Palestine vs Israel - The Scoreboard

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posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by mee30
 



So let me ask again... Just say for instance that the american indians went to russia and china and asked for their help... They agreed and so did a load of other countries and america was defeated... Now the ones left are put into a small area of america and because you dare fight back you are caged in and you have restrictions on what you can have and who can aid you etc... So the american indians are the isreales and you are the Palestinians... You are firing rockets over and whatever else you have, are you a terrorist?


As I stated….NO….but this isn’t the case. Palestinians haven’t been abandoned and left to fend for themselves!! Who do you think is backing them monetarily, militarily, and diplomatically?

Poor analogy!



Hundreds of years ago! Just like the american indians owned america hundreds of years ago! I think you will deny this fact till the end...


You are correct…so what?



HA HA yeah I'm sure you would be saying that if the same happened to your country! I mean now they got given land? I guess the isreales are generous huh? lol...


S happens…

Yes, I’d be pissed and fight but that doesn’t change the reality that to the victor goes the spoils. The land never belonged to the Palestinians.



What does that have to do with it? They are defending their land... They are the ones that had lived there for hundreds of years! They have every right to fight and you would do just the same even if you will never admit it...


…because terrorists kill women and children to get their point across - much like the ultra-Mulsim Palistinian radicals who indiscriminately fire rockets across the border. They are firing rockets from their land into land that is not theirs!


LOL Really, that is a crazy philosophy... So when the jews mention the holocaust do you say to them that it sucks to lose? You will not be swayed or listen to reason so our convo ends here... Have a nice day...


It ends when I’m done talking!


Life is a hard reality. Fortunately for the Israelis they had better allies than the Palestinians. Maybe that had to do with the fact that they are the rightful displaced owners of that land????

edit on 21-11-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 09:22 PM
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Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
Maloy can i remind you that this thread is about numbers, assocciated with israel-gaza.

No need to derail the thread and go into an endless array of topics surrounding other areas of the middle east, now i believe it is you who are the one being biased and using your views of other events to manipulate this topic on your favour.

At least keep the information subject to both parties in this topic palestine and gaza.



Those "other areas" in the Middle East, involve most of the same parties playing the same game - puppet masters if you will. You may not see their relevance, but I do. Israel-Gaza is not in a vacuum by themselves. There is a movement throughout the Middle East, a disturbance of sorts, and Hamas' action in the last four months are directly related to it. The Muslim Brotherhood coming to power in Egypt, and being involved in Syria, impacted Hamas and their actions. New potential allies are up for grabs, and Hamas chose this time to test the field on purpose.



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by maloy
 





Not really. It stands correct if you tally-up the events since 1947.


Any proof to back that claim up, or just your opinion?




Again that proves absolutely nothing, except perhaps that it is Israel's main priority to protect its people.


Actually it does prove a lot, you cant just dismiss that kind of data completely, your methods of deduction have no logic in that case, and your opinions are just based on hot air at the moment.....

Protecting people can take many forms, hamas/ palestine are simply making do with the situation at a disadvantage, you can take sides all you want on this issue, but it will turn into an endless conversation.




Statistics convince me of only one thing - you can spin them to support whichever side you wish.


In your case, you have done just that. weldone. im glad you have convinced yourself that the figures mean nothing.



Oh the media seems to be communicating from Gaza easily enough. Don't you worry about them - that dog will always find its bone. As far as it being unfair that Israel has the capability - Palestinians and their Arab brotheren had far greater military capability than Israel in 1948. What did they do with it? Try to destroy any trace of a Jewish state and people. Needless to say how bad they failed. If Israel wanted to destroy the Palestinian state and people today, it could do so in several minutes. In fact it could do so since about 1970. And over 40 years later, here we are, and Palestinians are still there.


Well both sides should get their views accross in the media at least dont you think? i dont see palestine cutting off the internet in jerusalem, because they dont have that capability.

' that dog will find its bone'. that comes accross as very patronizing to say the least sir, i sincerely hope you can show some dignity in this matter, as you make it seem as if palestine are beneath israeli citizens? both sides have good and bad people lets not resort to stereotyping.




