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I am a British Citizen NOT an “English Subject”!!!

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posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:20 AM
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Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


ok, but have you EVER in your life said God save the queen? sworn an oath to her majesty or in any way made a pledge of allegiance to the monarchy?


An oath of allegiance is an oath whereby a subject or citizen acknowledges a duty of allegiance and swears loyalty to monarch or country. In republics, modern oaths specify allegiance to the country's constitution. For example, officials in the United States, a republic, take an oath of office that includes swearing allegiance to the United States Constitution. However, in Canada, a constitutional monarchy, oaths are sworn to the Canadian monarch.

In feudal times a person would also swear allegiance to his feudal superiors. To this day the oath sworn by freemen of the City of London contains an oath of obedience to the Lord Mayor of the City of London.
en.wikipedia.org...

If so, you are subjugated by that feudal superior. And you are then his/her subjects.

I get what you are saying, but to them you are.
edit on 17-12-2012 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)


In short....No...
I don't think drunkenly singing The Sex Pistols song counts...
edit on 18-12-2012 by Suspiria because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:20 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 





Just to clear this bit up as well, after the British Nationality Act 1981, all people born in the UK are known as citizens (and subsequent EU law has made us EU citizens as well, including the Queen) not subjects. This includes anyone born in the colonies or commonwealth. Only a very few subjects remain which are people who's nationality wasn't clear at the time of the law passing and it is not transferable on death, meaning the last subjects should all be dead within 50 years.

So, in a nutshell, anyone claiming that we, in the UK, are "subjects" is talking out of their arse and is simply highlighting how chronically ill-informed they are to everyone else.

At any rate, being a subject didn't mean we were lesser, as the monarch has an obligation to protect her subjects. She has no obligation for citizens.........

Thank you so much for posting this, you have saved me a job. The link I posted in my OP from the UK boarder agency says pretty much the exact same thing.

I would have thought that people would have checked out the link before stupidly continuing on with the “you’re a subject” mantra.

edit on 18-12-2012 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:22 AM
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Originally posted by timetothink
It's pretty cut and dry to the rest of the world.


So arrogant of you to claim "rest of the world" when it seems to me that only Americans ever get in a cufuddle about it. I never hear of Germans, Japanese or Sumatrans saying what Americans do.


Originally posted by timetothink
You have a royal family, they live off your money.....You are their subjects.


They don't live off our money, yet another ignorant statement to go with the others. And, as stated, we're not subjects....



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:26 AM
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: one that is placed under authority or control: as a : vassal b (1) : one subject to a monarch and governed by the monarch's law (2) : one who lives in the territory of, enjoys the protection of, and owes allegiance to a sovereign power or state
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 




: an inhabitant of a city or town; especially : one entitled to the rights and privileges of a freeman 2 a : a member of a state b : a native or naturalized person who owes allegiance to a government and is entitled to protection from it 3 : a civilian as distinguished from a specialized servant of the state


www.merriam-webster.com...


Seems interchangeable to me as far as the UK is concerned. All the writings I can find point to no definite one either way.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:27 AM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


Happily, I am an American who is knowledgeable and mature enough to readily recognize your status as a citizen of the UK and not a subject of the Crown.

In return for this easy and obvious recognition of your proper title and place, I would ask a favor in return. Please understand that not all Americans are gun obsessed, half-informed, bigots who only know the amount of history that any given media talking head offers to inform them of.

Mutual respect! The most beneficial kind for us all. Ignorance is a sad disease. Thankfully education and setting the record straight is the cure.


( Also FTR: Should I ever make statements to the effect of "Royal subjects" past or present - please understand that they were all tongue in cheek - and between friends and myself. I also engage in this running joke of cultural misconceptions with some of my Aussie friends as well. )

~Heff



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:28 AM
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reply to post by timetothink
 


Deleted
edit on 18-12-2012 by Flavian because: Pointless post



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:29 AM
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reply to post by stumason
 


So do they have a money tree?

Just like here, the governments money comes from the people.


You guys are really defensive.

My comment meant that in the rest of the world it is mostly common knowledge that Monarchs have subjects.


It is the long held definition, a subject is under a monarchs rule.


You guys really are sensitive to a common description of one layer of your government.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:31 AM
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reply to post by timetothink
 


I am amazed at your lack of sensitivity to our national pride.

If you are going to insist on saying that we are all subjects, I am going to insist on calling you one of Obamas slaves and your entire family.

I say that because the contest and meaning in which it is often stated I feel like, and I am sure other people form the UK do as well, like you are calling us slaves of the Queen. It is massively insulting to our national identity for you not to recognise us as citizens when we recognise you as such.

