for a date

sad, cause even if they wear the cloth, you wouldnt trust them to babysit your kids especially the boys !!!! they are either drunks or PETIPHILES!!! there a small % that are true men of the cloth ...very few

reply to post by blackz28


Well this pastor was a woman, so you may want to review your post...

reply to post by lupodigubbio


Kinda sad someone got fired for posting stupidity. How much business can a pastor and his "flock" really bring in?

reply to post by skoalman88


Well I don't know about your imaginary male pastor and HIS flock, but this pastor is a woman as stated so many times in this thread now that I may in fact devise my own drinking game, whereby I have a shot every time someone else refers to the pastor as a man...should be drunk in about 20 mins...

What a douche. Waitresses make pretty much nothing, and using God as an excuse to be a tigh*ss is no way to score points with him.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin



The 18% in this case was not a standard gratuity. This pastor was out to eat with a large group and was told at the beginning of the meal that Applebee's policy regarding groups over 8 was that a gratuity was included on each of their bills. Knowing this, they chose to stay there and eat. Not only did this pastor cross out the additional tip, she marked through the gratuity that she knew from the beginning would be included in her bill.

The fact of the matter is that in the States, we live in a tipping society.

Everyone here is fully aware of that fact before they ever make the decision to go to a restaurant, take a taxi, use valet service or utilize any other "tipped" position. You can argue all day long that restaurants should pay more so you don't have to tip, but until something changes, that is not how the food service industry works here. For everyone that disagrees with tipping, maybe consider eating at home, walking to work or parking your own car.

I live in the city where all this happened. The pastor is female. She took a group of people to a local chain restaurant. A tip is automatically added to the bill when there is a large group. The waitress had no control over the 18% that was automatically printed on the bill.

The group had a really small meal-the bill was under $35 for everyone. The tip would be under $7.

The waitress posted the bill because she thought it was funny. Unfortunately, she left the pastor's name visible. The pastor allegedly found out about this and demanded everyone who came in contact with the bill and participated in the posting be fired.

Those are the facts.

Originally posted by destination now
reply to post by blackz28

 

Well this pastor was a woman, so you may want to review your post...

She was a "black woman" just pointing that out, might as well get all the facts out there.

news.yahoo.com...

I can tell you personally from my experience in the service industry, and from the experiences from all my friends throughout the years that it is a fact that black people, especially black women are THE WORST TIPPERS EVER! If they even tip at all. Matter of fact, when black people, especially black women go to a restaurant they can be sure that all the waiters and servers are fighting with each other to NOT have them at their tables. This is fact from experience and not just my personal opinion but mine and many, many others.