Surprise: McConnell Offers Vote on Obama/Geithner Fiscal Cliff Plan, Reid Objects

reply to post by SLAYER69


I do agree that the bottom line is that the little guy gets shafted again.

reply to post by DirtyLiberalHippie


I think that you and Phoenix, as well as others in the thread, summed up how I feel. It is what Slayer said far more succinctly than I am able to express. It looks, to me, like it is all games and trying to mold perceptions so that the public sees one side as "good" and one as "bad" while both are making sure that nothing gets accomplished to fix the problem.

Like Phoenix expressed, we are beyond fixing. A big hat tip to another member, Wrabbit, for the work he has done in some threads laying out numbers showing how far beyond fixing we are. Having seen the numbers and then seeing the games continuing to be played out by both parties, I just wonder if there is anything that can be done to preserve anything anymore.

It's the same feeling that you mention of being fed up and frustrated, but also unsure as to how real change can be made in Washington. I feel that.

Thanks so much to (almost) everyone who has participated in this thread. This is my first "real" thread and you guys made the conversation so much more interesting. I appreciate the thoughts so far and would love to read any further opinions on this.

Take care,
Cindi

reply to post by sonnny1


I love that you mentioned this. Thank you. You're right, this isn't the first time this has happened. I wouldn't want to face my constituents and have to explain why I voted for the insane plane that was proposed initially, while conversely, I wouldn't want to have to explain why I was playing games instead of frantically looking for anything that will offer a small parachute to the people of this country for when we go sailing at top speed over the fiscal cliff.

I think DLH is right that it is all games on all sides now and even better are some of the ideas that Phoenix posted.

reply to post by Phoenix


I love the idea of term limits as well as the idea of stand alone bills that pass or fail without gimmicks or unrelated amendments attached. Forcing a balanced budget to be passed, too. Though I would like it to be far harsher if one isn't passed. In that case, there will be no paychecks issued until a balanced budget is passed. Wishful thinking, of course, but nothing else is working.

Overall, really interesting ideas and they are a good start to considering things that could be done to shake up the status quo that we have endured for so long now.

Take care,
Cindi

So the reality of the McConnell 'offer' is that it backfired on him.

It wasn't a 'Fiscal Cliff Plan' folks, it was about the Debt Ceiling Renewal. The proposal was that instead of Congress having to raise the Debt Ceiling every couple of years, the President would do it, and Congress would retrospectively approve the plan. It is a small part of the 'Fiscal Cliff' problem, designed to help eliminate future such problems, not solve this one. It was actually something that McConnell proposed last year, but Boehner couldn't sell.

So McConnell tried to trap the Democrats into rejecting a vote, and Reid at first said he didn't think it was a good idea, but after studying it further, decided to go ahead with it, straight up or down, yes or no, lets vote.

McConnell then filibustered it. Oh, no no no no no, we need 60 votes on this!

Really guys. McConnell couldn't pour water out of a boot if you wrote the instructions on the heel. I assume his new number one priority is to ensure that Obama is a two term president.

reply to post by Glencairn


No problem. I think "Facts" should be brought into the discussion.

reply to post by sonnny1


Definitely. Facts are important and like you showed, when this was done before it ended with 414 against and 0 voting for Obama's budget proposal. I suspect that is what they expected to happen this time, too. It just looks like so much one-upmanship and game playing from both sides.

I would have been very surprised if Reid hadn't countered with a one-upping of his own and we see that that is exactly what he did. Continued the game playing and McConnell played along with Reid's latest move.

Right now the nation is burning and it'd be really darn nice if someone would confiscate the fiddles from our politicians.

Take care,
Cindi

McConnels action were just another example on why nothing gets done in congress.
He asks for his bill to be voted on, then cowardly starts a so called filibuster.
This is just another example of why the filibuster rules need to be overhauled.

I wonder how much time and money was wasted by this action in congress today?

Originally posted by Glencairn
McConnell offers vote, Reid objects

I did a search and didn't find anything on this newest development.

It seems that Mitch McConnell took to the floor and offered an immediate vote on President Obama's fiscal cliff plan. Harry Reid objected and shut the whole thing down, labeling the suggestion a "stunt." Then, shortly after, Reid claimed that the Obama/Geithner proposal doesn't exist.

Republicans keep being accused of being obstructionist and holding the nation/middle class hostage, so they say "sure, let's have a vote on Obama's plan." and Reid claims it's a stunt and they're still being obstructionist. Really?

Look Harry, you can't have it both ways. If repubs block Obama/Geithner's proposal they are bad and holding the middle class hostage and if they offer to bring it to a vote they are bad and holding the middle class hostage. Well, what exactly are they supposed to do that will make you happy? Give us a hint, because right now it looks like you're going to be throwing a temper tantrum no matter what they do. They block it and get the blame or they cave and give you every single thing you ask for and they get the blame. Just, huh? How's that work again?

Take care,
Cindi

Actually, no. McConnell had to end up filibustering HIS OWN BILL when Reid moved to pass the bill that McConnell PUT FORWARD for a vote with a 51-vote threshold!

CNN: McConnell move on debt ceiling backfires

www.cnn.com...

Oops.

Here's a thread I created about the "backfire".

www.abovetopsecret.com...

