Updated WIKI on Bob Lazar today

reply to post by BlasteR


"When he went public in March 1989, he appeared on US TV in shadow with his voice altered, under the pseudonym "Dennis", an inside joke since his boss at S-4 was called Dennis Mariani, in an attempt to remain anonymous. On 29/3/89 he took three of his friends, one of them John Lear, to the edge of S-4 to observe any UFO test flights through a telescope.They saw (and filmed) a bright light rise in a step manoeuvre, that is, it would hover in the air, briefly disappear and reappear a few feet higher, and then the light went down in the same way. When they went again the following week on 6/4/89, they were caught by a security guard. Their ID details were recorded on a computer in Area 51 and they were ordered to leave the area, despite it being public land. They did leave and the following day, Lazar was ordered to go to Area 51 for a meeting with some security guards and an FBI agent. It was then that he resigned and left.

After he resigned and after looking up his birth certificate (for a new job) and finding it gone, and then looking up more personal details about himself and also finding them missing....Including the places he used to work at (Government Departments etc )...all personal details of him appeared to be "missing".. Like Robert Scott Lazar simply did not exist.... He decided that he'd better go public on TV under his own name,

* the theory being that if anyone kills him after going completely public, then that action would prove that he was telling the truth.*

He went on TV to tell the full story in November 1989 and his story has (to my knowledge) remained consistent since then.

* This is a consistent policy of UFO "whistleblowers" The government agencies will always paint people like Robert Lazar as either Fools..Drug Crazed idiots..Attention Seekers..Money Seekers-Books-CD's-etc, or Idiots or Mental Patients. Unfortunately about 50 % of the general population will always agree."

~ Ironically, the fact that he is alive goes against the idea of him working there, while at the same time it is also a catch 22, as they cannot kill him without making him look like he is telling the truth. So they discredit him in every way possible.

It is possible Lazar worked at Groom Lake. What I find interesting was that after all his records had been erased, there was a section of the government that came out in support of him. It was the irony involved that made it into a headline. In the summer of 1999. Of all people, the IRS came out and said, not only did Lazar work there, but they took taxes out for him. So according to the IRS Lazar did work at one of the companies working in the S4 area. But then of course someone got to the IRS files and covered that story up too. Otherwise the military would have to come out and say why they were paying him. It was too late for them to do that. They still never have explained what they paid him for.

The military has alien craft. They are not going to throw them away. So these craft are being kept and studied somewhere and S4 is as good or better a place as any.

The following really sums it up for me

Knapp, who conducted the biggest investigation of the case, came to this conclusion;

“I’ve worked it longer than anyone and my opinion is that while it is not a black or white story and it is not clear as to what was going on whether Bob was really telling a revelation or whether he was telling a story that was supposed to be told. I don’t believe he was consciously telling some disinformation thing. I think he was led down a path. I think they let him see glimpses of stuff. They decided to pick someone who could be easily discredited after the story gets out and he was perfect for it. He had such crazy wild interests and had credentials that were not easily provable. They figured let’s see what happens when we tell this story of Area 51… I believe Bob really was out there. I believe he really did see some of this. He saw something that looks very much like flying saucers…I think maybe there are factions that wanted this story out. Would people really freak out? How would they react? It could very well be that they did have the intention – let’s tell this story. Bob gets discredited and then everyone will leave us alone, because we really do have exotic things flying around out there. No one will ever believe a story about what is flying around out here ever again... The effect was that they put it out and then pulled it back. They allowed Bob to spill the beans, allowed us to tell the story, and then in the eyes of a lot of people discredited him entirely.”1

reply to post by elitelogic


At first Los Alamos national Laboratory claimed that they had never heard of him. Then it became public knowledge that he was listed in their internal phone directory.

After that Los Alamos finally admitted that Bob Lazar worked as a physicist at the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility. So we at least know that part of his story was true.

"Lazar, very early on, produced a W2 form which stated he worked for Naval Intelligence during the time when he says he worked at S4. This W2 which bears the code E-6722MAJ, and states his working location as Nevada also bears another anomaly. When contacted the IRS lists his tax background as secret and when contacted the DNI (Department of Naval Intelligence) will confirm a Robert Scott Lazar worked for them during that time period in Nevada but all other details are secret."

reply to post by spiritualarchitect


What's funny about the time Lazar took Lear to see the UFO's at Groom is that I've yet to see any footage of UFO's in those vidoes. We have Lear filming himself at Groom Lake telling the audience on film about what he's seeing with Bob. You damn fool...nobody wants to see your giant mutated head...we want to see the UFO's. In typical Lear fashion, he's running his mouth off with nonsensical fifty-cent adjectives that nobody understands, instead of filming the UFO's that are overhead. He's the Gary Busey of ufology.

reply to post by spiritualarchitect

When contacted the IRS lists his tax background as secret and when contacted the DNI (Department of Naval Intelligence) will confirm a Robert Scott Lazar worked for them during that time period in Nevada but all other details are secret."

