Controversy as 200 Utah teachers to be given concealed weapons training in wake of Sandy Hook

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posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 03:10 AM
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Originally posted by skitzspiricy
If this was implemented in every school across the US, there could be so many scenarios that could go horribly wrong.

It boggles my mind. But, hey... Each to their own.


I don't see your logic.

When I'm at an airport I feel safe with armed security. When I'm in a city and police are around I feel safe. When I was walking towards the Leaning Tower of Pisa at night, and when I visited Naples, there were no police and I was looking over my shoulder, literally, every step I took.

So you're saying it's safer having no protection? Can you clarify?




posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 03:18 AM
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Its only controversial for people who don't even know why they hate guns and are only on the bandwagon because their party or their idols are telling them thats what they should be thinking.

HUGE
to teachers across the nation taking up arms/defense classes and getting their CCW permits.

Schools don't need armed guards (HELLO NRA), they just need teachers who know how to procedurally protect their students in certain scenarios.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 03:32 AM
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Originally posted by lilmehere

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum
Oh sure, this idea is fantastic until some strung out teacher who's had enough of the constant abuse from the children goes berserk in the classroom one day, probably with the gun he was suppose to use to protect the kids


Let me get this straight...

You trust these teachers with your kids, 8 hours per day, 5 days a week, for 3-5 years, UNARMED.

Throw a gun in the mix and suddenly the teachers have turned into Charles Manson and you can't turn your back on them.

Got it.



The point is, you give ANYONE a gun and it can potentially make them a killer, albeit accidental or otherwise.
edit on 29-12-2012 by Zcustosmorum because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 03:33 AM
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Originally posted by sconner755

Originally posted by skitzspiricy
If this was implemented in every school across the US, there could be so many scenarios that could go horribly wrong.

It boggles my mind. But, hey... Each to their own.


I don't see your logic.

When I'm at an airport I feel safe with armed security. When I'm in a city and police are around I feel safe. When I was walking towards the Leaning Tower of Pisa at night, and when I visited Naples, there were no police and I was looking over my shoulder, literally, every step I took.

So you're saying it's safer having no protection? Can you clarify?


Being from the UK i have no protection. I don't fear being mugged or attacked by a crazed gunman, even someone wielding a knife.

I don't have to look over my shoulder wondering if some crazed person is going to attack me and take my life.
I feel safe on the streets, in my home, and i felt safe in school and college.

I'm a Female who has been in a situation where i was nearly mugged. The guy said he had a knife (i believe he had a stanley knife when later picked up by the police).
When he approached and tried to intimidate me, i shouted for help and nearly kicked him in the jewels. He ran off as others approached. I would say i was very lucky. But yet i'm still able to walk around at night without fear of it happening again and without any form of protection (knife, mase, etc).

If he had a gun who knows, perhaps i still would have done the same, perhaps i would have froze on the spot and gave him everything, or perhaps i wouldn't be here to tell this story. That wasn't the case though.

This may seem strange to people living in the US, just as you wanting all and sundry to conceal carry is to some of us here in the UK, But i will not spend my life living in fear.

edit on 29-12-2012 by skitzspiricy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 04:13 AM
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reply to post by boymonkey74
 


You're missing the point monkey-man.
By the time that lot of over-trained shooters roll up it's too late!
The killing has been done and it's all over.
While that lot of tax-paid crown-agents were getting ready an armed citizen could of stopped the bad guy there and then!

This is why the UK is an oppressed serf-nation, they actually swallow and preach the lies fed to them by the media.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 04:15 AM
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Originally posted by skitzspiricy
If this was implemented in every school across the US, there could be so many scenarios that could go horribly wrong.

It boggles my mind. But, hey... Each to their own.


I want to clarify my post a little more.

This is an incredibly emotionally charged subject. Young innocent children were killed along with their poor teachers. But i think at present a lot of you are allowing your emotions to rule and not thinking about possible consequences for arming your teachers.

These are all what if's, but very plausible what ifs in my opinion. And please, lets not get into a "You're not a US Citizen so you have no right to speak about US issues" debate.

