Controversy as 200 Utah teachers to be given concealed weapons training in wake of Sandy Hook

Originally posted by camaro68ss
I see no controversy here, my great grandma use to go to school packing heat 100 years ago. No school shootings back then.

Makes you go hummm......

Yeah, they had to use bombs then like in Bath, MI...

Crazy is crazy no matter what way you look at it. Just goes to show if someone wants to hurt someone. They will...

CCW in schools should be a no brainer... Good for Utah

I wrote in a since closed thread about this incident fueling lots of camps.

While most people see this as a false flag to enforce more stringent gun laws the alternative view is that this was a false flag to ENFORCE gun law....

make it COMPULSORY for guns in ALL schools

and ALL public places in the good ol' USA ( I am a brit)

Sandy Hook happening before Xmas with kids as victims means that

a) No witness testimony. (6 year old kids can't be questioned)
b) Christmas stuff/media takes over.
c) Questioning the MSM results in vilification.

This could be a false-false flag in that it will actually INCREASE the number of guns.

The US is mental.
I love mental stuff but your gun thing is nuts.

Teachers should be armed to the teeth. They are the first responders in the event of a shooting massacre. By the time local authorities get there it's too late. The goal is prevention of loss of life, and it begins with actually being able to defend the kids. This is not the time for giving Obama his way like a stubborn child throwing a tantrum. Gun control is the issue, implementing more of it will not end this, it'll make it worse by taking away the right of the people to defend themselves. Take convicted felons, they already by law cannot possess firearms, yet when they are reapprehended most of the time they have a firearm on them which should be illegal as it is but it doesn't stop a person who has a mind to break the law. Laws only effect law abiding citizens, someone of the criminal persuasion/inclination won;t think twice about breaking them. So you see where this would end? It would end with not doing a damn bit of good but doing more harm in the end and that is what Liberals do, they are shortsighted people looking for a government quick fix and when the government's quick fix fubars, they want the government to fix that too which makes it even worse.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
How long until an overworked Teacher loses it and shoots his/her class?
Or how long until a student gets hold of the firearm and uses it?
Madness complete madness.

1) Stop overworking/under paying the teachers and we won't have a problem . Seriously, if it was going to happen - I doubt whether or not they can LEGALLY carry in the school is going to make a single bit of difference.

2) That won't happen...unless of course you are planning on letting teachers carry without psych exams and training.... "Keep your weapon on your hip at all times".....not hard to teach is it...?

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by WhereIsTheBatman

 

result - the teachers will be the first victims in any future utah school shooting

I doubt there will be a future Utah school shooting after this. Crime flows to the path of least resistance, not most.

Originally posted by NarrowGate

Originally posted by boymonkey74
How long until an overworked Teacher loses it and shoots his/her class?
Or how long until a student gets hold of the firearm and uses it?
Madness complete madness.

1) Stop overworking/under paying the teachers and we won't have a problem

. Seriously, if it was going to happen - I doubt whether or not they can LEGALLY carry in the school is going to make a single bit of difference.

2) That won't happen...unless of course you are planning on letting teachers carry without psych exams and training.... "Keep your weapon on your hip at all times".....not hard to teach is it...?

edit on 28-12-2012 by NarrowGate because: (no reason given)

Did you just say "underpaying"? How many days a year does a school teacher work?

(They work between 191 and 210 days a year)

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Is this a joke? IDK depends on the teacher....

The fact that we underpay and overwork our teachers is a major factor in the degredation of society but ok.... let's just justify it away.....

We overwork and underpay just about everyone nowadays. "We" being them - the one percent, in this case.

Don't fall for the propaganda, society is not degrading because of lazy people. It is degrading because of idol worship and greedy people.

My concern is, I have not known public school teachers to be necessarily.. the most emotionally stable people in the world. I wonder that, were they armed, how long would it take before one of them has a breakdown in class (I've seen it happen) and just shoots one or more student(s)?

reply to post by Monger


This is exactly what I've been saying.