There is no such thing as the Department of Naval Intelligence. And this is why that W-2 is full of it...Lazar really messed up when he forged this document. On the W-2 he listed his employer as the United States Department of Naval Intelligence. Again...no such agency exists; never has. It's the Office of Naval Intelligence. And besides, the W-2 should have listed his contractor as his employer, not the customer as his employer.

Originally posted by spiritualarchitect
After that Los Alamos finally admitted that Bob Lazar worked as a physicist at the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility. So we at least know that part of his story was true.

That is not true actually - just when and where did Lazar get a physics degree?

reply to post by hellobruce


According to his records, Cal Tech and MIT...at the same time! He must have been really smart.

Element 115 is the main debunker of Lazar, if you don't know the story on element 115 don't bother replying, look it up.

Lazar described the door on one of the craft as a honeycomb type shape, a bunch of geometric shapes connected to eachother yet separate, he said it closed flawlessly, if this door existed why doesn't Lazar draw some schematics, patent it, sell the patent, sounds like something worth something, guess he doesn't know exactly how it worked but I've yet to see even a drawing of this let alone an attempt at a mini-replica creation, something I know I would do if I saw such a thing.

Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by spiritualarchitect
After that Los Alamos finally admitted that Bob Lazar worked as a physicist at the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility. So we at least know that part of his story was true.

That is not true actually - just when and where did Lazar get a physics degree?

George Knapp found an old Los Alamos phone directory showing Lazar listed as working for a contractor called Kirk-Meier, who provided contract technical people...according to this source he was probably a technician:

www.dreamlandresort.com...

1982: Listing in Los Alamos National Laboratory phone book, located by George Knapp. (8)

Stanton Friedman states: "The phone book is not just from LANL but LANL, The Department of Energy, Kirk Meier (spelling uncertain) and others. The listing after Bob's name clearly shows K/M which means Kirk Meier and proves he did NOT work for LANL, but for a subcontractor. This seems appropriate since the Meson Facility mentioned in the Monitor article is a user facility with teams coming from all over to set up their equipment for experiments at the accelerators. As many as 1000 people per year can go through there. They work at the Lab, NOT for the Lab. They do get listed in the phone directory. He apparently was a technician.

That source has a lot of facts from public records, so if you're not familiar with Lazar, that's a good place to start looking for some facts.

This project began as an attempt to verify Robert Lazar's story of "vanishing records". What was uncovered was not only a multitude of records, but records that portray an individual and story very much at odds with that generally accepted. Some of these records appear to contradict statements made by Lazar.

reply to post by BlasteR


Excrepts from Gene Huff's version of events:

"After losing his wife and the most important job a scientist could ever have, Bob was pretty much a broken man. His concern for their efforts at retaliation caused him to decide to go on television in silhouette and tell the story of what was going on out in central Nevada. After he did that, they shot his back tire out one evening as he was driving up an entrance ramp to get on the highway. This was an extra hint at what was in store for him if he didn't shut up.

Bob had decided to work with George Knapp to expose the story. This was an aggressive move on his part to try and gain some leverage. If he went high profile, he could force them to adopt a hands off policy. After going high profile, if they incarcerated him or killed him, they would have confirmed that what he was saying was true, and that was definitely not their desire.

At this point, we all agreed that there was great power in knowing that someone was listening on the phone. People watch what they say when they suspect their phone line is tapped, but it's a much different story when you're confident they're listening. We called friends in other states and told them Bob's story. We would also imply that we had informed numerous friends and agencies by mail, something that they could not monitor. If someone actually was listening, and I think they were, we must have driven them crazy trying to figure out what was real. They had to prepare for the worst and presume we might be telling the truth. Bob was being followed by unmarked cars both day and night. I was even followed one evening.


