Updated WIKI on Bob Lazar today

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posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 03:32 PM
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Bob Lazar - WIKI

I updated the information regarding TV appearances. I saw an episode of a TV show called "Conspiracy?" the title of the show was "Area 51". It originally aired in 2004. I watched it on "H2" (History Channel 2).

It was not shown on the WIKI so I updated it.

It was pretty interesting episode. Bob Lazar tells his entire story from the beginning.. Culminating in what he calls destruction of his birth, employment and educational records to discredit him. Even what he sais was an attempt on his life at one point.

I'm not saying the guy couldn't be lying but what I will say is this - This guy doesn't talk about this like some idiot who thought this up in a garage somewhere. He is extremely adimant and his story has remained consistent and very specific.

One of the strangest things in the episode is Jim Goodall's story about how he took Bob Lazar's supposed 1988-1989 "W2" statement to the Department of Naval Investigation in the Pentagon. The employer on the W2 is "United States Department of Naval Intelligence". Jim was trying to determine what the zip code was because it was apparently a classified zip code.

The infamous zip code: 20038

Jim Goodall was called in to an Admiral's office and was warned not to come into the admiral's office with it again or he would be court martialed. This is when Jim Goodall was still on active duty with the Minnesota National Guard.

Very strange!

What the government has Failed to do is claim the guy as a phony. That would end the entire debate. But they have never done so. That is also strange.

Stanton Friedman has remained adimant about Bob's educational records proving him as a phony. But that wouldn't matter if the government had destroyed everything down to his birth records and potentially falsified/altered past educational records to discredit him - as Bob Lazar claims.

Bob does talk on the show about someday hoping to prove his claims. Until then we'll have to wait - but I'm not holding my breath.

-ChriS
edit on 2-12-2012 by BlasteR because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 03:52 PM
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Bob could just get someone from his class at school to confirm if he was there?

I cant help thinking it would have been far easier to just make the guy drop dead of a heart attack or disappear than go to all the trouble of erasing his history in the hop that this would discredit him. I mean far more important people have been killed for far less in the past.

Even if what he said was true they could have had him put in jail for breaking the official secret act or whatever its called in the US.

IMO Bob Lazar is either crazy or a liar, maybe even both.

edit on 2-12-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Bob could just get someone from his class at school to confirm if he was there?


If what Bob says IS true, would you risk your life and cereer by helping him?

I'm not sying what he says is all true, but there are alot of oddities to the story. I dont think we should just dismiss him.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by VoidHawk

Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Bob could just get someone from his class at school to confirm if he was there?


If what Bob says IS true, would you risk your life and cereer by helping him?

I'm not sying what he says is all true, but there are alot of oddities to the story. I dont think we should just dismiss him.


But no one is asking any of his classmates to back up his UFO story, just if he went to school in the first place. Unless you are suggesting the government 'got' to everyone he ever met at school as well as erasing all his history. No secret powerful organization would go to all the trouble threatening everyone he ever met & secretly destroy all public and private records and risk a whole bunch of people believing him or finding out the truth. It would have been far easier to off the guy (heart attack , car crash, plane crash , robbery at home, mugging etc..) or put him in jail for breaking his secrets agreement.

Just because something sounds interesting or odd is no reason to believe it..Bob is the made up most important person in his own crazy fantasy..so important in his mind that the CIA wouldn't even dare to have him killed. But they will try to take out world leaders or heads of state when it suits them?

edit on 2-12-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Bob could just get someone from his class at school to confirm if he was there?

I cant help thinking it would have been far easier to just make the guy drop dead of a heart attack or disappear than go to all the trouble of erasing his history in the hop that this would discredit him. I mean far more important people have been killed for far less in the past.

Even if what he said was true they could have had him put in jail for breaking the official secret act or whatever its called in the US.

IMO Bob Lazar is either crazy or a liar, maybe even both.

edit on 2-12-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)


Yes. This is logic.

Its like the whole "Satanic panic" folks (like John Todd) with their Wild claims and zero proof. The [insert shadow organization here] went through all the trouble to destroy records, scare or threaten administrators, etc, etc...And yet these people have just been allowed to talk and talk and talk about [insert conspiracy here]

I too find this story very fishy. Lets be honest, the real PTB (whoever they are) could easily have set up a "robbery gone bad" or any number of (very easy to do) scenarios in which people like Lazar would have ended up dead before they even had much of a platform- And even after getting a bit of a platform these things could be easily done.