I already brought up the example of the teacher I witnessed throwing a kid into some lockers. Another teacher I saw ran out of our classroom in tears and didn't come back until the next day.

What do you expect? The demands on teachers are growing every year -- and the "home life" of their students is going down the toilet.

Instead of spending time with their kids, parents throw an iPad at their kid and tell them to leave them alone. The economy is having unforeseen consquences, and one of them is parents are stressed and over worked. When you have stressed out and over worked parents -- you get crappy parenting.

I hear it all the time -- how it's a constant battle to get through to kids nowadays. Kids don't care because their parents don't seem to care.

Lets face it, the problem is, at it's very core, murder. The intentional taking of a life for maliscious ends. It doesn't matter what method you use, death on a mass scale can happen, and does. Need I point out the OK City Bombing?

The debate seems to be centered around firearms, when in reality, it's the people behind them that's at issue here. If we were to illegalize all guns, I need to ask everyone, what would the People do to defend themselves? Everyone, worldwide, has an innate, god-given right to self-defense. What then shall one do when they are presented with a situation where they are unarmed, and incapable of defending thsmevles, simply because of some law passed by beaurocrats in DC? As the aforementioned OKC incident illustrates, when someone wants to kill en-masse, they will. You'll notice that all of the components to compose such a weapon are still legal to purchase, and use for safe purposes. The reason for this is because people realized that it's a rediculous notion to illegalize something that criminals will get anyway.

And while we'e talking weapons of mass destruction, why not mention cars. Vehicles kill many more people a year than guns do, and yet no one's calling for them to be illegalized. Why? Alcohol-related deaths are also high. Do we illegalize alcohol too? we know how that ended the last time we tried it....

My point here is folks, that it's not the guns that should be the focus here. It's the education behind those that use them that is. If people are properly educated in how to use, handle, and keep a firearm when they get it, I am certain that those that are armed will be more responsive when the situation arises to use them.

TheBorg

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Reality hits like a ton of bricks.

The more dedicated you are to living in fantasy world the harder it slams down on your head.

At least these teachers arent so delusional they'd ignore a chance to catch up with reality when offered.

Gun-free is a fantasy. Even zealots like Michael Moore concede to that:

And here's the dirty little fact none of us liberals want to discuss: The killer only ceased his slaughter when he saw that cops were swarming onto the school grounds -- i.e, the men with the guns. When he saw the guns a-coming, he stopped the bloodshed and killed himself.

link

Moore saying the same thing LaPierre was mocked for saying. The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.

I agree with you and I do not have a problem with these teachers having guns. My concern is, let's make sure we don't have any psychopaths as teachers that will be armed. Second off, I don't send my kid off to public school so we do the protecting around here ourselves. I wish more parents would consider home school. I realize that not all can't do this, but it is the best place for a child to be. I would not place the life of my child or their protection in the hands of someone else.

A gun free country is a fantasy. People will still find ways to procure weapons and the crime rate will sky rocket. People will find other ways to make weapons of all kinds. If we take away guns and someone starts using bow and arrow, will we then ban bow and arrows?

We can't wrap the people in cotton wool and pray that the bogeyman doesn't come.

Oh sure, this idea is fantastic until some strung out teacher who's had enough of the constant abuse from the children goes berserk in the classroom one day, probably with the gun he was suppose to use to protect the kids

Originally posted by manmental
I wrote in a since closed thread about this incident fueling lots of camps.

While most people see this as a false flag to enforce more stringent gun laws the alternative view is that this was a false flag to ENFORCE gun law....

make it COMPULSORY for guns in ALL schools

and ALL public places in the good ol' USA ( I am a brit)

Sandy Hook happening before Xmas with kids as victims means that

a) No witness testimony. (6 year old kids can't be questioned)
b) Christmas stuff/media takes over.
c) Questioning the MSM results in vilification.

This could be a false-false flag in that it will actually INCREASE the number of guns.

The US is mental.
I love mental stuff but your gun thing is nuts.

The thing is this and let's not forget a little piece of history concerning our rights to bear arms and what happens when we are disarmed:

Wounded Knee for example.