Actually I can. They are humans who don't give a **** about their own people to achieve political ends. It is not my concern how desperate they are. If you care about killing the opponent more than you care about the life of your own people, well then you can't really talk about peace can you?


They are humans correct, and they do care about their own, they simply dont have defence against the 9th most powerfull military in the world, and its extremely arrogant of you to say such a thing when you know palestine is at a strategic military disadvantage. Israel make many 'technical errors' in their bombardment that just goes to show how much they give a **** about genocide.





Don't start sh*t you can't handle if you ask me. Screw fairness, its about survival and Darwinism.


Really? that a very intelligent comment right there. who said palestine started it? i dont think people pick on enemies that are bigger than them for no reason? what planet do you live on? DC comics?

prove to me palestine started this entire conflict from the start? offcourse if your memory can go back futher than 1 month???

wont bother replying to the rest of your post, they are highly opinionated. Fact - israel in in breach of the 1967 treaty.....another fact - they continue to steal palestinian land.......another fact - Israel refuse to obey UN calls to stop making illegal settlements.....another fact - palestine is unable to seek UN recognition.....its unfair in many ways but fact is.....palestine is the victim here.....Israel is the aggressor based on these facts.



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by maloy
 


Sorry but you're entire theory is illogical, and makes no sense?

I think its Israel that is testing the new ground with egypts muslim brotherhood and its ties with Hamas, perhaps looking to see how involved egypt will get. Hamas know full well of Israels capabilities. Israel have the worlds superpower on their side. They supply Israel with their weaponry and armaments as well as its Iron dome .

Like said Hamas doesnt need to test anything against Israel, they have nada. they realise they are outgunned and outclassed, but they still try to protect their land and their people. You might think they are using them as human shields, but Israel is none the wise and shoot anyway.....

So lets summarise.....Israel kill thousands of civilians and steal land ....and attempt to push the people of gaza into sinai ....? genocide anyone?



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 09:30 PM
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edit on 21-11-2012 by ISeekTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 09:36 PM
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What is it?
The heat?The dryness?The arid wastelands?
WTF about the whole godam middle east is it, that makes EVERYBODY want to ethnically cleanse everyone else?
The newness of all of this wore off three thousand years ago!
Three thousand!
And we are still taking sides in a fight that nobody is REALLY interested in....
The Shias hate the Sunnis,
They kill em when they can,
The Sunnis hate the Shias
Because of some Imam?
All the little tribes and sects
Know who they have to kill off next.....
Though they all would like to To send to hell
One little nation called Israel....
The whole insanity brings one to tears
cause they been like this three thousand years



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 09:38 PM
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Originally posted by maloy
As far as it being unfair that Israel has the capability - Palestinians and their Arab brotheren had far greater military capability than Israel in 1948.



Like I said in the other thread, always an attempt to paint Israel as the good guy by not going back to the origin of the dispute.

Can you think of any reason whatsoever that the Palestinians might have been angry?
Say, for example, the unilateral declaration that one group of people had the sole right to that previously shared part of the world?



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by stirling
 


A lot has happened in those three thousand years, one things for sure though....Land in the middle east COST a lot more than anywhere else in the world.....

People will die for land in the thousands, and Israel is willing to beat the top score everytime
edit on 21-11-2012 by ISeekTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
reply to post by maloy
 





Not really. It stands correct if you tally-up the events since 1947.


Any proof to back that claim up, or just your opinion?


Feel free to dispute any of these if you want to get into historical discussion, but here is a summary of main events:

1948 - the Arab side initiated the conflict hours after Israel is declared a state.

1956 - Israel initiates the fighting, but relinquishes the territory it got despite winning.

1967 - Arab forces mobilize first, but Israel initiates the first strike by surprise.

1973 - Arab sides initiates the fighting.

1982 - Palestinian cross-border attacks initiate the first Lebanon war leading to Israel's incursion.

1987 - Murder by Palestinians initiates the first Intifada.