A "secret" this big would be protected by any means necessary. And these people would obviously be smart enough to find a way to get to Lazar, have him recant, be silent or end up dead (or someone close to him)

-Nope. It doesn't add up.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by PhoenixOD
 


It is true that Bob Lazar's personal history is pretty bizarre. There was talk about a Brothel he owned with a previous wife in Las Vegas called "The Reno Brothel" ..

Near the bottom of this page

Also involves the suicide of a former spouse and some other odd monetary history according to this page.

However, we have to keep in mind that this cannot be used for or against his claims because it doesn't prove or disprove whether or not he worked at Area 51.

Also, if you take it at face value it is easy to overlook the possibility of some of this information being planted/falsified by the government - Just like they would've had to falsify/destroy his birth certificate, educational records, etc..

Even if all of these shady things in his past are true it doesn't refute his claims - in fact in a strange way it supports the possibility of the gov trying to discredit him or "sour his name".

Since there isn't definitive proof either way we aren't left with much other than suspicion.

-ChriS



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by BlasteR
reply to post by PhoenixOD
 


It is true that Bob Lazar's personal history is pretty bizarre. There was talk about a Brothel he owned with a previous wife in Las Vegas called "The Reno Brothel" ..

Near the bottom of this page

Also involves the suicide of a former spouse and some other odd monetary history according to this page.

However, we have to keep in mind that this cannot be used for or against his claims because it doesn't prove or disprove whether or not he worked at Area 51.

Also, if you take it at face value it is easy to overlook the possibility of some of this information being planted/falsified by the government - Just like they would've had to falsify/destroy his birth certificate, educational records, etc..

Even if all of these shady things in his past are true it doesn't refute his claims - in fact in a strange way it supports the possibility of the gov trying to discredit him or "sour his name".

Since there isn't definitive proof either way we aren't left with much other than suspicion.

-ChriS


Yes, no definitive "proof" one way or another but still a logical; way of looking at things.

How many manhours and different people would have to be involved to continue to discredit him over the coarse of his life? It would be an ongoing project until he died. Plus he would have to be watched awfully close throughout his life.

-VS-

Offing him in the early stages.

Its simple Logic. The CIA (or whoever) could have done him in with minimal people and manpower and this would have been buried away long ago... Nobody to keep tabs on, no loose ends, no constant discrediting, etc, etc, etc.

EDIT/Add- And the plethora of different people and organizations needed to keep this ongoing "Lazar" project going would ALSO realize there is a REASON he is being discredited/followed/tapped and thus his story must be true- Which by proxy tells a ton of other people throughout a ton of years that he is telling the truth.
edit on 2-12-2012 by DarKPenguiN because: to add something



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Bob could just get someone from his class at school to confirm if he was there?

I cant help thinking it would have been far easier to just make the guy drop dead of a heart attack or disappear than go to all the trouble of erasing his history in the hop that this would discredit him. I mean far more important people have been killed for far less in the past.

Even if what he said was true they could have had him put in jail for breaking the official secret act or whatever its called in the US.

IMO Bob Lazar is either crazy or a liar, maybe even both.

edit on 2-12-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

First off, the government did not erase Bob Lazar's history in hopes that it would discredit him. They erased his history before he ever came forward with his story because he had been removed from the project and, apparently, they felt he was a threat, so they were going to erase his history and then kill him. It's what governments do to "erase" people. He came forward to protect himself, because if he suddenly died, everyone would think the government killed him and it would be even more suspicious.

As far as putting him in jail for coming forward with these secrets, that's just ridiculous. If they did that, that would prove the whole story was true, both because they took action against him and because they'd have to confirm it in court.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by PhoenixOD
 


i guess you haven't seen an mit classroom, the worlds largest collection of introverted, awkwardly social band of nerds ever assembled in the history of earth, every semester.

eye contact with a woman would be liable to cause spontaneous human combustion.

its like a group of random strangers that are so absorbed in thought that no body else exists.

