Updated WIKI on Bob Lazar today

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posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by Laykilla
 


People who claim to know secrets die all the time, it doesnt PROVE anything. But if he was telling the truth there would always be the risk one day he could prove it or someone would back up his story.

He is going to die eventually, we all do. Tell me at that point will his death 100% prove he is telling the truth about area 51? At what age and in what manor can he die and the government not be blamed?

The simple fact is he is not a threat because his story is not true, no one will ever back it up.


He doesn't have access to any topsecret stuff anymore.
He also doesn't have any physical evidence, if he did -- he would of presented it already.

This makes his claim 100% unverifiable.

And yes, if he died under non-suspicious circumstances, it would just be another death.

If he was shot/poisoned/murdered without motive, all it does is circumstantially strengthen his case. Then there is always risk that if assassinated, that the plot of his assassination could be uncovered and traced back to those who ordered the hit, which would absolutely 100% prove his claim.

So yeah... if you are sitting here saying that leaving him alive is a risk, you haven't thought it through very carefully, because killing him is a bigger risk given the circumstances.

If they had no other choice, they would take that risk, but alas -- they do have other choices. It's quite a stretch of imagination to fathom that he would be able to prove it now. The more time that passes, the more unlikely it becomes that he'll ever be able to substantiate his claims.

Hence the reason assassination is unwarranted, since it bodes a bigger risk than the possibility of Lazar being able to prove it empirically.

edit on 2-12-2012 by Laykilla because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by Laykilla
 

But like i said :

He is going to die eventually, we all do. Tell me at that point will his death 100% prove he is telling the truth about area 51?



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 06:15 PM
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Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by Laykilla
 

But like i said :

He is going to die eventually, we all do. Tell me at that point will his death 100% prove he is telling the truth about area 51?


This is irrelevant. Context is everything.

Tell me if he WAS assassinated and it was traced back to a government agency would that NOT be proof he was telling the truth?

A murder or unexpected/untimely death tends to have the affect of causing an investigation.

Do you see the error in your logic yet?
edit on 2-12-2012 by Laykilla because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 06:16 PM
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it is easy to prove Lazar is lying about his academic career - exactly when did he attend MIT?

swallowingthecamel.blogspot.com.au...



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by Laykilla
 


People who claim to know secrets die all the time, it doesnt PROVE anything. But if he was telling the truth there would always be the risk one day he could prove it or someone would back up his story.

He is going to die eventually, we all do. Tell me at that point will his death 100% prove he is telling the truth about area 51? At what age and in what manor can he die and the government not be blamed?

The simple fact is he is not a threat because his story is not true, no one will ever back it up.

If Bob Lazar came forward with his story and then died, it wouldn't be a matter of "oh well, people die all the time!" It would be a matter of "holy #, this guy just came forward with extremely sensitive information and then died! That can't be a coincidence!" People were already up-in-arms when they heard Bob Lazar's story. Can you imagine how much worse it would have been if he died immediately after?

But who cares about it now? If Bob Lazar died tomorrow, then it wouldn't be as big of a deal. Sure, some people will always have conspiracy theories they made up, but most people won't blame the government for Lazar's death if it happened tomorrow. He's an older guy now. But on the flip side, why even bother killing him now? Especially when you could potentially screw up, get caught, and then blow the roof on the whole thing? He's told everything he knows and no, he doesn't have any way to prove it. Lazar has admitted that himself, he doesn't have any proof. If the story was all 100% true, what could he even do at this point to prove it? He can't take people over to the Papoose mountains and show them S-4. I hate to say it, but he's got nothing. It's a huge risk for little-to-no reward.

I say again, if you were in charge of instigating a cover-up, it would be blown within a week. Your proposed methods would never work. I would advise that you step back and look at this situation again, because right now I keep getting the impression that you have a very shallow outlook on what is going on.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by Laykilla
 


Its a very relevant question, but you can dodge it if you dont have a good answer..


