Controversy as 200 Utah teachers to be given concealed weapons training in wake of Sandy Hook

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posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 12:20 PM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


I get it, you fear an inanimate object like children fear the boogeyman.

But, your what if is still that, a what if.




posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


www.disastercenter.com...

Here are some murder stats per year. As you can see, the murder rate has continued to fall even after the ban on assault weapons was lifted. In fact, crime in general has fallen even after the ban was lifted even though our population has continued to increase. You're going to need a new leg to stand on if you want to have a compelling argument.



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 12:33 PM
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Originally posted by FeatherofMaat
Talk about the morons leading the idiots.

How'd those well trained armed guards at Columbine work out for you gun nuts? (There were two of them) Not so well.


Now I agree there entirely. I wasn't aware Columbine HS HAD openly armed guards at the time of the massacre but I never bothered to look either way on that detail, so I'll take your word for it. They focused so strongly on explosives in that attack and not guns, I've never paid much more attention to their guns than the last ditch 'tools' of destruction they eventually became to those killers. Their bombs failed to work...Thank God..and it saved a school.

However, in the case of openly armed guards? What good are they?? The DO teach the kids to become conditioned to and accept absolute authority with life and death power in their immediate daily life and from a very young age. That it DOES do...nothing much else though.

I mean, to play devil's advocate again...and I won't play this with a school scenario so bear with my example... but lets say I wanted to massacre a grocery store. That grocery store has a BIG Hulk Hogan looking guy with a BIG gun and every anxious sign he's happy to use it. I.E....the worst security guard one could imagine meeting as a criminal. Well.. Okay.... Even he has to DO something occasionally ...and as soon as he becomes focused on anything from writing a report to helping a customer ....as a criminal looking to kill everyone anyway? His shift in attention will form his last act guarding the store...and he'll never have had a chance to try or know who or why reality literally just ended for him. ....then the real horror begins and the guard even added a gun to the criminal's kit! eek!

On the other hand...if half the clerks have guns...my poor little tail is Rabbit Stew that night after they clean the rest of me up with pooper scoopers and sandwich baggies....after half a dozen panicky clerks just empty guns.

(Deterrence works by CCW...not open carry. Open Carry means you are the first to be shot. That's all)



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 

Ft Hood is not a viable example in this discussion.
(i cannot believe you would go there
)

Ratzmann - please prove that a LCG church is not a gun free zone ?

Giffords - from the AZ Senator himself ...

www.1041thetruth.com...
Thirty seven mass shootings recorded over 10 years, all but one has occurred in a gun free zone. That one was when Arizona Congresswoman, Gabby Gifford was shot in Tucson on January 8, 2011 near a supermarket. The killers know those areas are places they can kill the most people, the least amount of security, and the least amount of fire arm retaliation. Many end up committing suicide after police arrive on the scene.

and from the mall shooting ...

www.foxnews.com...
But despite the massive news coverage, none of the media coverage, at least by 10 a.m. Thursday, mentioned this central fact: Yet another attack occurred in a gun-free zone.

so, back to your assertion, as the AZ Senator clearly states ... out of a recorded 37 incidents, only one happened in a non-gun-free-zone and remarkably, that single incident doesn't support your assertions at all.

care to try again ?



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 01:39 PM
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Maybe we should train them how to operate fighter jets too so they can patrol the school grounds from above during recess.



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by WhereIsTheBatman
 



but Carol Lear, a chief lawyer for the Utah Office of Education said that the move was a 'terrible idea.'


Terrible idea...yeah ok when you come up with a plan that is better let us know ASAP. Freaking ignorant tards what do you expect to stop maniacs from shooting you...diplomacy....HA!



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by streetfightingman
Maybe we should train them how to operate fighter jets too so they can patrol the school grounds from above during recess.


You got a better idea genius? Seriously when you come up with one let us know oh great one. Tell us how to stop this madness or otherwise your just a pointless youtube comment. (troll) I'm a troll too sometimes but atleast I keep it real.
edit on 28-12-2012 by Evanzsayz because: (no reason given)
edit on 28-12-2012 by Evanzsayz because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 02:07 PM
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Originally posted by MJZoo
reply to post by nixie_nox
 


www.disastercenter.com...

Here are some murder stats per year. As you can see, the murder rate has continued to fall even after the ban on assault weapons was lifted. In fact, crime in general has fallen even after the ban was lifted even though our population has continued to increase. You're going to need a new leg to stand on if you want to have a compelling argument.

The blind will not even look at the stats because it does not agree with their emotions...

The only way to stop a force is to apply an equal and opposite force. Sound familiar?
Maybe we should start a petition to have all government offices and locations declared a gun free zones.

No elected or appointed official can hire armed body guards or carry any type of fire arm. Guns are the problem then lead by example! Naw can't do that there are to many people who might use force or do harm......and besides their lives are more important than ours...you do not even have to ask them; actions always speak louder than mere words.



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by streetfightingman
 

no silly, that'll be "urban drone training exercises" ...

hmmmm, so maybe that's why the primary UAV training grounds are in Utah ...



