I need a job

*sigh*

So here its almost noon and I just got finished going through my email, responding to recruiters who tell me there is no work. Now I'm sitting here bored and depressed, I have been unemployed for going on 8 months now, I have probably sent out hundreds of resumes, and spent countless hours online applying for retail jobs filling out those long pointless multiple choice idiot tests.

I'm not the most active guy in the world, in fact I would consider myself quite lazy, but I have really been going the extra mile to find a job especially for the last few months. I'm just not getting anything, in the last 8 months I have had 1 phone interview (which went nowhere). I spend most of my time looking for jobs at home, because every time I have gone somewhere and asked to talk to someone about applying for a position or just give them my resume, they wont take it and tell me to go online.

I just don't know what to do, I have worked my entire adult life in the software QA industry as a tester I honestly have had no real desire to be an engineer or programmer, but due to cutbacks in the industry and outsourcing, the position of simply "tester" is going the way of the dinosaur. I have attempted to learn more about the industry and apply for positions that are more involved than testing, but again I get nowhere because I don't have the experience.

I have considered relocating, but there is not many places I can go or (honestly) want to go, I don't have the money to move so I would have to get some help from my family which I have no doubt that they would help but I have already asked them for so much. After I was layed off in April I applied for unemployment, however due to clerical error on the part of the megalithic corporation I worked for my wages were never reported, so I had to wait over 4 months to get my benefits. In that time I went through all the savings I had to pay my rent and bills, I live with two other people, and we split bills and rent evenly. One of them paid my rent and most of my bills for me for over three months, and my father helped me as well. I know they don't expect me to pay them back right away, but I can't help but feel guilty that I put them through that.

I'm just really depressed, everything I do to try and control it just covers it up for a while and than it comes back like a tsunami of guilt, regret, and self pity. I think it is fueling my misanthrope, making me more and more jaded.

Well thanks for reading my apathetic drawl, some words of wisdom would be nice

reply to post by Openeye


I just sacrificed 2 sticks of Nag Champa incense in your name, along with a Blessing Prayer, for you to have a job come to you. Don't know if it will help...but, it can't hurt. Hang in there...it will get better...

Des

We've been through this before. Rather than repeat, take a look here for some tips. I put it together after a similar rant just a few weeks ago.

Specific to what you wrote, basically you're doing something wrong. Einstein said insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. You have to change your tactics. Last time the guy did not want to leave Detroit. Well, all you can say to someone like that is, if you insist in sitting in a cesspool, it's probably always going to smell like poo. You've got to get beyond that issue if you want to see results.

In your case, it looks like you aren't very motivated to change your profession. Well, I guess the buggy whip manufacturers and blacksmiths all faced the same issue. But here's a news flash:

You must.

The 'profession' you chose is not in particular demand, nor, frankly, is it particularly demanding. Not that it doesn't take expertise to do it, but in the IT world, it's pretty low on the totem pole. You are testing what other people wrote. That won't get you listed on whatever easter egg the programmers install for their ego gratification.

So, given your skill set, in my opinion, breaking into another aspect of IT is probably not the best choice for you because you will be competing with other people who are laid off who have more experience than you do. So, unless you can find a way to leverage your software testing experise, you'll need to abandon IT in favor of something more in demand. Here's another thread that discusses this issue.

It's the old proverbial and hackneyed phrase, but you've got to start thinking outside the box. Right now you;re just staring at the four walls wondering why nothing changes.

Openeye,

It has been almost a year since I logged in and posted, but I wanted to respond to your post.

I lost my job in 2008 due to a back injury. (Short Term Disability ran out and I didn't qualify for Long Term...) Since then, my partner and I were able to relocate from OH to NC (in early 2010)... I still have not been able to find a real job again. I had been used to making $45-50k a year from 24-28 years old, and suddenly nothing. I know how it feels and how depressing the BS can get.