After consulting with his aides Harry said OK lets vote... up or down. Then McOonnel filibustered his own bill! haha ha what a loser. These Repugnantans are filibustering their own bill!

If the elections are rigged, doesn't that mean that both McConnell and Reid are plants and this has been the plan all along? Is there a genuine fight within the Republican ranks? Are there any genuine fights in Congress that don't involve something Ron Paul advocates?

Diebold still sits in the back of my mind whenever someone brings up a "Look at what the Republicans/Democrats are doing" kind of subject.

Just my 2 Bernanke's.

Lima-1, out.

From the OP title: "Surprise: McConnell Offers Vote on Obama/Geithner Fiscal Cliff Plan, Reid Objects"

Yes, Reid objected but he didn't block any vote. McConnell after calling for an up/down vote on his own proposal then FILIBUSTERED it. Read that again - McConnell filibustered his own proposal. The obstructionists in Congress are now obstructing their own proposals. These guys are clowns.

Originally posted by Glencairn

Definitely. Facts are important...

Good. Glad you agree. Just to help you out then....

Mitch McConnell (Ky.) filibustered against his own debt-ceiling proposal after Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) called his bluff.

McConnell filibusters McConnell, McCain blasts Paul, Demint criticizes Boehner, most Senate Republicans insult Bob Dole

I should really just read the second page before going all hog-wild in posting the same thing the two previous people did.

reply to post by BritofTexas


If I had seen this, or if it had happened yet at the time I posted the thread, I definitely would have added it to the opening post. I can't say I'm amused by the way it's playing out because I'd much rather see sincere efforts to work in a bi-partisan manner to find real solutions and not more game playing by both sides.

Part of calling someone's bluff should be a willingness to follow through if they beat you at your own game. McConnell called the dem's bluff and it did backfire, he should have the stones to see it through. It doesn't surprise me that he didn't, but it would have shown that he meant what he said.

My biggest problem with the whole thing is the passing of power from the legislative branch to the executive branch of the power to raise the debt ceiling limit. That should not be negotiable, but everything else should be on the table at this point.

Take care,
Cindi

reply to post by Glencairn

My biggest problem with the whole thing is the passing of power from the legislative branch to the executive branch of the power to raise the debt ceiling limit. That should not be negotiable, but everything else should be on the table at this point. Take care,

I sort of agree with you, but it doesn't really do that, but sort of it does. Its kinda confusing. The proposed procedure is:

1) The President sees that the ceiling needs to be raised.
2) The Congress can agree or disagree. If they disagree, they do so via a bill that says 'No Mr. President'.
3) The President can sign the 'no' bill or veto it. If he vetos it, the debt ceiling is raised, unless...
4) The Congress can override the veto with a 2/3 vote as they can with any veto.

Weird way of doing business, but at least it is unlikely to hold the economy hostage to ideologues bent on driving the world into another great depression.

Originally posted by Glencairn
McConnell offers vote, Reid objects

I did a search and didn't find anything on this newest development.

It seems that Mitch McConnell took to the floor and offered an immediate vote on President Obama's fiscal cliff plan. Harry Reid objected and shut the whole thing down, labeling the suggestion a "stunt." Then, shortly after, Reid claimed that the Obama/Geithner proposal doesn't exist.

Republicans keep being accused of being obstructionist and holding the nation/middle class hostage, so they say "sure, let's have a vote on Obama's plan." and Reid claims it's a stunt and they're still being obstructionist. Really?

Look Harry, you can't have it both ways. If repubs block Obama/Geithner's proposal they are bad and holding the middle class hostage .......

There you go...it only took you a few paragraphs to debunk your own BS.....PROPOSAL...

See a PROPOSAL is NOT LEGISLATION...IT IS NOT A BILL...And scribbling down nonsense and putting it to a vote is a STUNT.

Shall the Democrats immediately demand a vote on everything a member of the GOP proposes? That will make for some fun!

Idiotic crap.... If McConnel wants to actually WRITE UP a BILL, sponsor it and PROPOSE IT for discussion and debate AND a vote...GOD BLESS...do it...but don't waste anyones time with BS and more BS.

Isn't the FED due to lose it's charter in a couple weeks?

I can almost guarantee that there is legislation with all sorts of draconian surprises already written into a bill which might be raised and passed including renewing the FED in the same way it went down the first time.

With a small group voting on it in the 11th hour with most of Congress away on Christmas holiday break.

Congress does not write legislation anymore much less read it.
They have lawyers and lobbiest pen this stuff to suit corporate and banking interest and the best interest of
Congress members themselves and their Wall Street investment houses.

reply to post by PaperbackWriter

Isn't the FED due to lose it's charter in a couple weeks?

No.

The Federal reserve act was passed by the House on December 22, 1913 and in the Senate, on December 23, 1913. It also was on a 20 year charter, So far it looks scary right? right In 1927 The original Charter was amended To read "To have succession after February 25, 1927, until dissolved by Act of Congress or until forfeiture of franchise for violation of law."

Source for the quote: The Federal Reserve is NOT ending

Source for the facts: FRB FAQ

You have been conned by a very silly bit of disinformation, one that is trivially easy to refute. Some people enjoy spreading Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. Fortunately as an ATS member you understand that to "Deny Ignorance" is to set yourself free from charlatans.