99.9% of them don't even know each others name. even the professor probably doesn't even know their names.

asking anybody to recall who was with him in a class of 100, 40 years ago, especially if he avoided all social activities is literally pointless.

and erasing school records, for national security reasons at schools like mit, who rely heavily on the military for funding and have an extensive track record of collaboration on projects, is more than plausible.

if you're researching ufo tech, who better than to contact mit, the best and brightest group of engineers and technical minds on the planet, bar none.

you wouldn't be called crazy if you believed bob lazar.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by Damsel
 



because if he suddenly died, everyone would think the government killed him and it would be even more suspicious.


People who speak out against governments and tell secrets die all the time. If what he said was real it would be so important they just would not care..he would be dead and gone and probably that same fate would happen to most of the people he knew. He is not so important that he couldn't be killed. It would be quicker, easier and less risky to 'off' him than have him running around for the next 40 years telling his story and maybe one day managing to prove it.

They would have had to get to all the people he knew, and everyone who potentially ever came in contact with him at school including the cleaners. Its just ridiculous to imagine thats the course of action they would have taken.

Bang! Dead.. problem over.

Now they could use all that manpower to keep that secret instead of the crazy erasing history idea..

As for putting him in jail they dont even have to address the UFO stuff , just the fact he mentioned anything that happened at area 51 is enough to lock him away if he had really been there.

edit on 2-12-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 05:17 PM
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You don't really need government conspiracies to show Lazar's story was at least in part false. You can use his own words to show this. That's not to say he didn't see anything, but if he did it points to extreme sloppiness on the part of security, or/ See below.

Bob Lazar did not attend MIT. There is not a shred of evidence that he did. No professor or student has come forth who remembers him. Further, the ONE professor that Lazar remembers happens to have been a professor at a community college that Lazar DID attend, and these dates overlap. In other words, Lazar would have had to be going to both schools simultaneously. He only remembers ONE professor? C'mon! Who was my advisor? Kenneth Read. Who was chair? That would be Carol Eastman. (She had a skull on her filing cabinet!!) Who taught statistics? Robert E. Lee Farris (the larger the formula the more work it does for you.) Who got you started? Donna Leonnetti. (baby faced dinosaurs were cute) Who taught Geology? Jack Hyde. Philosophy? Devon Edrington. This was as far back as 1967 and Lazar is claiming he only remembers ONE professor and THAT name turned out to be wrong? I'm sorry, but I don't believe it. You can't be serious.

There ARE records of his high school, which show that he did not do particularly well, certainly not well enough to earn him admission to MIT, one of the most exclusive schools in the nation. You simply do not get into MIT if you graduate in the bottom half of your class. There is NO confirmation he attended Cal Tech. None.

So for the sake of argument, let's say Lazar DID graduate from MIT. When was that?

Lazar doesn't know. He simply can't quite remember. OK. test time? When did you graduate from high school, what year? When did you graduate from college, what year? Has anyone ELSE here forgotten? Didn't think so. basically all Lazar can prove is that he attended some courses at a community college. The idea that the government "disappeared" his records is simply his claim, with no corroboration, but with Lazar's own words flubbing him up.

Now about his W-2:


We don't know. The street address is real (and ironic: James Lovell commanded the ill-fated Apollo 13 mission.) It is a real address in Las Vegas, though the zip code is now different--not unusual for an expanding city. We found the house on Google earth. The amount of wages is very small. Even at 1989 wages this could not possibly be for more than a couple of weeks. A Japanese researcher says that the social security number, here redacted, belonged to a New York woman, but at this stage we can't verify that one way or another. Of course, the entire document could be 100% fake. There's nothing on the document that 'proves" Lazar worked at Area 51. Further, there is no such thing as the 'United States Department of Naval Intelligence.' Navy departments are usually called 'commands.' Anyone could have typed up one of these on an easily available form. Note: Nevada does not have a state income tax.


From here. I wrote it.

But he's in the phone book as a contractor employee, so he PROBABLY WAS THERE!

YES, DESPITE the falseness of his educational record, he probably was there, but not for very long. The W-2 proves that well enough. So what could he do and what would he have been allowed to see BEFORE his security clearance came through? (I've been through the security clearance schtick, btw and it ain't trivial!) Do you mean to claim that because of Teller's recommendation they hired this kid provisionally and sent him out to work on UFOs before his security clearance ever came through? And then when it did not, let him go?