What if 1:
Suicide by teacher. Yes, the old craze of pretending to have a weapon and not, but teacher kills student just in case. Works with the police, so it will work with Teacher who CC's, because after all, they are there to protetct the rest of the class. The poor teacher will be traumatised for life as well as the rest of the class.

What if 2:
Any warped kids who attend schools with teachers who CC will not actually have to worry about where to get their guns from. Just knock the teacher out and they have a weapon to shoot the class up. Whether it be a revolver or a pistol with a clip. There will be carnage regardless.

What if 3:
A teacher who CC's flips out. Now think of how many schools are in the US, from Elementary to Middle to High School. If they are all armed, that raises the odds quite dramatically.

What if 4:
A lot of kids, especially teenagers, tend to have a lack of respect and fear for just about most adults. You may think that with Teachers carrying weapons, that would diminish. But one kid betting the other that he could grab his Teachers holstered gun for #'s and giggles is going to come off very badly.

What if 5:
A crazed gun man walks in off the street. Starts shooting up the place. Teachers pull their guns. They may have had training, but training doesn't take in the factor of fight or flight. Some may hide away, others may shoot blindly all over the place and through walls, and some may actually manage to get the shooter. But the Teachers that shoot blindly, may actually cause more damage.

There are many other "what if" scenarios that i would just like some of you to think about. Put away your emotions for 5 minutes, look at the bigger pictire and think logically about this. This could potentially be more damaging than the odd shooter coming in off the street.

Flame away.

edit on 29-12-2012 by skitzspiricy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 04:21 AM
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Originally posted by WatchRider
reply to post by boymonkey74
 



This is why the UK is an oppressed serf-nation, they actually swallow and preach the lies fed to them by the media.


The greatest trick the Governments have pulled on Western Countries is to make their people believe they are free, when in reality they are not.

Our freedom is an illusion as is yours.

Your rights are slowly and subtly being stripped away. It has been happening for years.

You may have guns and your constitution, but you are just as oppressed as the rest of us.

edit on 29-12-2012 by skitzspiricy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 04:26 AM
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reply to post by Thunder heart woman
 


Well said sister!
Back in Europe the Romans did the same thing when they took over a province. ALL weapons denoting warrior status were outlawed. Swords, Bows, spears, you name it. Were all taken. If you Romanised (converted) and joined them you could have arms but you'd better get used to life as an auxillary and being hated by your own people.
This is one of the reasons the Roman Empire was hated so much and ended up torn to pieces by vengeful barbarians.

When people talk about the glories of the Roman system (which by the way is what the Federal Government follows) I remind them of the holocaust against the Celts and Gauls (Caesar alone slew a million by his own reckoning). First they take your weapons away, then you are easy prey for the horror show.

This concept has not changed since then, they are just a lot more sneaky and insidious about it.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 04:27 AM
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reply to post by skitzspiricy
 


I am from the UK originally, but happen to have a brain between my ears to see the truth of what goes on in the world.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 04:28 AM
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Originally posted by WatchRider
reply to post by skitzspiricy
 


I am from the UK originally, but happen to have a brain between my ears to see the truth of what goes on in the world.


As do i.

I don't fall for the illusion that i am free, like you seem to.

edit on 29-12-2012 by skitzspiricy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 05:32 AM
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reply to post by 101Force
 


Agreed. Like I said in another thread, in the case of America there is an underlying social/mental issue that is causing the mass killings. Take away guns and you'll have mass stabbings. Take away stabbings and you'll have mass forkings/lead pipe attacks, take away all cutlery and sticks and people will start beating each other to death with their fists.

Giving all teachers a gun, or NOT giving all teachers a gun does not resolve the actual problem. It's just a pointless exercise to make it look like politicians are doing something about the problem. Only time will tell but I have a sneaking suspicion over the next few years you're not going to see a reduction in mass shootings at utah schools...because guns aren't the root problem, social/mental unstability is. The hard part is working out what's causing the instability and finding a way to fix it. Going back to good ole american values probably would be a good start.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 05:34 AM
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I think the idea of teachers with guns is absolutely insane! If someone owns a gun, for sure he will use it and I'm completely against presence of any guns near my children! Police with guns is fine, but teachers are not. How it will help? All these crazy people who committed massacres at schools always start with teachers. And what if teacher loses his temper, takes his gun and start shooting the class? It's impossible you will say, but with everyday I feel more and more scared, because nobody in fact protects us and our children. Otherwise there will be no such tragic events...