Now if you are looking for a definitive definition please stop doing what the uneducated masses to and Google “royal subject definition” look at what the legal definition is because that is what matters. As such I would direct you to read the British Nationality Act 1981 and stop looking up Google like it constitutes the law of the land.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:31 AM
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Originally posted by milkyway12
Ah, wow. I guess you missed Sharia Courts, and i don't know, the 21st century. It doesn't matter if you're atheist. I am dumb enough to be a Christian? Youre dumb enough to go to hell, that goes two ways.


Dumb enough to go to hell? Let's evaluate this...

If God isn't real, no big loss on Atheists, but Christians have wasted their lives.

If God is real, he believes in salvation, so apologise and go through the Pearly gates...

No worries




Originally posted by milkyway12
Last i checked, America doesn't use Sharia Courts, Britain does.


Actually, you do. The same as you have Jewish Beth Din courts. Try not to be such a moron next time and check your facts


Last i checked, America isn't to afraid to go after Muslims, Britain is .. wait, it's because Britain is on the verge of being ran by Muslims.


Originally posted by milkyway12
Not to mention how militarily weak Britain is. If a rabbit invasion of Britain took place, you'd lose.


We are impossible to invade and are the worlds 4th largest military spender. We also have far better submarines than even the US, so there



Originally posted by milkyway12
I didn't know Bravery had an orgininality to it or is that what you tell yourself because of Scotland's submission to the British?


Again, showing such retarded ignorance it's unbearable. A Scottish King was on the the throne of England in 1707 when Scotland came to the English and requested a political Union. Since then, we've had a good deal many Scottish PM's and other senior politicians and they've done rather nicely out of the arrangement. Hardly "submission".



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:32 AM
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Subject...citizen. doesn't mean a thing when you can be locked up without charge, rendered somewhere to be tortured or extradited despite having broken no law here.
we are all serfs in reality.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:32 AM
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reply to post by Flavian
 


I am not embarrassed when I'm right.

You Brits are the ones with the high and mighty attitude.

Don't start a thread about what other people on a site call you if you don't want people to reply.

Common sense.

And it's Mrs. Billy Bob



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:33 AM
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It seems there is a lot of ignorance when it comes to knowing what Britain is all about. I'm English and British and have no allegiance whatsoever to the Queen. As far as I am concerned, the whole royal family is now a glorified tourist attraction.

There is a lot of hypocracy coming from across the pond. There is no nation on Earth (bar North Korea) that are as patriotic and defensive of their own country. How many Americans own the USA flag and know the national anthem off by heart. Isn't this indicative of a nation wrapped around it's leaders little finger? Most Brits couldn'g give a flying fifty pence piece about the union flag and even the devout football fans only know the first verse and the chorus of the national anthem, the rest is just mumbled or made up to fit the tune.

As far Sharia law.. PAHAHA! Come on! You've been watching too much Fox News.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:34 AM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


You are constantly showing your rudeness and self loathing American hatred.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:34 AM
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reply to post by timetothink
 


Touche.



Good answer - i had already deleted mine for being pointless though.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:39 AM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Fair enough I think I can agree to that,

Thank you for your understanding.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:39 AM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


I don't regularly see UK citizens being respectful of Americans on this site......if you want respect you have to earn it....no one is entitled to respect.

You wrote a demeaning thread, basically calling people dimwits.....so please stop with the faked outrage and call yourself whatever you want.


Like I said, it is common knowledge that a monarchy has subjects......if your country chooses to call you something else, goody for you.

Before this thread....I never used either term when speaking to anyone.

edit on 18-12-2012 by timetothink because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:41 AM
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reply to post by timetothink
 


Stop checking the dictionary and check a proper factbook.

British Nationality Act 1981. All you need to know on the subject, pardon the pun....



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:45 AM
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Jeez dude, I am an Englishman nothing else. But yourself, well if you let little things like that upset you then you must have a problem. To be so thin skinned and getting upset over little snide remarks?

Your just setting yourself up to be trolled.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:45 AM
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reply to post by timetothink
 


I am assuming by that you mean when I authored a thread calling for greater gun control, if you find that disrespectful then so be it.

The problem I have hear is not so much respect its actually that you just can’t admit to being wrong this document if you can be bothered to read it quite clearly states that I am a British citizen, it is just as factually incorrect for you to call me a “British subject” as it would be for me to call you a “Spaniard”

All I am asking for is that you recognise that I am a citizen and not a subject.



posted on Dec, 18 2012 @ 06:46 AM
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reply to post by Suspiria
 


No I am sure it doesn't.

I am at a loss though why any royalty even exists. NO ONE even likes them. They just mooch of the their people and don't provide any real purpose besides behind the scenes marionetteering. I mean I might understand their overt purpose if it stood as it was historically, but most people don't buy into that anymore and consider them to be figure heads.

So, why even keep them around. Royal titles still get you state funds, and other perks...Why?

I have not really met Europeans that even entertain the idea of their necessity culturally or otherwise.

I know most citizens of the UK are not the stereotypical, bad teeth, cup O tea, God save the queen types. Mostly we kid around with that stuff.




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