I wish there were some magic words that would make everything better - but they don't exist. I can tell you that I took the opportunity to start my own business. I began a pet sitting business (www.reliefservicesnc.com) - not because it was in my area of experience, but because I love pets and the start up costs are extremely low. I am also trained in massotherapy and give massages from my home.

These options are probably not for you. But what I'm trying to say is that even though I hit rock bottom, exhausted my unemployment benefits, and still have bills (and a parent to care for), there is light somewhere out there in the darkness... It is going to be difficult, but keep your head up - we are never handed something we cannot handle.

Okay. I will first say that we've spent time in the same boat. Just over a year ago, I got a job in Software testing after a 6 month dry spell. The company I worked for was not experiencing any sort of hardship, but wanted to cut 500 jobs to increase its number for the quarter, so I got to be a part of that screwed demographic. Definitely sympathies going out on that. And the comment about testing becoming extinct, that cuts to the bone. I still have chills thinking about that time unemployed.

During that time, I hooked up with every contracting company in Calgary (and many of those are national as well), and I can at least say that this sort of thing is quite popular in Canada. I have found that a lot of people are looking for QA certification as a prerequisite, though I have 0 faith in any of the current software QA certifications. The danger of certification is that there will be an expectation to fit every project into the same deliverables... but every project can be vastly different, and it makes no sense to produce documentation and mountains of process that can never be followed. Business requires agility (small a).

Right now, I work as one of two Software testers in the company, and we are vastly outnumbered by developers. You could say that software QA is a pilot project. We are constantly building and rebuilding processes, documenting 25 years worth of systems that have never been documented, and coordinating test activities. I am involved in every project on my side of the company, but in some of those I've managed to get it so that I plan and coordinate the testing, but execution is done by end users, developers, managers, etc...

I guess what I'm getting at is that there are things out there. Some of the smaller companies here (Canada) are having trouble finding the people they need. They are often willing to take a candidate that must be moved, or has less experience if they show the ability to fit in with corporate culture, and are flexible enough to do what needs to be done.

If you don't have a LinkedIn profile, I'd suggest you get one right away, and make it as up to date and awesome as possible. Recruiters are combing LinkedIn a lot more than anything that gets submitted to them directly. It also helps to have a support structure. If you need more, let me know. Like I said, I was in that boat recently enough.

(And I assume by Arizona Bay, you mean Los Angeles?)

reply to post by schuyler


Ok... so you are saying it is easier to start on a new career path - with no experience - then to try to keep looking in your field of expertise? College graduates are applying at McDonald's.. have you ever been through a truly rough patch? Until you've lived it - in this economy - it's hard to appreciate the challenges that are out there.

reply to post by Openeye


I got into another career field with some school...Indeed brought me some callbacks maybe it will work for you. Starting off at the bottom is tough though.

Originally posted by schuyler
The 'profession' you chose is not in particular demand, nor, frankly, is it particularly demanding. Not that it doesn't take expertise to do it, but in the IT world, it's pretty low on the totem pole. You are testing what other people wrote. That won't get you listed on whatever easter egg the programmers install for their ego gratification.

Okay. I agreed with most of what you said. But this bit is an issue.

Testing is vitally important to any company that wants to make something of itself. A good tester is worth his or her weight in gold, as he'll (I'm switching to male pronouns here so it's simple to write.) find the holes before they are made. Once you're told about those, and fix them, he'll find a new way to break it. "Breaking things" is often how I describe my job... but there's a lot more to it than that. I can find problems before they exist. I have seen most every type of application, I can correlate problems on this customer tracking system to problems on that mechanical control system, and tell you exactly where to look to fix it. This is all experience... but every bit of experience is relevant. Given requirements, a good tester can tell you how the end product will break, explain this to the requestor, and suggest changes to mitigate those risks.

I've seen some Developers who could step into the role if pressed, but for the most part, there are completely different mindsets between the two professions. Your opinion of Testers may have seen some of the bad ones... but the good ones will also make you look good in the process.

reply to post by Openeye


I’ve been where you are and it can be pretty depressing so I feel for you.