When Big Foot's clan was rounded up and taken back to the Pine Ridge agency, the first thing that took place was disarmament. When the soldiers were going through the tipi's and forcing the indians to hand over their weapons (including knives and arrows), Yellow Bird began to do a dance, throwing up dirt in the air, out of his disgust for how they were being treated. Because of the Ghost Dance scare, they thought he was doing a Ghost Dance, and this set the soldiers nerves on end. Many stories have been told about this, but the one that is right is the one I was told. Once they were disarmed, the plan was to kill them all. And they did, with only a small few escaping and living long enough to tell what they saw.

Key word, they took the guns, they took the power of a nation away from them. Generations have been affected by their genocide and tyranny.

Now, in the year 2012- 2013, we have people say "Oh, that'll never happen to us. They aren't taking our guns, they aren't going to kill us, they wouldn't hurt their own people".

Really?

The same leaders we have in D.C. come from a long line of people who do not give a damn about you or what happens to you.

They'll blow out two towers for an agenda, killing thousands. Think they won't pass around small pox blankets again? Bird flu? Sars? And what was the latest ... swine flu?

We need our guns to defend ourselves. I don't want guns in the hands of law enforcement and military ONLY. Because time has proven that those in power are sick in the head and they are not to be trusted either. You take away guns, you give more power to those in power who will misuse it for evil.

I was at the BART station the night a young black man, cuffed behind his back was shot and killed as he sat on his knees and did nothing to resist arrest.

Is that the country you want to live in? You want evil people in power to have all the power?

THOSE are the GUN NUTS. Not responsible gun owners like me who use my guns for protection and hunting.

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum
Oh sure, this idea is fantastic until some strung out teacher who's had enough of the constant abuse from the children goes berserk in the classroom one day, probably with the gun he was suppose to use to protect the kids

Oh I forgot, the Gun Free School Zone will prevent said teacher from bringing a gun anyway when they snap.

Originally posted by Merlin Lawndart

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by sconner755

 

Do the police get psyche evaluations? they get lots more training to fire a gun.
Teachers are not trained and a 3 day course is not going to make them experts in firearms.
Mind you at least they will get no more chat back from the students.

Dude, cops in the US are trigger happy. They will shoot your dog in a fenced in yard, just happened twice in Chicago. I would trust a teacher with a gun any day over a cop.

Chicago has some mean dogs up in thar. I said mean.

reply to post by WhereIsTheBatman



Some people don't seem ready to trust teachers with a gun yet we seem ready to trust them with our children's minds?

What's more dangerous?

Originally posted by sconner755

Originally posted by boymonkey74
How long until an overworked Teacher loses it and shoots his/her class?
Or how long until a student gets hold of the firearm and uses it?
Madness complete madness.

Yes, maybe we should rethink police having guns too. I mean how long before an overworked cop loses it? How long before somebody grabs a gun from a cop and shoots people.

Madness is planning on not being able to defend the students from crazies with guns.

Police use what is called a Level 3 Holster, which contains within it, 3 different mechanisms that must be released in a particular order in a particular way, before the firearm can be removed from the Holster. This prevents a "bad guy" from obtaining the weapon from a distracted cop, or if said "bad guy" assaults the cop.

In the event that Teacher's are allowed to carry a firearm, and they choose to do so, this could be a solution to prevent Students from obtaining the weapon from a Teacher in the same manner it prevents the aforementioned "bad guy" from obtaining an Officers firearm.

Originally posted by Teye22
reply to post by MysterX

 

Though you do have a point....if the police arrive and there are 10 people shooting....how will the police know who the criminal is?..teachers could get shot by police too.....and bullets do go through walls you know......the kids can be hiding in their classrooms and take a shot!

All you got are these bad case turnouts. Anything beats letting a nut just roam through the complex firing at will. Jezzy.

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum
Oh sure, this idea is fantastic until some strung out teacher who's had enough of the constant abuse from the children goes berserk in the classroom one day, probably with the gun he was suppose to use to protect the kids

Not moved. Not moved one bit here. Not feeling this.