2000 - Second Intifada is initiated equally by both sides as violance escalates in steps.

2006 - Gaza-Israel conflict starts with Incursion by Hamas and kidnapping of an Israeli soldier.

2006 - Second Lebanon War starts after a Hezbolah incursion into Israel and kidnapping of an Israeli soldier.

2008 - Hamas rocket attacks over many months lead to operation Cast Lead.

2012 - Again, Hamas rocket attacks over many months lead to the current conflict.






Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
Protecting people can take many forms, hamas/ palestine are simply making do with the situation at a disadvantage, you can take sides all you want on this issue, but it will turn into an endless conversation.


Again - explain how Hamas is protecting the Palestinians when they fire rockets at Isralian cities?



Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
Well both sides should get their views accross in the media at least dont you think? i dont see palestine cutting off the internet in jerusalem, because they dont have that capability.


And yet pro-Palestinian hackers have the capability to attack hunders of Israli websites. The mass media bias is showing too - and they are not exactly pro-Israel.



Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
that dog will find its bone'. that comes accross as very patronizing to say the least sir, i sincerely hope you can show some dignity in this matter, as you make it seem as if palestine are beneath israeli citizens?


I am talking about the mass media. They are over this conflict like a fly over dung. No one can say Palestinians are not getting enough media attention.



Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
They are humans correct, and they do care about their own, they simply dont have defence against the 9th most powerfull military in the world, and its extremely arrogant of you to say such a thing when you know palestine is at a strategic military disadvantage.


If they are at a strategic military disadvantage, then why did they start launching rocket attacks weeks before Israel took any action. What was Israel doing in late October/early Novembet, that Hamas found a need to launch rockets all of the sudden?



Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
Israel make many 'technical errors' in their bombardment that just goes to show how much they give a **** about genocide.


Woah there - big words. Genocide? Are you sure you want to call this a genocide? Are you sure you looked at definition of that term recently?



Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
prove to me palestine started this entire conflict from the start? offcourse if your memory can go back futher than 1 month???


Here you go. It's wiki, but the sources are all there.

en.wikipedia.org...

Looking at just this year, Hamas launched hundreds of rockets since January 1st, before the current operation. What in your opinion caused them to launch those attacks? When did Israel's action start?




Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
wont bother replying to the rest of your post, they are highly opinionated.


And you are a pillar of unbiased thought!!!!



Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
Fact - israel in in breach of the 1967 treaty.....another fact - they continue to steal palestinian land.......another fact - Israel refuse to obey UN calls to stop making illegal settlements.....another fact - palestine is unable to seek UN recognition.....its unfair in many ways but fact is.....palestine is the victim here.....Israel is the aggressor based on these facts.


Those aren't facts, they are opinions. And you call me opinionated?



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by maloy
 




I am talking about the mass media. They are over this conflict like a fly over dung. No one can say Palestinians are not getting enough media attention.


Really? thats laughable to say the least!

MSM are just as biased as you, but i believe you take the cake....

Heres a video showing what it takes to get some aid into palestine, after Israels onslaught of genocide.



Really, i dont think you have anything constructive to add to this thread except deny the figures, and continue to paint Israel as saints defending themselves, with palestine as a whole according to your posts not giving a **** and just shooting rockets at the bigger person.....because they are terrorists right? Sure

Good luck with your attitude, luckily ATS is not full of half wits like you mentioned before they will be able to judge for themselves whos the victim and whos the aggressor.

I bet you wont even watch the video lol
edit on 21-11-2012 by ISeekTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
Really, i dont think you have anything constructive to add to this thread except deny the figures


In that case, I don't think this is a constructive thread to begin with. Now what?



Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
and continue to paint Israel as saints defending themselves


I never said that. I implied that they are not the demons they are painted to be. Israel does what it needs to do to protect its people - saint or not. Hamas does not do what it needs to protect its people. That is all.



Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
with palestine as a whole according to your posts not giving a **** and just shooting rockets at the bigger person.....because they are terrorists right? Sure


No, not Palestine as a whole. Hamas and other militant elements. Most of Palestine is quite and wants to go about its business.



Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
Good luck with your attitude


Likewise.



Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
I bet you wont even watch the video lol


Why? Is there something in it I haven't seen or heard?



posted on Nov, 21 2012 @ 10:29 PM
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reply to post by maloy
 





In that case, I don't think this is a constructive thread to begin with. Now what?


Well i think you know, now what
, thanks for the replies though, i had no idea Pro-israeli where this aggressive when faced with statistics. Just trying to get the facts out there mate.




Why? Is there something in it I haven't seen or heard?


You should take a look at the video if your interested, even the majority of youtube likes the content


So hide from it all you like.
edit on 21-11-2012 by ISeekTruth101 because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-11-2012 by ISeekTruth101 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 04:27 AM
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i just want to know wheres the option to give my tax dollars to palestine instead of israel?



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 04:38 AM
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Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
furthermore i tried my upmost not to take sides.


Then why did you post lies like "F-16 carpet bombing "

Just where has Israel done that?


I do seek truth,


yet you post lies.... please explain.



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 05:42 AM
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I think it's funny when people claim of imbalanced retaliation by Israel when Hamas is launching pretty much everything it has while Israel uses guided bombs and more or less using ammunition that compared with other things they have, it barely touches the surface.

If Hamas had anything larger than what they do they won't hesitate to use it. Seeing as they don't even recognize Israel's right to exist (it's right in their charters) it shouldn't be such a hassle reaching that conclusion.

Furthermore, it's mind numbingly odd that people seem to forget where Hamas operates from. When you operate from within civilian population you guarantee that Civilian will be killed - specially when 'operating from within civilian population' means shooting from neighborhoods, using completely civilian homes as ammo stocks and hidings etc.
I can't see where Israel is at fault when Hamas shoots from an apartment that houses a civilian family and Israel strikes back.

If you truly wished to remain neutral and truly are a 'truth seeker' as your handle suggest, you'd take into consideration the efforts of either side to avoid civilian casualties.
Israel: Using guided bombs that cause minimum surrounding damage, dropping leaflets warning people where and when are the coming airstrikes are going to be held, never operating from civilian population.
Hamas: Investing their entire efforts in Civilian casualties, using blind rockets, operating from civilian population.

Meh I don't even know what I bother 'cause looking at your replied to that guy, you're clearly not out to present any kind of truth but only to moan at Israel.
I'm positive that even if Israel would've retaliate with the exact same method as Hamas does - unguided rockets into civilian population on purpose, you'd still be whining.

If Israel truly wanted to inflict heavy damage it could've used not more than 5 bombing runs to make a crater out of Gaza.



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 07:17 AM
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I notice there isnt a column for people strapping explosives on themselves and blowing up a bus. Palistinians arent totally innocent. Be objective please.



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 08:01 AM
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Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by ISeekTruth101
 



Don't want to come of as biased in this thread, just displaying some figures for those out there who have better reactions to visual aids instead of just words.


NO….not at all!


Look, personally I don’t feel bad for a group of people who sponsor and carry out terrorist attacks. You can’t look at death tolls and determine who the aggressor is or who the “bad guy” is. Maybe if the (so-called) Palestinian people would stop supporting Muslim violence against innocent people in Israel they wouldn’t receive so many casualties.

Your name suggests that you "seek the truth" but you're pretending as though Palestine is an innocent victim, which is totally ridiculous.


YOU are the one who is wrong on this point. You are assuming all Palestinians support violence against Israel, or Hamas. This is false, and therefore your argument is invalid.



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 08:11 AM
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reply to post by IsraeliGuy
 


Its a tough comparison, considering one side are just civilians blockaded from the most basic items

I guess we could give Hamas guided weapons, F-16s, an Iron Dome, a Navy, a few armored Divisions, and a couple sattelites and see which side is more humane with their use
edit on 22-11-2012 by GeneralMishka because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 08:41 AM
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If Palestine wanted peace, they would discourage the violence on their end. Escalating things out of pride and anger will only make the other side respond in kind.