After this Bob proceeded to cooperate with George Knapp, who subsequently produced "UFOs, The Best Evidence". George won the UPI individual achievement award for that special. During the making of that documentary, George tried to check out Bob's credentials, including his schooling and his previous employment. George could only find a record of Bob's schooling at Pierce Junior College in California. Even Los Alamos denied that Bob ever worked there.

Bob provided George with evidence that he had worked at Los Alamos. This included the names of people he worked with, newspaper articles about him, and even a LANL phone book that listed Bob's name in it. People were apparently going to great lengths to detach from Bob Lazar. Eventually Bob cooperated with George in contacting Kirk-Mayer, the LANL sub-contractor that Bob worked for at LANL. Both Kirk-Mayer and LANL admitted that Bob had been issued a "Z number" of 094729 on May 18, 1982, but both said they no longer had any record of Bob's employment. By the way, a "Z number" is some prerequisite identification number for anyone who works at any of the LANL facilities. Bob also provided George with his W-2 from S4, however, George ran into dead ends when he tried to find who deposited money in IRS and FICA accounts on behalf of Bob Lazar. The word was that some IRS and Social Security files are also classified.

In the months that followed, ufology began to become more mainstream and much of it was due to George Knapp and others exposing Bob Lazar's story. The Rachel Bar and Grill, outside of area 51, became the "Little A le Inn" and people began running bus tours out to watch the sky over Groom Lake. George Knapp received 30 to 40 phone calls on a daily basis which involved people’s reports and questions regarding all aspects of ufology. Journalists from all over the world were chasing Bob Lazar for interviews, and still are for that matter. Then came the brothel bust.

This story isn't as simple as some guy with no credentials makes some flying saucer claims and then gets busted for pandering.

I fully understand everyone's apprehensions about the lack of evidence of Bob Lazar's schooling. If I didn't know him, I would be apprehensive, too. I wish I had been around when Bob went to school, but I wasn't. Anyone who has met Bob Lazar knows that you don't know what he knows by taking 1 electronics course at Pierce Junior College in California. When George Knapp couldn't find any records on Bob, I asked Bob about it privately. I told him that if he did overstate his credentials that he should tell me and I would try and help him smooth it over. I certainly believed he worked at Los Alamos and S4, even if he had overstated his credentials. I believed, and still believe, his story is way too important to lose it's impact because of something like this. Bob stood firm and didn't change his story. I've seen him do this about other subjects and I haven't caught him in a lie yet.


Evidence is abundant that he worked at Los Alamos. In the early 80's if you worked at Los Alamos you had to have a degree or be working toward one at the University of New Mexico at Los Alamos. That's why there IS a branch of the University of New Mexico in Los Alamos. That's probably still the rule, I don't know. Since Bob was never enrolled there, obviously, LANL believed Bob had credentials.

After you've read the preceding information and after we've had some questions and answers and dialogue on internet, I think you'll have enough information to put Bob's story in perspective. I'm aware of all of the different theories about him which range from total fraud to a subject of mind control to who knows what. Most of those are based on misinformation by incompetent UFO researchers and blatant liars.”

Bob Lazar's fraudulent W-2 statement. There is no agency known as the United States Department of Naval Intelligence; it is the Office of Naval Intelligence. You think someone with degrees from MIT and Cal Tech would not committ such a menial mistake when forging credentials.

So this is one of those videos where Bob and John are ufo-watching up at Groom Lake. In none of the videos that I've seen with Bob and John have I seen them capture UFO activity. Are we supposed to believe they witnessed UFO activity and then started filming after for their commentary of the events? Are we supposed to believe no one thought to record it??? It's mind-numbing to think anyone would believe them!

I believe there has already been a post on what Gene Huff had to say on Bob Lazar and his credentials. It's common sense to know that anyone working at Los Alamos would have had to of had a degree at least. I think people are underestimating the power that governments have if people are suggesting that Lazar never worked at Los Alamos or Area 51. Do people really think the government could not wipe clean historical records on individuals such as Lazar? I mean they can issue people with new identity's but cannot wipe another persons clean? Seriously people, think about it.

John Lear is a completely different story and quite frankly an embarrassment to Ufology.

reply to post by Cosmic911


Chirp...chirp...chirp...
The silence is deafening...

Originally posted by Cosmic911



Bob Lazar's fraudulent W-2 statement. There is no agency known as the United States Department of Naval Intelligence; it is the Office of Naval Intelligence. You think someone with degrees from MIT and Cal Tech would not committ such a menial mistake when forging credentials.

