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Don't want to come of as biased in this thread, just displaying some figures for those out there who have better reactions to visual aids instead of just words.
Originally posted by seabag
You can’t look at death tolls and determine who the aggressor is or who the “bad guy” is.
Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
It paints an image of a pretty one sided war if you ask me.
Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
I think the general consensus is that even if you dispute these figures, you simply cannot dispute the validity of the ratios!
Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
More palestinian civilians (women and children) have been injured/killed than Israel by far, thanks to F-16 carpet bombing from the worlds top ten military power.
Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
Whats of particular importance is also the number of UN resolutions violated on Israels behalf
Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
Don't want to come of as biased in this thread, just displaying some figures for those out there who have better reactions to visual aids instead of just words.
But you can certainly look and see if the response is proportionate to the offense.
ATS is (quite rightfully) full of threads where the police are lambasted for killing people where it wasnt warranted. You see it all the time in threads like "Cop shoots man for wearing blue t-shirt" or whatever.
In the same way, side X killing hundreds of people on side Y, for throwing rocks, should also be rightfully criticised.
Originally posted by alfa1
But you can certainly look and see if the response is proportionate to the offense.
ATS is (quite rightfully) full of threads where the police are lambasted for killing people where it wasnt warranted. You see it all the time in threads like "Cop shoots man for wearing blue t-shirt" or whatever.
Originally posted by maloy
Was the bombing of Tokyo, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki disproportionate response? Was the fire bombing of Dresden disproportionate response? ...
Okay so here is a hypothetical question for you...
I assume (maybe wrongly) that you are american, so imagine if one day the native americans decide they want all their land back. And say they get the backing of most of the world including the superpowers. So they roll in and bulldozer your home and all your families homes and put you all in a certain area then start putting restrictions on you...
Btw this goes for whatever country you're in really as it is only hypothetical...
Now under this context, would you be a terrorist for fighting back?
Originally posted by alfa1
Quite so.
Disproportionate responses that have been discussed to death elsewhere on the net, and mutitudes before now have indeed poured criticism on those examples you mention
Judging which side in a war is right or wrong is never as easy as looking at statistics. If you really want to judge sides in this conflict look at who initiated the conflict the majority of the time, and what the stated and implied goals of each side were.
More palestinian civilians (women and children) have been injured/killed than Israel by far, thanks to F-16 carpet bombing from the worlds top ten military power.
Whats of particular importance is also the number of UN resolutions violated on Israels behalf
Visual aids are highly prone to bias. I can conjure up enough visual aids to show that Pol Pot was a freaking saint, and to convince any half-wit of my point of view.
I’m not going to debate who was there first; Palestinians or Jews. There is enough reference material out there to know whose land it rightfully is…there is no historical basis for Palestine. What language do Palestinians speak? I’m not going there tonight….sorry!
No…but that’s not the case here and YES I'm an American. Look, regardless whose land you (and they) think it is, indiscriminately firing rockets DAILY into civilian targets is provocative, disgraceful, and terroristic! If they want a fight then declare war and fire at military targets rather than children. Do you agree?
I don't think you get the point... The reason I used america was because we all know american indians are the "rightful" owners of the land... But that was hundreds of years ago... You can't just kick up a fuss and demand it back hundreds of years later! So even if isreal are the "rightful" owners they can't just go get it back when they feel like it.
What do you mean no? How is this not the same as the american indians demanding their land back?
And taking it by force and destroying your homes... Do you deny isreal has done these things? Do you really think palestine can compete in a out and out war? Come on now be reasonable... Are you saying that because they don't have the same military might they should just shut up and take it up the ass?
Should they fire at civilians? Of course not but their weaponry is not as accurate... They have to deal with what they have, right?
Imagine it the scenario I presented that you also had very little firepower.
I mean it is like your saying the one with the most guns has to be right...
Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
Well your theory may stand correct if were talking about one particular war as a single event
Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
Everytime combatants from each side (palestine vs israel) have met,, the outcome has always been the same with palestine carrying the majority of civilians deaths ( women and children)
Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
i think thats a very strong pattern, if that doesnt show a one side war than i have no idea on earth what could possibly convince you otherwise. seriously.
Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
Well you are kind of digging yourself a hole here my friend, because if we get into equipment, munitions and capabilities.....its truly unfair that israel have the ability to target hamas leaders with ease using guided missiles......the ability to cut power and communications (even internet) to the entire gaza region..which is inhumane i mean dont the media get a chance to do some reporting, or civilians to communicate with loved ones outside of gaza?.
Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
yet palestine only has unguided missiles because they have no other means to defend themselves against such adversity and sophisticated weaponry
Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
......you cant blame them for being desperate they are only human....
Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
so to summarise, Israel can strike a severe blow using a multiude of tactical advantages whilst at the same time preventing any blowback/ deflecting most of the rockets coming in from gaza......unfair if you ask me.
Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
what about the border lines of 1967 that israel have breached?
Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
These are numbers, and numbers pose mathematical proof......theres no bias when it comes to mathematical numbers trust me.
Agreements were made…the lines were drawn. If Indians were firing rockets into Texas you can bet your arse there would be a disproportionate response.
Because it’s not their land…it belongs to the Israelis.
That’s how war works! They were given their land and its over…live in it and stop firing rockets!
Give me a break!! Do you know the definition of terrorism???
In this case the one with the most guns HAPPENS TO BE RIGHT….IMO of course. To the victor goes the spoils! Sucks to lose!!
Combatants from either side - 100
Innocent civilians on either side - 0