Something super weird is going on with the Oregon shooting....

Your failure to see the incredible amount of odd and downright "wrong" things that surround this situation does not mean they do not exist!'

Nor does it mean that we should in any way feel obligated to drop this subject because you don't approve.

Honestly if you don't get it and you don't see it don't post in the thread!

I will make my own observation of your behavior in this thread though... It seems to me that you came into this thread with your mind already made up.... or as the famous quote says "My mind is made up! Don't try to confuse me with the FACTS!"

At every point in this thread you have demonstrated your subpar knowledge of firearms, firearms culture, constitutional law as adjudicated by the supreme court, a dangerously poor grasp of critical thinking, and a steadfast desire to spout talking points.... You have done all of this while exhibiting the nearly pathological need to silence anyone who disagrees with you using tactics such as belittling, condescension, and a steadfast refusal to actually refute the points people have made instead issuing a blanket proclamation that everything you've read in this thread is "crazy", "paranoid", and "purely coincidental"

I listened to the feed last night.

I felt that it was a lovers' plot...nothing to confirm such, though.

.223 cartridge found outside. Shooting suspects' self inflicted wound might be the .223?
Let's see what round took the shooter out; ar-15 or .223? Second thoughts crossed only one of the plotters' minds?

Do they release that kind of answer?

I actually figure someone with CCW took action; shooter neutralized was the transmission...

We shouldn't try to make this out to be what it is not. Thank God the death toll was minimized.

Originally posted by Unidentified_Objective
From his Facebook profile....

Facebook

I like to think of myself as a bit of an adrenaline junkie... Yup that's right I'm a junkie lol.

I'm the kind of person that is going to do what I want. There is no reason for another person to tell you what to do, I'm the conductor of my choo choo train. I may be young but I have lived one crazy life so far.

Who buys a breathalizer for the Hell of it?... I do haha

He dated a girl named Brittany Curry. In a radio interview, a friend of Jacob Roberts said that he was upset over his break-up with Brittany.

The guy also never knew his parents....

CNN

Roberts told Curry that his mother died at childbirth and he never met his father, she said. He left his maternal aunt's home at age 14, Curry said.

"He raised himself," Curry said. "He was doing it all on his own."

A friend from high school, Jordan Salazar, said she understood that Roberts' parents were not present in his life.

No conspiracy here folks. This is a story about a kid who has no family, likes to shoot at things and loves adrenaline. He is crushed/depressed because his girlfriend leaves him & she is now dating someone else. He feels like crap and he goes to the one crowded place that sure to have easy targets.

Its more fun to believe in crazy conspiracy theories but, reality is reality.

EDIT: Additional info. Former roomate says Roberts had sold all his possessions and had plans to move to Hawaii but, he had missed his flight and for reasons unclear, those plans went south.

Asked whether Roberts may have been depressed and might have just snapped, he replied, "I think that's exactly what happened."

Source (Friend Interview)

edit on 12-12-2012 by Unidentified_Objective because: (no reason given)

So you mean to tell me the guy is a SHOOTER....... yet he fired 60 rounds and only hit 3 people....??????

reply to post by VikingWarlord


Hey viking,

Not sure if this is in the other thread, but....

I'm watching cnn, his neighbor Bobbi Bates said he got into his car with a guitar case (most likely concealing the AR). In the other thread with the photo of all the weed and guns on the table, what is on the floor there??? Check it out!! A guitar case!

Originally posted by LadySkadi
reply to post by Thunder heart woman

 

How long before the SWAT teams arrived? I haven't seen a time posted anywhere, just speculation that they arrived "in minutes" ... what is true is that the first law enforcement officers arrived within minutes and did not wait for SWAT to arrive, they proceeded into the mall. So SWAT arrived sometime later. Still wondering what an acceptable response time is?

It's reported that he killed himself after 22 minutes in a stairwell, probably because police were closing in.. So... Maybe around 20 minutes for SWAT? Cuz your standard patrol isn't going in to that one.

reply to post by unphased


I think the cops killed him, because they were the ones that set him up (or his friend) to do this. After all, they were in possession of a hockey mask, guitar case, and loads of guns, from a previous bust a few days before. Check out viking warlord's thread for proof.

Originally posted by loveguy\
.223 cartridge found outside.

Do you have source for that?

Originally posted by jacktorrance

Okay, then let me rephrase. Why is it scary that people are discussing certain things surrounding this shooting, and relating similarities to recent shootings? Even if the only similarities you've seen discussed are the fact that they both "used guns and wore masks"...they are still similarities and people have every right to discuss them.