Israel may have plenty on the score board against it, but so does Palestine. I don't trust statistics since they can be manipulated. Israel may have a huge propaganda industry, but so does, Iran, Hamas, and many others like the joint venture of jerks we know of as the Muslim brotherhood. I wouldn't trust any information that dehumanizes either side and makes it easy to hate one based on the BS facts that are ALWAYS misrepresented.

I say let them figure it out. Why listen to Israeli propaganda you say, fine. True, why do something dumb like that. On the same token WHY LISTEN TO OTHER propaganda being disseminated by TERRORISTS! who would gladly see your home nations fall?

Are you retarded? Stay out of it and stop supporting ANY propaganda. Israelis are human, of course they mess up sometimes. Why is it now "cool" to hate Israel, A WHOLE COUNTRY, based on the actions of its government?

That IS what is happening. "they are Zionists", "Israel should fall", "we should stop supporting Israel".

Well if we did stop supporting Israel you know what we would be risking? An ally failing, but more importantly a country of civilians that would be slaughtered. Islam wouldn't make peace and you know that. It is a religiously fueled extermination on the agenda for them.

You know what else would happen? A place that gives us intelligence and support against OUR enemies would fail. A place that knows who we are dealing with over there and that gives a place to assert our influence so the backwards and violent culture doesn't spill onto our shores like it has been lately would cease to exist.

You think we can just leave the world's oil supply to fall into the hands of radicals out of some naive notion of idealism? NO, our entire global civilization depends on the oil flowing without interruption. If it does not, the lights go off and it's the dark ages again. F that. They have to play ball because it is not just the west that needs stability in the global supply of oil. It is the world.

So we are in the ME doing that , and low and behold, we have an ally over there. What do you say we should do? Let his country be over run? Are you a dumb ass? Then what, ask politely for the oil to flow? Ask politely and with respect for them not to try and ruin our countries?

No, they resist and try to take control for themselves, declare war on our very way of life, and then play the victim card? Too late. War sucks, but it sucks more for the guy losing. If they want peace and do not dream of burning American and Israeli cadavers over cheers and jubilation, then surrender the weapons, ALL OF THEM, and live a life of peace. You don't get to dictate terms. Surrender. End of story.

They can't have their complete freedom because their natural resources are needed for CIVILIZATION. They would try and hold greater power over the worlds affairs. That cannot be allowed since they are too radical and violent. They still support laws and a culture from centuries ago. To the T. So no. sorry. We tried that and were not convinced so we gladly progressed into the future. Your "glory days" have passed. You need to compromise. The AK47 wont convince us. It will only prove that you cannot be trusted.

It is like if the only factory for light bulbs in the whole world was there and only there. You don't get to control that by yourself. Everyone who likes having lights will object to you having that much power. You compromise, OR resist and get your ass handed to you by everyone else.

Israel may be wrong in areas, but Hamas, and the Muslim brotherhood, and everyone else advocating the destruction of Israel in one way or the other, is just as wrong and insane as the "EVIL ZIONISTS" they condemn.

If Palestine stopped trying to kill Israelis, the peace would have won. You can't be Gandhi and a F-ing murderer. Either you use non violence and advocate peace, or you kill people and try to take it by force. You don't get to play the "innocent victim" and kill your enemies.

edit on 22-11-2012 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2012 @ 10:08 AM
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reply to post by hellobruce
 


I do not post lies, if you cant handle the truth, dont post accusations.

I mentioned F-16 carpet bombing because ive seen the videos on youtube and media outlets where entire structures are bombed to kingdom come in densley civilian populations. Speaking of media outlets, Israel even bombed a media centre in the gaza strip? WTH.....that raises suspicions to say the least?

I mean the worlds second best airforce accidently destroyed a media centre that was trying to document the genocide inside gaza.... rt.com...

Several news channels were affected as well as Russia Today. So i say carpet bombing because i dont see the prescision!

Secondly, civilian deaths always ensue the supposed prescision striking of Israeli jet strikes, on a grand scale......just look at the figures sir! they dont lie.





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