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Originally posted by HopSkipJump
No, if you secede, you are not a patriot, you are a traitor. These are not made up definitions, they are the actual definitions. You are attributing meanings that don't exist.
Any state that secedes from the United States is a state of Traitors. Just as we were traitors to the British Crown, you will be traitors to the United States and the US Constitution. Sure, you can be a "patriot" to the "Nation of Texas", but you will be a traitor to the United States and to the Constitution. It is your choice, but you can't call it something it isn't.
Originally posted by Observor
Originally posted by HopSkipJump
No, if you secede, you are not a patriot, you are a traitor. These are not made up definitions, they are the actual definitions. You are attributing meanings that don't exist.
Any state that secedes from the United States is a state of Traitors. Just as we were traitors to the British Crown, you will be traitors to the United States and the US Constitution. Sure, you can be a "patriot" to the "Nation of Texas", but you will be a traitor to the United States and to the Constitution. It is your choice, but you can't call it something it isn't.
Yes, they would be traitors to the corrupt government of the US and its non-functional constitution. Don't see much problem with that.
Originally posted by frazzle
Government does not provide electricity or monetary income or transportation or the internet or any of the other perks of your everyday life. Those perks are provided by private, for profit corporations upon which you are dependent, and for which you must pay with money borrowed, at interest, from one of the above named corporations. Government's role is to protect those corporations by regulating you and taxing you for the privilege.
They win, you lose.
edit on 20-1-2013 by frazzle because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by groingrinder
The big problem as I see it is that we DO NOT GET TO CHOOSE OUR LEADERS. We get to choose between the Democrat thieving liar or the Republican thieving liar who are shoved down our throats by the corrupt system. This is because the corrupt political system depends on HUGE cash donations from corrupt corporations. Thus an honest independent candidate will never get elected.
Once we decouple the corporate cash from the political system, then we will have a shot at honest representative government again. ALL money donated should be anonymous. It should be put into a pool and distributed to ALL candidates equally. This should happen at both the state and national levels.
Originally posted by frazzle
reply to post by HopSkipJump
they (perks) exist BECAUSE we have a government. If we had no government, you would have no services. Unless you are able to exist, on your own, without any services that exist, you are a hypocrite. You are showing that you do not exist on your own because you are right here, right now.
Government doesn't invent anything, they just regulate PEOPLE'S inventions. How do you know that if government hadn't taken control of Tesla's inventions we wouldn't all be enjoying FREE electricity right now, plus many other perks of his genius? And he's just one.
Find me one government employee ~ just one, on this list of famous inventors.
www.buzzle.com...
Me a hypocrite? Well at least I don't think we're all too stupid to breathe on our own like you apparently do.
Originally posted by HopSkipJump
Originally posted by groingrinder
The big problem as I see it is that we DO NOT GET TO CHOOSE OUR LEADERS. We get to choose between the Democrat thieving liar or the Republican thieving liar who are shoved down our throats by the corrupt system. This is because the corrupt political system depends on HUGE cash donations from corrupt corporations. Thus an honest independent candidate will never get elected.
Once we decouple the corporate cash from the political system, then we will have a shot at honest representative government again. ALL money donated should be anonymous. It should be put into a pool and distributed to ALL candidates equally. This should happen at both the state and national levels.
You do make good points.
Now the question is, how do we go about changing it and repairing our nation as opposed to wanting to secede as traitors?
It is the job of the patriots to fix the problems that exist. You are offering possible solutions as opposed to abandonment, that is the act of a patriot as opposed to a traitor.
Originally posted by Observor
Who said anything about any political party? What is wrong with trying to dissociate oneself from a nation that no longer represents what some believed it did when joining it? Texas wan't always part of the US.
Originally posted by SaturnFX
Originally posted by frazzle
Government does not provide electricity or monetary income or transportation or the internet or any of the other perks of your everyday life. Those perks are provided by private, for profit corporations upon which you are dependent, and for which you must pay with money borrowed, at interest, from one of the above named corporations. Government's role is to protect those corporations by regulating you and taxing you for the privilege.
They win, you lose.
edit on 20-1-2013 by frazzle because: (no reason given)
Government provides infrastructure
So all that stuff you mentioned would not be possible without the government to begin with.
What use is a net ready computer without the internet established to begin with. What use is electronics without a national power grid? What use is a car when no roads are paved and no national highway system created.
Government has a very strong role in maintaining the country, and also progressing us into new eras. They don't (aren't supposed to) protect any company, but rather to protect any company's ability to use the infrastructure to further their businesses.
This too big to fail crap is crap. This comes from a flaw in capitalism and lack of regulations that allows for a company to grow too large, threatening the economic fundamentals, but that's a different argument.
The Energy Crisis is a lie, the problem was solved 100 years ago by a scientist named Nikola Tesla.
He had discovered a way to harness the naturally occurring electricity from the ionosphere, and then in turn rebroadcast it to individual relay stations that could be placed anywhere and were no larger then your average car antenna.
Each primary tower could produce renewable, safe, clean electricity, and would then broadcast it wirelessly to points as far (as his experiments in Colorado springs showed) as 30 miles away from the primary tower.
Nikola Tesla's primary investor, J.P. Morgan, thought he was investing in the world's first radio tower, but unknown to him, that was only one of its purposes and capabilities.
Originally posted by jimmyx
reply to post by HopSkipJump
i think the patriot act and the NDAA need some serious revision, especially the parts that directly violate a number of our oringinal ten amendments...when a US citizens voice can be silenced due to indefinite incarceration, that is what dictatorships, and police states have in common.
Originally posted by frazzle
A confederacy between the states could provide all the infrastructure we could ever need every bit as efficiently (did I actually use that word?) as the feds.
If you are opposed to the government they set up, then you are not a patriot.
Originally posted by SaturnFX
Well, we choose our leaders in the same way we choose our talent on American Idol.
Corporations are people and all that.
This is indeed a issue, my sarcasm aside. What is the fix? Simple...heavy regulations of corporations influencing any election.
Once these regulations are in place, mainstream media can be hammered for giving more airtime to the R or D when there are viable I's out there.
Until then...meh, its a corporate puppet game.
Now, those people frustrated..thats where their true angst lies...a corporate ownership of information.
Also one area where both D's and R's demand a free and unobstructed internet...its perhaps the only level playing field we got in regards to getting information (or spin) out...when our voice is equal to that of a gigantic corporate campaign.
Often there is discussion of getting the internet as a subscription based thing to act more like cable (buy the gold package for 40 bucks a year and you get youtube, Netflix, msn live, etc etc etc)...everytime such talks are nailed to a cross.
The network television actually needs to be more like the internet...with your own choice, and the words of the small equal to that of the tall.
But this is a fight of the citizen V corporation..not the citizen V government anyhow...
Originally posted by frazzle
Find me one government employee ~ just one, on this list of famous inventors.
Benjamin Franklin
Benjamin Franklin is famous for inventing the lightning rod and the accompanying anecdote of him having flown a kite in a storm in order to prove his hypothesis. He also invented bifocals, the Franklin stove, a carriage odometer, and also a musical instrument known as glass armonica. Franklin was a noted polymath, and was a central figure in early American politics; he was one of the Founding Fathers of the United States.
Originally posted by beezzer
Biden says how it's patriotic to pay higher taxes.
Originally posted by HopSkipJump
Originally posted by beezzer
Biden says how it's patriotic to pay higher taxes.
Biden is an idiot
Just like Dan Quayle was an idiot
...and Dick Cheney was an evil monster
We have to stop beingn controlled by political extremes and come together as citizens of our country and solve these problems