You're right....people have every right to discuss it.....and I'm pretty sure I haven't asked anyone to stop talking.
In fact, people are telling me to stop talking!

I didn't reply to two of your things because one was just wrong. and one I had already explained.
Saying the OP was just looking to see if others thought it was odd isn't what he did.
"Something super weird is going on" is just one example. His whole post was "it's a conspiracy."

Look it's not that people are discussing these things....it's they are drawing the conclusion that there's some grand conspiracy without any evidence. People already have it in their mind, conspiracy.

I like when people keep an open mind and discuss things....and that's why I've been asking people to explain it to me. I've been asking people to explain how there's a conspiracy, because everything I've read so far is junk and shows no evidence of a conspiracy. I've asked for specific things to be explained.

There's no discussion going on here...it's "OMG there's a conspiracy."
Discussion involves two sides.....and my side is being ignored.

reply to post by starviego


Clackamas county sheriff said no police fired inside the mall-a reporter asked if any shots were fired outside and he froze up and didnt give an answer. 2 other reporters asked the same question and he changed the subject.

I think i was watching KGW but ill bet all the other local news were there too so it should be easy to find.

Originally posted by Ghost375

couldn't it be possible, that the gun people are worried about being used in massacres....could ya know, be used in massacres?

Look, I think the idea of Assault rifles is stupid. ... You can't tell me ARs are for self-defense. What are they used for? Killing many people. That's EXACTLY what they were designed for.

Your statements are ignorant of the facts. This particular "assault" rife can fire anything from a .308 or .223 or a .22LR (depending on configuration), the same round found in every farm kids bedroom. Yes, a 22. You are concentrating on what they LOOK like but any caliber weapon can LOOK like an "assault" rifle. There are even shotguns made to LOOK like a military version, which these absolutely are not.

See, the military version can fire in bursts of 3 rounds, or more, with a single trigger pull. These can't unless illegally modified.

There is nothing "assault" about them except that the Clinton admin branded them as such.

The caliber of round they fire is NO different than any hunting rifle or sportsman rifle or pistol. They are just guns.

The reason people like them is that they look badass. Regular old hunting rifles are kind of boring.

For example this is a 22:


Looks pretty badass doesn't it. Still a 22.

Here is a paintball gun:


Here is a "civilian" or "Non-assault" rifle that fires the same rounds:


It is true that these military replica rifles look cooler and you can hang more doodads on them than your oh-so safe "hunting" rifle but doodads don't make them shoot better, it just makes them heavier.

Democrats don't need to use scare tactics to pass the legislation. The majority already support a semi-auto ban.....

A poll conducted in August 2012 found that 57% of those polled favor a ban on the manufacture, sale and possession of semi-automatic assault weapons.1 A June 2011 poll confirms support for a national assault weapons ban: 62% of Americans polled support a federal ban on the sale of assault weapons.2

Since 2011, a majority has supported a ban on assault rifles....
why kill people when a majority already supports it.

Sorry but a single exit poll does not a majority make. Just doesn't work that way amigo. Besides, I will give you another poll which doesn't say your nonsense at all:

There has been no significant change in public views on the issue of gun control and gun rights following the July 20th shooting at a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado. Currently, 47% say it is more important to control gun ownership, while 46% say it is more important to protect the rights of Americans to own guns. That is virtually unchanged from a survey earlier this year in April, when 45% prioritized gun control and 49% gun rights.

...

Two-thirds (67%) say that shootings like this one are just the isolated acts of troubled individuals. Only about a quarter (24%) say shootings like this reflect broader problems in American society. This is similar to the public reaction after the Tucson shooting in early 2011.

I will even cite it so you can look it up: PEW research

Maybe the weapons designed for mass killings are chosen because.....wait for it.....they are designed for mass killings?

Again, this is just ignorant. A person could just as easily have done just as much damage with a simple .22 rifle or a pistol or a weapon of any caliber. It isn't the gun or the label you associate with it that makes it kill, it is the person.

Perhaps we should be looking at society and trying to determine what drives these idiots to go kill people instead of blaming the instrument. Look at Norway. Their gun laws sure didn't stop that guy from killing over 70 kids. Additionally, making a law against a gun, any kind of gun, doesn't prevent a killer and a criminal from getting one, as we saw in Norway. Do you people honestly think that the killer is going be sitting around the house one day thinking:

Killer: Hey, I would sure like to blow some people away today, but damn those laws won't allow me to buy a gun and I would sure hate to get a misdemeanor and have to pay a ticket or do some community service. Ah well, I guess I will just go back to planting roses and saving kittens stuck in trees then. Gosh. *snaps fingers*

Your statements assume that if we "ban" a gun then they simply disappear from the planet and no one can get them, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Remind me wasn't James Holmes wearing armor too?