SO, here's what I think happened, total guesswork, but fits the facts as we know them:

Lazar was young. He embellished his credentials, probably regretting it. Through Teller he got a job, and they did a preliminary investigation and found his faked degrees, but they said, "Hmm, just who we are looking for." and he went to the field, and he was allowed to see a saucer. Intentionally allowed, and then his security clearance was not allowed because of his marital issues (they said), and then Lazar told his story, and then we all listened. And then we investigated and found his screwed up credentials, thus discrediting him, and then he said, "Screw you guys" and from the on he hasn't talked about it ever.

All on purpose.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by BlasteR
 




United States Department of Naval Intelligence

Yeah, unfortunately for Bob, no such department exists. A slight oversight on his part. Now, if we're talking about the Office of Naval Intelligence, that's a different story.


edit on 2-12-2012 by Cosmic911 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by PhoenixOD
 


All of your ideas about how to handle this situation are just poorly thought out. Plain and simple. And again, erasing his history was not an idea of how to discredit him. It was the first step in erasing him, which started before he came forward with his story.
In the real world, your methods of perpetrating a cover-up would leave you screwed within a week.



Originally posted by schuyler
All on purpose.

And all bringing people from around the world knocking on the doors of Area 51 and the government demanding answers. What could this possibly be covering up? Area 51 is a household name now, and people to this day make trips to the Black Mailbox.

It doesn't matter if someone is investigating the government and military searching for ETs, investigating the government is bad no matter what if there are secrets to be kept. This conspiracy had to have backfired in the face, which, for people to set up such an elaborate conspiracy-within-a-conspiracy, should have been the most obvious outcome.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by Damsel
 




All of your ideas about how to handle this situation are just poorly thought out. Plain and simple. And again, erasing his history was not an idea of how to discredit him. It was the first step in erasing him, which started before he came forward with his story.

In the real world, your methods of perpetrating a cover-up would leave you screwed within a week.


Not at all, if he had not even come forward with his story then there would be no reason to erase his history. There's nothing TO cover up if he had not said anything. He could have just died in any number of ways (heart attack,car crash, robbery or just good old disappear) and nothing would have been suspected like you suggest.

People have been killed for far less even after they have spilled their guts. If a powerful organization wanted him out the way he would be gone, story or no story. If far less to worry about than having him run around telling his story for the next 40 years.

Everybody dies one day..

edit on 2-12-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Not at all, if he had not even come forward with his story then there would be no reason to erase his history. There's nothing TO cover up if he had not said anything. He could have just died in any number of ways (heart attack,car crash, robbery or just good old disappear) and nothing would have been suspected like you suggest.

People have been killed for far less even after they have spilled their guts. If a powerful organization wanted him out the way he would be gone, story or no story. If far less to worry about than having him run around telling his story for the next 40 years.

edit on 2-12-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)


You're still not understanding.

- Bob Lazar works at highly secret area.
- Bob Lazar is "fired" from his job at highly secret area.
- Bob Lazar is deemed as a potential threat to spilling the secret (before he has said anything) due to unstable personal life, personal associations, among other things
- Bob Lazar is set to be "erased," starting with personal and educational history, then assassination.

Again, you aren't thinking about it like a government. You don't wait for someone to spill the secrets and then kill them. You kill them before they ever have the chance, if they seem likely to spill their guts. If they let the cat out of the bag before you can kill them, that's when you have to back off and pretend you have no idea what they're talking about. Killing them just confirms everything. When Bob Lazar came forward with his story, it made world-wide news. He even made it to mainstream media. That's not the guy you kill for spilling secrets.

He's already told basically everything he knows. Who cares now? It's done with. If you take action against him now, it just makes things look a thousand times worse. If you let him go, then there's plausible deniability, and with the protocol of ridiculing and debunking any little thing about aliens or UFOs, then plausible deniability is a guarantee.
edit on 12/2/2012 by Damsel because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by Damsel
reply to post by PhoenixOD
 



Originally posted by schuyler
All on purpose.

And all bringing people from around the world knocking on the doors of Area 51 and the government demanding answers. What could this possibly be covering up? Area 51 is a household name now, and people to this day make trips to the Black Mailbox.