All it would take is a few people to say he had gone to MIT and to back up his story and that would a much more important clue that he had been telling the truth about his whole history being erased. That WOULD be something undeniable pointing to the fact he telling the truth about a cover up. This would be a very easy thing to happen and every day he is alive that would be a huge security risk.

So on one hand you have him dying or vanishing where people would just wonder about the cause verses someone coming forward and backing him up which would totally prove a cover up by erasing his history.

edit on 2-12-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by ProfessorT
Instead of all of us sitting behind our various devices that connect us to the Internet and AboveTopSecret trying to work out if Bob Lazar is telling the truth or not what really needs to happen is for Lazar to stray into the public spotlight again. I feel we have more questions than answers


This has been gone over time and again. This is just the latest iteration. The problem is that Lazar managed to neutralize himself with his fake credentials, then spin this improbable story of the government "disappearing" him when he got caught. The government didn't need to do that because he did it to himself. Frankly I don't think he thought it would ever get this far. So the government (or a faction) used him and let him get neutralied by himself. now they poke at him and his business now and again to let him know they still know where he lives.

So let's just say Knapp interviewed him again. In order to regain his credibility, the interview would have to go something like this:

Knapp: Did you ever go to MIT, Bob.
Lazar: No, George. I never did.
Knapp: Did you go to Cal Tech?
Lazar: No, I never did.
Knapp: Where did you go?
Lazar; I went to a small community college for awhile in California.
Knapp: Why did you say you went to those fancy places?
Lazar: Frankly, George, I thought I could get away with it and never thought I'd be in the public spotlight. I know I'm a pretty smart guy and I'm self-taught, so I thought I had enough moxie to pull it off, but I didn't expect the scrutiny. I was just trying to get ahead as a non-famous person.
Knapp: But then you say you were disappeared and all that?
Lazar: I was a deer caught in the headlights. I was just trying to pull it out.
Knapp: But you did get to Area 51 or S-4 or whatever you call it?
Lazar: Yup, but it was strange. They let me see it right away, before my clearance.
Knapp: And then got rid of you?
Lazar: Yes, over my wife and all.
Knapp: And that W-2?
Lazar; That's gotta be fake, but not by me. I worked for a private contractor for a lot more than 900 bucks. I'm in that base phone book. You can look it up.
Knapp: So now what?
Lazar: Now I'm a target again.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by BlasteR
 

Boring old facts and such:

There isn't, and wasn't, a "Department of Naval Intelligence." There is an Office of Naval Intelligence, whose name Lazar screwed up and was stuck with when he manufactured support for his story.

No one would use "Department of Naval Intelligence" as a cover for a bunch of Air Force UFO experiments in the desert. The improbability of it all would invite curiosity from all the wrong parties. And if they did use it as a cover, they'd backstop it so there would be more evidence that it existed than a handful of documents owned by Bob Lazar, the only person who claims it existed.

If you're a DOD employee, your W-2 doesn't have the agency you worked for on it, it has the agency that paid you. Right now, that's DFAS. In the 80s, it would have been service-specific, and the DOD might have had a separate pay agency for civilians, I don't know. Anyway, the name he typed on there is too specific, and the address isn't specific enough. But of course, he couldn't include a real named agency, or a real address, because then people might investigate and disprove his claims.

Lazar claims he was a government contractor working for EG&G. But his W-2 isn't from EG&G, it's from (an imaginary unit of) the Federal government. Oops.

Why just an ID badge and a W-2? Because these are easy to make. No one knows what an S-4 badge looks like (because he made it up), so it could look like anything; and he had seen a W-2, so he thought he knew what it would look like. He couldn't convincingly fake an OPF or LES or a FEHB packet (if he decides he was a Federal employee), or the documentation used by EG&G. As it turns out, he couldn't convincingly fake a W-2 or an ID badge, either, but at least he tried.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by PhoenixOD
So on one hand you have him dying or vanishing where people would just wonder about the cause verses someone coming forward and backing him up which would totally prove a cover up by erasing his history.

edit on 2-12-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

Wrong. There have literally been so many people that have backed up Bob Lazar's story that we must be very critical about who we trust and who we do not.