No, he wasn't. You aren't paying attention

And what kinda gun was Holmes shooting again...?

12-gauge shotgun, 9mm handgun, and an AR15. Your point?

They were both shooting Semi Auto rifles. Used to be shootings took place with a pistol because even though civilians can buy, a lot of civilians aren't experienced with a semi auto.

I love how you consider yourself an expert where you clearly lack any form of expertise

Also, how did this shooter fire 60 rounds from an AR-15? If he was 17 as once reported (then removed) then how'd he come across an AR and at least an extra clip - and possibly a pistol (to kill himself with).

edit on 11-12-2012 by unphased because: (no reason given)

First off, it's called a magazine, not a clip. Know your subject material before commenting on it. Secondly, if you'd pay attention to the news, he stole the rifle. Ya know...illegal firearm used in a shooting

ETA2: Also note the similarities. Initially it was 3 men in reported in both shootings, and then it became a lone gunman.

The shooters appearance has continually changed as well.

Sounds like some anit-gun bull crap to me - unfortunately perpetuated by your apparent willingness to coddle it along with disinformation about firearms and events.

reply to post by Ghost375


Hey, you've had more than a few people on your side in this discussion.

I think overall, it's simply been your approach. Calling people ignorant or ridiculous off the bat doesn't necessarily win you any friends. Not saying you're looking for friends.

But if you want discussion, I think that's great. If you want someone to explain their side of things, that's even better, because that's what I want too. I want to hear information from each side before making a decision. I value each opinion given. Yours included. I think that is the basis of "denying ignorance".

I haven't settled on any theory surrounding this..I'm leaning more towards a lonely, sad kid who liked guns and was going through a rough time who chose to make a really stupid decision that resulted in the loss of three lives. That's what I've come to..which I doubt is much different from your opinion. I might be wrong about that, but I'm thinking we could be friends after all.

LOL notice how he completely ignored the fact that in china where they don't let anyone but the rich have guns KNIFE MASSACRES happen... Oh and did I mention that one of the more recent knife massacres resulted in more dead than the batman shooting and this shooting combined by a full ONE THIRD as many deaths?

KNIFE MASSACRE LEAVES 20 DEAD


But yeah it's those evil "assault rifles" it couldn't possibly be a tragic but inevitable result of millions of years of human evolution combined with a society that leaves many feeling marginalized, isolated, disconnected, unwanted, unneeded, and unheard!!!

But yeah lets ban the only type of rifle the constitution and the supreme court agree the 2nd amendment is SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO GIVE US ACCESS TO!

Bottom line is while this is a tragedy, what's even more disturbing than the incident is that there are some that will wield this incident like a weapon to incite fear in an attempt to trick the american public at large to DEMAND they take away even more of their own rights!!


But nope there's nothing to see here at all folks!

GHost has spoken....

EDIT TO ADD: As an addendum I'd like to take this opportunity to say that one of the blessings and simultaenously one of the curses of living in a quasi free and open society is that people are allowed to make choices that have consequences we may not like or agree with. It sucks but the reality is you cannot legislate away the fact that human nature has a violent and ugly side that can rear it's head. Nor should we try to! Punishing law abiding citizens for the sins of those that have CHOSEN TO BREAK THE LAWS ALREADY IN PLACE by committing to the course of action they have chosen is not only redundant and self defeating but in this instance further erodes the ability of the public at large to defend themselves from the INEVITABLE incidents such as this!

I can go into any number of attempted rampage shootings that have been outright averted or stopped before the loss of life became any worse by civilians exercising their right to carry and use a firearm in defense of theirselves and the public at large but you will choose not to acknowledge or otherwise ignore them like you have everything else.

Originally posted by starviego

Originally posted by loveguy\
.223 cartridge found outside.

Do you have source for that?

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who heard it was found between barnes and noble, and at&t. So I could be mistaking it being found outdoors.

Originally posted by Frettin
reply to post by unphased

 

I think the cops killed him, because they were the ones that set him up (or his friend) to do this. After all, they were in possession of a hockey mask, guitar case, and loads of guns, from a previous bust a few days before. Check out viking warlord's thread for proof.

link..?