One tip I found that really works is to take you time when applying to jobs. Instead of casting a wide net and applying for everything you are qualified for, concentrate only on positions that you think you have a good shot at and custom tailor your resume for that one position. This means instead of hitting the job boards and applying for 10 or 20 positions a day, you read the posting, focus in on the key words and skills and incorporate them into a unique resume which hits all the notes HR wants to see. With the job market in the shape it’s in, it too easy for a resume or application to get passed by just because the HR filtering software didn’t see enough of the keywords they were looking for.

Its quality over quantity at this point, so spend the time ensuring that your application gets some face time with a recruiter.

Hey Dude,

Chin up life is good

I lost my job with a property development company a few months ago as well, One day I was working the next day I had no job.

I normally wouldnt care but I was in a foreign country with no work visa (Im an Aussie who was working for an Aussie company and paying taxes in Oz so didnt need a work permit for my chosen country) and 2 days before losing my job had just signed a lease on a sweet bachelor pad

If not for the pad I would have just gone home and found another job then come back, unfortunately most of my savings went into the place so I couldnt just up and leave but I also couldnt stay with no income.

This situation forced me to get resourceful, I now find myself in an even better position than I was while working.

I enjoy Pub quiz/ Trivia nights so thought maybe I could run a few of those to pay my bills till I sort something out. After approaching 3 pubs 2 of them agreed to give it a go, both are still going and in just those 2 nights, about 2-3 hours each, I earn more than enough to pay my bills.
This sort of thing obviously isnt for everyone but if your not shy its worth trying.

Talk to a couple pubs/bars/restaurants and ask if its something they could see working for them.
If they are reluctant tell them it wont cost them anything and your fee for the evening will be the entry fee of participants.

Apart from that Ive also set up a baking business, I have a friend here who bakes the most amazing cakes but only does it part time due to her day job. I heard of an organisation called WAO which is a refuge for victims of domestic violence. I asked if they would be interested in getting some of their women to be trained to make cakes by my friend and I would approach cafes and get them to buy them.
6 weeks later we stock 12 cafes and restaurants and get orders everyday from customers who tried the cakes in the cafes and loved them. This small start up now makes about 20 cakes a day, provides part time work and a decent income to 5 women who really needed it and after ingredients and wages etc etc is making about 500RM ($170 US) a day profit. We have more places interested in buying but right now we dont have the capacity to meet demand.

I also have several other projects on the go and am much happier and financially better off than when I was working.

Ive helped dozens of people find work and the best piece of advice I can offer is not to wait for an ad in the paper or a headhunter to call you up, be pro active, get out there find a niche and fill the F*** out of it before someone else does.

If you need any help finding a niche you can fill Id be more than happy to talk with you and bounce ideas around.

Stay positive dude

reply to post by schuyler


I appreciate your bluntness, and I will give the thread you authored a read.

I'm not oppose to changing my profession, but I have yet to find a position which requires no experience, or an internship to help me get that experience.

The thing that screams out to me is my location, but moving is just seems so undesirable to me. The only way I could do it is with the help of family, who live on the the complete opposite side of the nation (I'm on the west coast), and they are in no real position to give me a place to stay or the income to cover my expenses while I look for a job in a new state. Not only would I have to deal with being a burden on my family, but I would also be away from the friends (who I consider family) who have supported me throughout my entire adult life.

Blah, its so frustrating I feel like I'm trapped and the only way to survive is to give in and admit that I'm a failure and crawl back to my mother or my father, which I feel would be devastating.

Originally posted by journey2010
reply to post by schuyler

 

Ok... so you are saying it is easier to start on a new career path - with no experience - then to try to keep looking in your field of expertise? College graduates are applying at McDonald's.. have you ever been through a truly rough patch? Until you've lived it - in this economy - it's hard to appreciate the challenges that are out there.

If you read the threads I listed, the first one of which is mine, you'd have the answer to your questions about what I have been through. You guys can take my advice or not; it doesn't affect me, but given what OP said, what he is now doing is NOT working. You have to start with that stark, cold fact and make changes accordingly. If he wants to spend another year sending out 1,000 resumes with no call back, be my guest.