This is the ET community we're talking about. Each testimony must be weighed on its own merits. You're so quick to write off the testimony of Bob Lazar, what would stop you from writing off the testimonies of everyone who correlates his story with their own?



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 06:37 PM
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People will believe what they will when it comes to Bob Lazaar. Like many topics in ufology, it is a highly polarized issue. Pro-Lazaar folk are blind to many arguments, as are the anti-Lazaar folk. Because of his credibility issues, Lazaar has few things going for him. But what he does have is consistency. Despite what may or may not be his academic credentials, he is obviously a smart guy. His story has pretty much remained the same after all these years. Usually, when people are lying their story will change, even if slightly the more the story is told. But like I said, Lazaar is an intelligent guy. We see a lot of the same issues with Dr. Greer's credibility and his stories.
edit on 2-12-2012 by Cosmic911 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 06:40 PM
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reply to post by Damsel
 


No one has said he went to MIT which would prove a coverup. It would be far easier to kill 1 guy and leave everyone guessing than have to go to the trouble of trying to stop everyone he potentially ever met at MIT talking and blowing the coverup story which would prove some of his story.

Security forces like the CIA don't mess about with risk in that manor. You are being very naive. Its one action of damage control v a lifetime of worrying the story might be blown.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by Damsel
 


No one has said he went to MIT which would prove a coverup. It would be far easier to kill 1 guy and leave everyone guessing than have to go to the trouble of trying to stop everyone he potentially ever met at MIT talking and blowing the coverup story which would prove some of his story.

Security forces like the CIA don't mess about with risk in that manor. You are being very naive. Its one action of damage control v a lifetime of worrying the story might be blown.


The story is already blown. It's only dangerous if it's proven to the public at large, and it never will be unless the government decides to fess up.

As far as stopping everyone he potentially ever met at MIT, that's not what they do. I think you're the one being naive here. You're thinking we live in a perfect world where if you just glance at someone in passing, then you're going to remember them 10, 20, 50 years later, plus be in a position where you witness their testimony, plus be able to identify them, and then actually come forward to back up their story.
If you want to erase someone, you deal strictly with personal and historical records. If they had succeeded in erasing Lazar, and then someone said "Hey, Bob Lazar disappeared," the response would just be "Bob Lazar who? There are no records of him. He doesn't exist."

Do more research and you'll find plenty of people have come forward and backed up Bob Lazar's story. Is the public convinced? Are YOU convinced? The answer is no, because it doesn't matter. He doesn't have proof.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by Laykilla
 


Its a very relevant question, but you can dodge it if you dont have a good answer..


All it would take is a few people to say he had gone to MIT and to back up his story and that would a much more important clue that he had been telling the truth about his whole history being erased. That WOULD be something undeniable pointing to the fact he telling the truth about a cover up. This would be a very easy thing to happen and every day he is alive that would be a huge security risk.

So on one hand you have him dying or vanishing where people would just wonder about the cause verses someone coming forward and backing him up which would totally prove a cover up by erasing his history.

edit on 2-12-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)


You make a ridiculous assumption that people would have to wonder the cause. This is my point.

Investigations happen. The government doesn't always win... see watergate.

The fact is, HOW he would die makes all the difference in the world. Something you refuse to accept.

I'll answer your question, if he dies 20 years later of natural causes, no it wouldn't prove anything...

But if he was murdered, it very well could be proven that he was.

Which is my point.
edit on 2-12-2012 by Laykilla because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 06:54 PM
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reply to post by PhoenixOD
 


I don't comment much on ATS but i totally agree with what you're saying, there's no way the government would go to all the trouble trying to erase someones history rather than just kill then. Bob Lazar would have been smoked a long time ago if he was a threat to security.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 06:56 PM
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Originally posted by Damsel
The story is already blown. It's only dangerous if it's proven to the public at large, and it never will be unless the government decides to fess up.