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 05:39 AM
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All dots connected. Finally here is your answer!
johnkettler.com...

After this I found this!
youtu.be...

School shooting is connected with Libor scandal.
Father of Adam Lanza is Libor scandal witness.
And more watch this video!



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 07:07 AM
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i don't think Americans have much alternative. Supplying every school in the USA with a highly trained armed guard would cost $6 billion a year



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 08:36 AM
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reply to post by WhereIsTheBatman
 
This is Good, but..... Utah is not a state notorious for mass murders. The states where the problems lie, will very likely not adopt like measures, prodded by liberals. And that is sad. It's sad the world has even come to this, but look what we teach our children in the video games we indulge them by buying for them. You think that videos are not a learning device. Just as brainwashing, violent games are learned, and the rewards for being superior and adept in them.
Just as military get hazardous duty pay, shouldn't we now give it to teachers who will carry....?
The calm idyllic life we grew up in for the most part, is just a footnote in history books.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by Monger


I'm speaking as somebody who, at the age of 7, was physically assaulted by a school teacher. I was shook and slapped and then shook some more for good measure by a belligerent old woman who had no place in a school in the first place. My crime? Crying in class, as a 7 year old, because the psychotic old biddy was screaming her lungs off at everybody. Guess she was having a bad day. I'll never forget the suddenness of her attack, and how helpless it made me feel. If that moron had had a gun, whos to say what might have transpired?


Sounds like the LAW would not stop her, if she wanted a firearm on her person anyways.

How many times does it have to be spelled out???
The laws only stop people that are lawful minded.
If someone is going to snap, no law is going to stop them from doing what they set out to do.

Your what if at the end of your story is still a what if.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 09:53 AM
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reply to post by 101Force
 


reply to post by LordGoofus
 


The Gun Free School Zone will protect the children.
There is no possible way for a teacher to bring a firearm into one of these areas, after they have snapped and shoot kids. It is dimensionally impossible, as the firearm is an object that can't occupy the space within one of these areas.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 09:55 AM
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reply to post by Zcustosmorum
 


NO NO NO.
Giving someone a gun does not make them a killer.

A person is a killer regardless.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 09:56 AM
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How long until an overworked Teacher loses it and shoots his/her class? Or how long until a student gets hold of the firearm and uses it? Madness complete madness.
reply to post by boymonkey74
 


As a teacher, it's nice to see that someone realizes this possibility. I sometimes think the general population just doesn't realize the current atmosphere in today's high schools.

Today's high schools have students intimidating and physically attacking teachers. I can't even begin to think what classrooms are like in the inner city schools located in large metropolitan cities. They're dealing with students on a daily basis who are members of street gangs.

Some high schools already have metal detectors and students are searched as they enter the high school. Most schools around the country have unannounced locker searches. There are high school students who already have a criminal rap sheet and are on parole.

Sometimes the criminal element is lurking within the school. In my school alone, just this year, we caught a student trying to poison a teacher by pouring cutting oil in his coffee! Thank goodness there was another student who had the moral fortitude to point out the student who did it.

I don't have a problem with having armed security guards and camera surveillance inside the hallways and outside of our schools. The current problem with security is they sit in an office all day until a teacher notifies the office for help. They should be actively walking around the building and hallways of the school. Their presence also keeps students out of control behavior in check. Lets keep the guns in the hands of trained officers and not a teacher who is armed and who maybe over stressed and near their breaking point.



posted on Dec, 29 2012 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by salld
I think the idea of teachers with guns is absolutely insane! If someone owns a gun, for sure he will use it and I'm completely against presence of any guns near my children! Police with guns is fine, but teachers are not. How it will help? All these crazy people who committed massacres at schools always start with teachers. And what if teacher loses his temper, takes his gun and start shooting the class? It's impossible you will say, but with everyday I feel more and more scared, because nobody in fact protects us and our children. Otherwise there will be no such tragic events...


What prevents teachers who are unarmed from picking up any other object around them that can be used as a weapon and attacking students? Them having a firearm does not magically make them more likely harm their students.






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