In answer to your first question, if your field of expertise is NOT HIRING, it makes no sense to keep on looking in your field of expertise, particularly if you want to stay put. Blacksmiths can look for blacksmithing jobs for the next century if they want, and they're never going to find work.

College graduates are applying at McDonalds? That's been true for forty years. It's not new. If you get a B.A. in English or any social science, that's what is going to happen to you. Nobody values a B.A. in anthropology. On the other hand, if you stuck your nose to the grindstone, hacked the math, and got a degree in chemical engineering, you'd have your pick of jobs. You make the choice, then take the consequences. If you pick your training wrong or just go with the flow, you can't expect the world to bow down at your feet and offer you a "living wage" job just because you exist.

In terms of my own experience (You just have to make this personal, OK) when I got out of school in the Seattle area, Boeing had just laid off 100,000 out of 130,000 employees. Engineers were abandoning houses in which they actually had equity (They weren't underwater). There was a billboard on the freeway that said, "Will the last one to leave please turn out the lights?" Inflation was 13% and unemployment was just a tad under what it is now. Then the "Oil Crisis" hit where everyone had to wait in line for hours, literally, to get a tank of gas. The Misery Index, a measure of unemployment plus inflation, was 22.98. Today it is 10.75.

This is worth repeating because you guys seem to feel this is the only recession we've ever had, or that it is the worst. One more time.

Misery Index, late seventies: 22.98
Misery Index, 2012: 10.75

Do you want to compete on "woe is me, misery" again? Now, of course you can mix and match your woe is me we're in a depression statistics any way you want, but the fact is that during the Great Depression the official unemployment rate was 25%, and now it's less than ten. Is this number fake? Sure, both times. In reality it is and was worse, both times.

So what did I do when I was in a similar circumstance? I moved. I wound up down south in Georgia. I was "homeless," but I didn't know it as the term had not yet been invented. I just thought I was living in my car for a spell, a beat up $200 VW bug. And the one thing that amazed me was that I saw signs in store windows that said, "Help Wanted." Imagine that? I had never seen one before. So what did I do, a guy with a Master's degree? I felt lucky to get a job at the minimum wage of $2.10 an hour working retail at a local mall. Within a year I was a manager at $4.50 an hour and things started to look up. The crucial point is that I did not whine about it, and when things didn't work within my 'profession in which I was trained,' I moved and found another one.

So don't go all ad hominem on me and tell me I've never been there when you have no idea what you're talking about. Instead, OP, concentrate on what I said and in the thread I pointed to for some pointers on what you might do. If you want to reject all that, meh? Go ahead. Wallow in your misery some more, and be sure to blame someone else.

Trying not to ask specifics of your financials...but how have you been making do for the last few months? Did you have a lot of money saved up? How's the savings now? I don't want to hear numbers, I just wonder about what sort of businesses you might be able to start. There's websites that sell stuff made in China, usually shipping is high, which means you have to buy in bulk.....therefore you can make money selling this stuff in fleamarkets on ebay. Of course, a lot of it is counterfeit goods, and you saw the "Dhs raided my store" thread, im sure. Stay away from that stuff. I bought a Bluetooth headset once off one of these sites, and it had a Motorola logo on it, and had instructions for features it didn't even have! They copied the Motorola instructions in their own engrish words! Watch for that stuff....But there are some unique things that are completely original.

But, some of it is just downright weird, and completely unavailable from the mainstream. For example, there are spy watch phones all over ebay. The good ones run the Android platform, have 3g internet, Bluetooth so you can use it as a phone, and CAMERAS. No one will know you're taking pictures of them! LOL. Some of this stuff is made by Chinese name brands that haven't hit it big in the US yet, with great quality. Some have poor quality control, and you need to test these before selling them. Some are just oddball novelty crap. I used to have "Terrorist in a barrel" games where you put plastic swords into the sides of the barrel until the guy popped out. Infact, the guy looked like a pirate, but the packaging had Osama Bin Laden himself on it....LOL.