Don't be naive.
Haven't you heard that within the intelligence community that there are organizations within
organizations that officially do not exist?

The United States Department of Naval Intelligence is one of those organizations.

reply to post by TauCetixeta


Naive? Who's being naive? Do you even realize how foolish your explanation is? (I appreciate that at least you tried to answer my question.)

So you want me to believe that this super-secret intelligence agency is so secret that it doesn't exist, yet they just exposed themselves by listing themselves on a W-2. It's a complete contraindication. Complete Fail. An agency that doesn't exist doesn't pass out W-2 statements at year's end. They don't have addresses. They don't take taxes out of your paycheck. A strawman company would be listed on his W-2, or other front company. At the very least, his contractor, which is his employer would be listed, not the customer, which would have been the Office of Naval Intelligence.

Just think about your answer for a second...

Originally posted by TauCetixeta

Originally posted by Cosmic911



Bob Lazar's fraudulent W-2 statement. There is no agency known as the United States Department of Naval Intelligence; it is the Office of Naval Intelligence. You think someone with degrees from MIT and Cal Tech would not committ such a menial mistake when forging credentials.

Don't be naive.
Haven't you heard that within the intelligence community that there are organizations within
organizations that officially do not exist?

The United States Department of Naval Intelligence is one of those organizations.

If so, how would you know this... and how would we have heard?

I love how the pro-Lazar camp always resorts to the "shadow government" defense whenever a reasonable and rational explanation isn't available. "Well the government made his records disappear." Or "Well the government erased this....or erased that." How convenient that they don't have to explain anything at all. It's no wonder no one believes any of it. "Well the government created that prostitution pandering charge." Come on, people? Wake up. People who supposedly graduated from MIT and CalTech at the same time, don't end up in obscurity playing with children's chemistry sets in northern Michigan.

Originally posted by Cosmic911
reply to post by TauCetixeta

 

Naive? Who's being naive? Do you even realize how foolish your explanation is? (I appreciate that at least you tried to answer my question.)

So you want me to believe that this super-secret intelligence agency is so secret that it doesn't exist, yet they just exposed themselves by listing themselves on a W-2. It's a complete contraindication. Complete Fail. An agency that doesn't exist doesn't pass out W-2 statements at year's end. They don't have addresses. They don't take taxes out of your paycheck. A strawman company would be listed on his W-2, or other front company. At the very least, his contractor, which is his employer would be listed, not the customer, which would have been the Office of Naval Intelligence.

Just think about your answer for a second...

edit on 7-12-2012 by Cosmic911 because: (no reason given)

It's caused plausible deniability.
Lawyers sit down and create these organizations that don't officially exist.

Another example would be the Witness Protection Program.
People receive money who are officially off the books. No taxes. No nothing.
The Shadow Government is very real.

Originally posted by Cosmic911
I love how the pro-Lazar camp always resorts to the "shadow government" defense whenever a reasonable and rational explanation isn't available. "Well the government made his records disappear." Or "Well the government erased this....or erased that." How convenient that they don't have to explain anything at all. It's no wonder no one believes any of it. "Well the government created that prostitution pandering charge." Come on, people? Wake up. People who supposedly graduated from MIT and CalTech at the same time, don't end up in obscurity playing with children's chemistry sets in northern Michigan.

Cosmic911, since I have been on this forum I have known you to be a very intelligent member so please do not discredit yourself by pretending you know the facts that many members on this forum are searching for. Just like you have your opinions on Robert Lazar, everyone else has theirs. It is quite possible that Lazar could be making this whole story up but why would he? I don't seem to recall Lazar being paid any sum of money to participate in the interviews he done with George Knapp. Additionally, if this was just about money why haven't we seen him in recent years making outlandish statements like Steven Greer and John Lear?

As far as I am aware Lazar's United Nuclear company is still going strong and he's making a bit of money which may answer my first question.

There are lots of things with Lazar's story that do make you think who do I believe and is this true? The thing which bugs me the most about Lazar's story and the investigation carried out when Lazar opened up a can or worms is why Los Alamos denied Lazar worked there until Knapp found Lazar's number in the directory and he was listed as a Technician? I know Lazar worked as a sub-contractor for Kirk-Mayer so why wasn't this employment listed on Lazar's 1986 bankruptcy paperwork?

The key to this story in my opinion is Dr. Edward Teller. I am 99% certain that he had something to do with Lazar getting the alleged job at S4.