Two possibilities:

1. There is a widespread school of thought within the UFO 'community' that can be seen throughout the literature that suggests there is a large contingent of "in the know" people who would like very much to get out the word that these sorts of things exist. We have seen this meme over and over again over the years.

2. There is also the "disinformation possibility" that people like Richard Doty brag about. The idea is to salt the UFO 'community' with partially true information plus a lot of fake stuff to throw off any legit investigation.

Area 51 IS a household name now, and it's partially BECAUSE of Lazar.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by Damsel
 


If he died tomorrow it wouldn't mean anything, he would just be another conspiracy theorist who died, it happens all the time and we all die eventually. But when conspiracy theorist die , people wonder for a while but it does not PROVE anything. But if what you are suggesting is true every day he is still alive there is the risk he might actually prove what he is saying is true or someone who knew him at school comes forward. Its just not plausible to take the risk of this happening verses having him killed.

Governments don't pussy foot about when it comes to wold class security secrets. If you are an immense threat to security and you have not said anything then you will just get taken out.

Because in the time it would take to 'erase' him from history and 'get' to everyone he ever knew then he could spill his guts and reveal the secrets before they managed to do this. They would not take the chance of that happening if nothing had been said at the time he was deemed a huge threat to security.

Unknown guy with no story dies ..No fuss , no further damage control needed.

edit on 2-12-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by PhoenixOD
Bob could just get someone from his class at school to confirm if he was there?

I cant help thinking it would have been far easier to just make the guy drop dead of a heart attack or disappear than go to all the trouble of erasing his history in the hop that this would discredit him. I mean far more important people have been killed for far less in the past.

Even if what he said was true they could have had him put in jail for breaking the official secret act or whatever its called in the US.

IMO Bob Lazar is either crazy or a liar, maybe even both.

edit on 2-12-2012 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)


If they put him in jail, if they killed him, this would only prove 100% absolutely that his story was true. This would actually have the reverse affect of what is desired. Instead of discrediting him, they would only solidify his credit.

Therefor, it makes no sense for them to do this, and all the sense in the world for them to erase his data.

As for him being vetted by a class mate -- that wouldn't prove anything and you know it. It would be hella easy for the government to put a stop to that. On the flip side, it would be hella easy for Lazar to just pay someone to vet him.

Either way, it's inconclusive, just like the government would want if his story was indeed true.

Which seems like the PERFECT way to handle this particular situation.

Sidenote; The government did try to put him in jail numerous times. What's even stranger is Lazar actually holds government contracts to this date for supplies out of United Nuclear.

What's also 3 times as strange, nobody from the government ever said his claims are unfounded or crazy or not true. They just ignore it outright, which is what I'd do if it was true. If the government addressed it, it would only bring more attention to the case in specific.

All of the above is logical.


Area 51 IS a household name now, and it's partially BECAUSE of Lazar.


QFT.

There is also the peculiar fact that the government officially said Area 51 doesn't exist. They kept saying this until it was photographed and outed, which if I'm not mistaken was AFTER Mr. Lazar.

So pray tell, how would someone make up something that actually exists?
edit on 2-12-2012 by Laykilla because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 05:57 PM
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Instead of all of us sitting behind our various devices that connect us to the Internet and AboveTopSecret trying to work out if Bob Lazar is telling the truth or not what really needs to happen is for Lazar to stray into the public spotlight again. I feel we have more questions than answers and if George Knapp could do another interview with Lazar where these questions can be answered under a lie detector test I would be all for it. I've read people discussing why Lazar hasn't been killed yet. According to him he very nearly was when he had his tyre shot out whilst driving but the government would never take out someone with such a high profile, especially when it's to do with a conspiracy theory.



posted on Dec, 2 2012 @ 06:05 PM
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reply to post by Laykilla
 


People who claim to know secrets die all the time, it doesnt PROVE anything. But if he was telling the truth there would always be the risk one day he could prove it or someone would back up his story.

He is going to die eventually, we all do. Tell me at that point will his death 100% prove he is telling the truth about area 51? At what age and in what manor can he die and the government not be blamed?

The simple fact is he is not a threat because his story is not true, no one will ever back it up.





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