One problem though...most of this crap is already being sold on ebay and you'll have a hard time competing.

reply to post by phroziac


I'm not really in a position to start my own business, I have considered trying to do some computer repair and free lance QA work, but those endeavors are just as competitive as the job market right now. I mean you go down the street where I live and there is bound to be at least 5 home made advertisements for computer repair or tutoring stapled on every telephone pole or taped on every light post.

As for my financial situation, I had very little savings at the time I was layed off, this was a big mistake on my part, and the corporation I worked for at the time messed something up with my wages and as a result I did not receive unemployment for 4 months. I had help from family and friends, which I am eternally grateful for.

reply to post by Openeye


Go take a look at those signs posted on poles that offer free-lance work. Now, put on your creative thinking cap, and design your own sign, that catches people's eyes faster, and better, than those other signs. It's worth a try.

Des

You have to think adaptively and proactively. It may be there is no job for you. But that doesn't mean there isn't work for you. I don't know anything about computers or technology, but in your field and with your skills, is there some service you could offer as a freelancer? Building websites, providing a computer related service to small businesses that use computers and need someone to come in and do changes or maintenance as they need it? Something along those lines. I'm sure you can come up with more ideas than I can. You have retail experience, maybe you could do something in advertising.
I think these times we're living in are hard, but they also can provide opportunities if you can think 'outside the box' a little bit. (Sorry, I hate that expression, but it seemed to fit.)

Originally posted by Openeye
reply to post by phroziac

 

I'm not really in a position to start my own business, I have considered trying to do some computer repair and free lance QA work, but those endeavors are just as competitive as the job market right now. I mean you go down the street where I live and there is bound to be at least 5 home made advertisements for computer repair or tutoring stapled on every telephone pole or taped on every light post.

As for my financial situation, I had very little savings at the time I was layed off, this was a big mistake on my part, and the corporation I worked for at the time messed something up with my wages and as a result I did not receive unemployment for 4 months. I had help from family and friends, which I am eternally grateful for.

edit on 10-12-2012 by Openeye because: (no reason given)

Your depression is getting in the way. I do something a lot of people do (housecleaning) and I have a lot of competition but I manage. Find a new way to advertise. Go directly to someone you think or know needs your services and just go in and ask them if they need help. Do some work for someone without charging just to get a great reference. Think of ways you can help yourself. You have to believe you can help yourself. As Oprah once said, 'If you think you can, you're right. And if you think you can't, you're right'. Give youself a deadline to wallow in depression and then after that date comes, get going.

OpenEye I too was in a similar situation. I was easily making $60k/year in my career. After 20 years I was sort of burnt out, got laid off and had no doors open to me. It was really depressing and I was caught up in the self loathing drama. I hated what I had become and tried to pull myself out of my mess in spite of no work being out there. Every place I applied to in my field would rather hire new grads for half pay than hire experience. It's a bit upside down to many unemployed scenarios, but the end result still was me being out of work. I felt like a failure standing outside looking in at those still working. Depression made me lose any desire for social interaction.
I got lucky and hooked up with a company that gave me a shot. I am in a different field doing something that pays the bills. It may not be my dream job, but I remind myself that it will do until I can move on. The hardest part is taking the pay cut. Being used to making a good living and now making less than half is hard to reconcile, but again, it's paying the bills.


There is a great deal of wisdom in this thread and opportunity may be lurking in the next post. Keep your chin up and listen to others who been there. It does suck bad, and it may not get better for a while, but just know that you will get the break. It may not be one you would have considered before, it may not be one you want to do, but it will carry you to the next point in your life.


I try to remember that those who lived in the 1920's and 30's had it really hard and people died from those bad times. Most never got schooling and many worked around the clock to put bread on the table. They managed, had families and eventually created us. We have more opportunities these days and I am trying to be hopeful that our time here will be better.