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by boymonkey74
How long until an overworked Teacher loses it and shoots his/her class?
Or how long until a student gets hold of the firearm and uses it?
Madness complete madness.


then lets just get rid of the police and every other agency that carries a gun because they can "go mad" one day and shoot a few people

im sure the people in the next shooting would appreciate that when the police arrive unarmed or with some pepper spray and a taser.

whats the difference between a cop and a teacher when both have had similar training? they are still our neighbors. i know, you're just scared of Americans



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by 727Sky
 


Maybe we should start a petition to have all government offices and locations declared a gun free zones.
they already are but i'm leaning toward a petition to encourage all gun owners to begin utilizing gun control activists for target practice ...


that's one sure fire way to silence this nonsense.
(sarcasm and pun intended)



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by Teye22
 


No, we are not equals. I am not a citizen of the world nor am I a subject of the crown.
Oh, and the comment about making decisions for others? That is rich. I do recall it is liberals that hold that crown, you know with restrictive gun laws and all.



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by nixie_nox
 


Ah, the Giffords shooting is your excuse? The one out of how many?
Oh, an the area/building that that piece of crap shot the GIs in at Ft Hood was a firearm free area.
Nice try.



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by WhereIsTheBatman
 


result - the teachers will be the first victims in any future utah school shooting


Yup.

How long until a highschool teacher is jumped from behind and his/her weapon stolen and used against them? How long until a teacher snaps and goes on a rampage?

I think they need to have "school marshalls" like they have sky marshalls. You're never really sure if one is on your plane or not, so it's a good idea to be on your best behavior.

The exterior doors need to be locked at all times from the inside, and during school hours anyone entering should have to buzz in.

If the crackheads living in the apt. complex across the street have to buzz in to get to their buddies place, why can't our schools have the same thing? Install a $200 camera as well.

Then, all classroom doors should always be kept shut, and locked from the inside. Someone strolling the halls should not be able to just walk into a classroom.
edit on 28-12-2012 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 03:25 PM
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As far as I know, there's not been a teacher who has snapped and thrown erasers at kids. Or choked them with their bare hands. Or poked their eyes out with pencils. Or slammed their heads against the walls. Or...

So, you're really saying that the only thing preventing a teacher from snapping is a gun? That if a teacher was going to snap, they couldn't do something drastic because they don't have a gun?

You do so the idiocy of this argument, don't you?

Just curious... I would love stats on how many CCW/CHL holders snap and use their guns on an innocent party?

Anyone care to provide those stats?

I think what non-CCW/CHL holders/gun advocates FAIL to realize is that CHL/CCW holders understand the importance of TRAINING with their weapon. So, to assert there is no training is false. In fact, I'm certain that CHL/CCW holders train more than most police officers and federal law enforcement. In fact, my hubby was in federal law enforcement. He said those guys rarely went to the range to practice... they only did so in order to do their annual qualification.

So, tell me again how untrained CCW/CHL holders are? And how irresponsible they are? And how a teacher has to have a gun in order to do harm?

And while you're telling me, please provide some stats to back up your claims.

Thanks in advance.



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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If people are going to equip teachers with lethal force then they need to be tested to ensure they can handle it and should matters go wrong in their life they're good enough to hand back the weapons as who wants a suicidal teacher with a gun and 50 rounds in a room that they can lock from within?



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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My mother and sister are both teachers. My sister teaches highschool, and my mother teaches gradeschool. Neither of them want to carry a gun.

When I was in Jr. High we had a teacher grab a kid and throw him into a wall of lockers. Of course it was his word vs. the teacher -- and the teacher prevailed (despite us seeing it happen).

Teachers are people too -- and their job is getting increasingly harder each year. Many teachers have their performance evaluations tied into the their student's test scores.

What happens when you teach at a low-income school where the kids get ZERO help or support from their parents and families? And when you call the parents...they don't speak english.

Do you think you're going to get good test scores? A good evaluation? That alone would be grounds for some long-time teachers to snap. The stress level teachers today have to put up with because of "no child left behind" grows every year.

Parents are to busy working 3 jobs just to stay afloat to instill in their children a sense that education is important. It's either that, or their selfish and just don't care about their kids. Teachers have to put up with that, and it's getting worse each year!



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by MystikMushroom

Teachers are people too -- and their job is getting increasingly harder each year. Many teachers have their performance evaluations tied into the their student's test scores.

What happens when you teach at a low-income school where the kids get ZERO help or support from their parents and families? And when you call the parents...they don't speak english.

Do you think you're going to get good test scores? A good evaluation? That alone would be grounds for some long-time teachers to snap. The stress level teachers today have to put up with because of "no child left behind" grows every year.

Parents are to busy working 3 jobs just to stay afloat to instill in their children a sense that education is important. It's either that, or their selfish and just don't care about their kids. Teachers have to put up with that, and it's getting worse each year!


And amazingly, none have snapped yet. Carrying a gun isn't going to change that.

Arm the teachers that want to be armed. Those that don't, don't get armed. (Or let them step into the gunfire first...)

Really, this isn't rocket science. And all of these "arguments" have no basis, no stats, and no logic to back them up.



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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Well, next they'll have the power to defend themselves against 6 and 7 year olds, kicking them and shoot the students?

Really, home school time.



posted on Dec, 28 2012 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by lilmehere
 


I agree with most of what you just said. My mother and sister don't want to be armed, but they don't have a problem with other teachers who want to take on that extra responsiblity.

Most of the teachers at their respective schools have been there for years, and know eachother very well. I would trust the staff to make the determination on which teachers could be armed.

I still think the idea of "school marshalls" that rotate at random between schools is a good one.
edit on 28-12-2012 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)





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