As far as stopping everyone he potentially ever met at MIT, that's not what they do. I think you're the one being naive here. You're thinking we live in a perfect world where if you just glance at someone in passing, then you're going to remember them 10, 20, 50 years later, plus be in a position where you witness their testimony, plus be able to identify them, and then actually come forward to back up their story.
If you want to erase someone, you deal strictly with personal and historical records. If they had succeeded in erasing Lazar, and then someone said "Hey, Bob Lazar disappeared," the response would just be "Bob Lazar who? There are no records of him. He doesn't exist."

Do more research and you'll find plenty of people have come forward and backed up Bob Lazar's story. Is the public convinced? Are YOU convinced? The answer is no, because it doesn't matter. He doesn't have proof.


Have you ever attended an institution of higher learning? Its impossible to graduate from a university such as MIT and not gain any personal connections. A golden parachute of connections and an unparalleled higher education are the whole point of such prestigious institutions. The point isn't that Bob doesn't have proof. The point is that there's no point to wipe away his history if theres any chance of someone remembering him, whether it be a peer or a professor.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 07:01 PM
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reply to post by Laykilla
 


There's a million ways to die that don't look like murder heart attack is the no1 cause of death in the US and there are some many untraceable ways for that to happen its ridiculous. If he was a risk he would be gone already and no one would be able to prove anything. Case closed.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 07:05 PM
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All very interesting.

There have been many TV shows about Area 51 and Mr Lazar.

Many scribes on ATS obviously havent seen them...

1. Bob Lazar FIRST came to prominence, when, i think John Lear, introduced him to "Sightings" groups and enthusiasts in the late 1980s, because he told Mr Lear, he knew when these "Craft" would do there test flights. He use to go with groups of observers to the mountains around Groom Lake in the early hours of the morning, and Sure enough, the times he told the observers when the tests flights were, was indeed the times when these floating, dancing, Not Normal "aircraft" would show themselves, and be witnessed and videoed by dozens of people.....So please everyone.....how did he know that?
2. Mr Lazar said he worked at S4........nobody new what S4 was, until he told them.....
3. He said the techs fly out of McCracken Airport in white unmarked "Janet" flights with blacked windows, and bused to the work sight in buses with blackout windows......Noone knew or even cared what those white Planes were, until he explained it.....How did he know that?

One of the problems was, he was so matter of fact about explaining things.....he never really got excited or even agitated...that is his personality, maybe it makes him a better thinker.
I think many people would have been put off by his casual tone...and didnt believe him.

Also note, the Naval involvement........who would have even thought back then, that the Navy would be into secret craft??? or even that they have an NCIS like on tv
.
The "Naval Space Command"..is it really that far fetched...I think some NASA Astronauts were ex Navy pilots too.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 07:05 PM
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Originally posted by PhoenixOD
reply to post by Laykilla
 


There's a million ways to die that don't look like murder heart attack is the no1 cause of death in the US and there are some many untraceable ways for that to happen its ridiculous. If he was a risk he would be gone already and no one would be able to prove anything. Case closed.


Will you for once actually address what I'm saying?

If he died of a heart attack immediately after leaking the story, it would have been the most suspicious thing in the world. Even you admit that you know about how many ways there are to cause untraceable heart attacks in a person.
But if he dies of a heart attack tomorrow, who cares? It won't be nearly as suspicious, sure, but it also won't serve nearly as much of a purpose. Bob's already said he's told us everything he knows. What's the point now? It's a huge risk with no payoff. Case re-opened.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 07:09 PM
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reply to post by Lysis
 


That's so true, there's no way to go through college and not have anyone know you. It would be easy for anyone at a later date to confirm his story. Its quite clear some people in this thread are quite clueless to this.

Its obvious he never went to MIT, his story has more holes than a swiss cheese.

edit on 2-12-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 07:10 PM
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JFK, a sitting POTUS, was assassinated in a conspiracy and no one worried about connecting any dots or keeping that hushed. The coup didn't worry about trying to cover up his death with a heart attack, or faulty brakes, or other devious way. They put a hole the size of a football into his brain. If was Lazaar really knew anything I don't see TPTB having any qualms about killing him either.
edit on 2-12-2012 by Cosmic911 because: (no reason given)





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