Originally posted by roguetechie
Your failure to see the incredible amount of odd and downright "wrong" things that surround this situation does not mean they do not exist!'

I've quoted every point in here and demonstrated why they are wrong....then asked if there was anything in addition I missed that could be leading you all to shout "CONSPIRACY!"

Nor does it mean that we should in any way feel obligated to drop this subject because you don't approve.
I'm pretty sure I've asked people, especially you, to explain their viewpoint. It seems to be you who is telling people to stop talking.

Honestly if you don't get it and you don't see it don't post in the thread!
That's the way to treat people!

I will make my own observation of your behavior in this thread though... It seems to me that you came into this thread with your mind already made up.... or as the famous quote says "My mind is made up! Don't try to confuse me with the FACTS!"
That's all YOU guys have been doing. I keep asking for people to explain it to me to try to change my mind.

At every point in this thread you have demonstrated your subpar knowledge of firearms, firearms culture, constitutional law as adjudicated by the supreme court,
Explain why an extensive knowledge of firearms and constitutional law is required for this discussion? Explain how I demonstrated a lack of knowledge in either category. You saying stuff you know about firearms, isnt' the same as me not saying it.

a dangerously poor grasp of critical thinking
That just makes me laugh.
and a steadfast desire to spout talking points....
show me a talking point....
You have done all of this while exhibiting the nearly pathological need to silence anyone who disagrees with you
I'm the one being told to stop talking....
using tactics such as belittlingI'm pretty sure I only belittled you after you ignored what I said and tried to make it out like I said something else. , condescensionI was condescending in some of my earlier posts. Got me there., and a steadfast refusal to actually refute the pointsI've refuted so many points. Y'all just ignored them. people have made instead issuing a blanket proclamation that everything you've read in this thread is "crazy", "paranoid"Definitely called things crazy and people paranoid. got me there. , and "purely coincidental"Please show me where I said something was coincidental. And if you grab the one thing, make sure it's in context for people to see that I was actually asking for people to show me coincidences.

reply to post by Frettin

Good catch! Wow, that is very interesting, there is a lot of strange things involved with this case.

Originally posted by PrimePorkchop

Remind me wasn't James Holmes wearing armor too?

No, he wasn't. You aren't paying attention

And what kinda gun was Holmes shooting again...?

12-gauge shotgun, 9mm handgun, and an AR15. Your point?

They were both shooting Semi Auto rifles. Used to be shootings took place with a pistol because even though civilians can buy, a lot of civilians aren't experienced with a semi auto.

I love how you consider yourself an expert where you clearly lack any form of expertise

Also, how did this shooter fire 60 rounds from an AR-15? If he was 17 as once reported (then removed) then how'd he come across an AR and at least an extra clip - and possibly a pistol (to kill himself with).

edit on 11-12-2012 by unphased because: (no reason given)

First off, it's called a magazine, not a clip. Know your subject material before commenting on it. Secondly, if you'd pay attention to the news, he stole the rifle. Ya know...illegal firearm used in a shooting

ETA2: Also note the similarities. Initially it was 3 men in reported in both shootings, and then it became a lone gunman.

The shooters appearance has continually changed as well.

Sounds like some anit-gun bull crap to me - unfortunately perpetuated by your apparent willingness to coddle it along with disinformation about firearms and events.

edit on 11-12-2012 by unphased because: (no reason given)

1- You are rude, ignorant, and appear completely devoid of basic communication taught to 4 year olds.

2- When the hell did I say I was an expert on anything? (failure..smh)

3- Who the # cares whether I call it a magazine or a clip I'll comment on whatever the hell I want to.

4- Learn to tell time to avoid looking stupid. I wrote the thread before any information on how the gun was aquired was released....

5- Disinformation.......? Damn... I HATE people like you. You've ruined ATS.

Reply to post by PrimePorkchop
Originally posted by unphased


1- You are rude, ignorant, and appear completely devoid of basic communication taught to 4 year olds.

2- When the hell did I say I was an expert on anything? (failure..smh)

3- Who the # cares whether I call it a magazine or a clip I'll comment on whatever the hell I want to.

4- Learn to tell time to avoid looking stupid. I wrote the thread before any information on how the gun was aquired was released....

5- Disinformation.......? Damn... I HATE people like you. You've ruined ATS.

Pot; meet kettle.

Originally posted by CraigSnedeker
Very interesting.

Could be a connection... but why theaters and malls?

Somebody either owes someone some money, or they saw or know something they shouldn't.