Palestine vs Israel - The Scoreboard

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
Bravo, you just justified every single terrorist attack against Israel by Palestinians.

Hamas does not need much to justify their terrorist attacks. That goes for most terrorist organizations around the world.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
Besides the fact that your examples are countries who were, in fact, military powers. Care to point out Gaza's military?

They don't need jet fighters and tanks to represent a major threat. Explosives, rockets, mortars, booby traps, and small arms are enough for them to achieve their goals.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
Daily rocket barrages?

...

home made bottle rockets

You underestimate what a grad rocket could do. The only reason Israel had low casualties is the successful deployment of Iron Dome.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
One nation is occupying the other.

Israel left Gaza years ago and dismantled all settlements. What exactly are they occupying?

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
So, lets be clear. If you were a palestinian, you would have every right to fight against the agression and crimes being done there, the stealing of land, the illegal settlements.

And Israel would have every right to prevent me from killing Israeli civilians. And there are no illegal settlements in Gaza.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
So maybe you should try to fully grasp your own opinion before you actually justify what you are here to argue against.

I have full grasp of my opinion thank you very much.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
You immediate support terrorism if you don't support ISrael.

Not true. You support terrorism directly or indirectly if you justify the rocket attacks by Hamas.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
Only one of those groups is equipped with state of the art military gear and claims to be the most moral army in the world.

Israel never claims to be the most moral army in the world.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
The attacks against ISrael are crimes, and ISrael has every right to defend itself. But you have to consider the reason for the attacks.

So what is the reason for Hamas' indiscriminate rocket attacks against Israeli cities in October and early November? What were they trying to accomplish exactly, and how would that aid the Palestinian cause?

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
Sure if we listen to half the people here, it's because every brown person just hates Jews and wants them all dead.

Wow, don't make this about race buddy - playing the race card here only implies ignorance. Most Palestinians are semites, just like the Jews. Palestinians are not exactly "brown", and made Israelis are in fact "brown" (Ethiopians Jews, Yemeni Jews).

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
anyone demanding Israel dissolve is a moron.

They are not a moron, just unrealistic and unpragmatic. Israel is here to stay. You can yell out your demands all you want. The minute you pick up a gun and try to act on your intentions to dissolve Israel, you will be rightly labeled as an enemy and eliminated. Pure and simply - that is how things work.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
Anyone thinking you can fight terror by creating terror, that person is a mad man.

How do you fight terror? By giving into demands and showering the opposing side with goodwill?

The international community considers the settlements in occupied territory to be illegal.[8] Israeli neighborhoods in East Jerusalem and communities in the Golan Heights, areas which have been annexed by Israel, are also considered settlements by the international community, which does not recognise Israel's annexations of these territories.[9] The United Nations has repeatedly upheld the view that Israel's construction of settlements constitutes violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention.[10][11] The International Court of Justice[12] also says these settlements are illegal,[13][14] and no foreign government supports Israel's settlements.[15] In April 2012, UN secretary general Ban Ki-Moon, in response to moves by Israel to legalise Israeli outposts, reiterated that all settlement activity is illegal, and "runs contrary to Israel's obligations under the Road Map and repeated Quartet calls for the parties to refrain from provocations."[16] Similar criticism was advanced by the EU and the US.[17][18]

source en.wikipedia.org...

check the bibliohraphy for credibility of cited sources in the content.

Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
- I Highly doubt you have been to west bank

I have been to Bethlehem and Ramallah region. I have traveled from Jerusalem to the Dead Sea through the West Bank. And I really could not care less about your doubts.

Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
, and i highly doubt you have many palestinian friends.

Not many, but a few. The family I know run a small gift shop in the Arab quarter of Old City in Jerusalem.

Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
- I have a right to voice my doubts.

I never said you didn't. I just don't care about them.

Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
- Although the above are not a facts, i did urge you very early in the thread to stay on topic and discuss facts and figures, instead you continued to derail the topic further by talking about your past experiences..

And I urge you to stop urging me. I discuss what I feel is relevent. I hardly care about what you feel is relevent. Report me to ATS admin's if you think I strayed far off topic.

Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
prompting me to reply, and entertain your theories for the sake argument.

Oh no, I have been a bad boy. Have I no shame?

Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
- Wont be wasting my time anymore..

Wow, thats a relief.

The international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories illegal under international law,[1][2][3][4][5] but Israel maintains that they are consistent with international law[6] because it does not agree that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the territories occupied in the 1967 Six-Day War, due to lack of a legal sovereign of these territories.[7] The United Nations Security Council, the United Nations General Assembly, the International Committee of the Red Cross, the International Court of Justice and the High Contracting Parties to the Convention have all affirmed that the Fourth Geneva Convention does apply.[8][9]

source en.wikipedia.org...

check citations

Israel to expand illegal settlements in occupied Palestine

Source digitaljournal.com...

reply to post by tothetenthpower


well i agree with 60% of your post

I would like to see a two state solution, but its not going to happen and its unrealistic in 2012.

I hope both sides can have a ceasefire, but it wont last.

I admit there have been terrorist activity on both sides.

But Hamas was elected by the palestinian people by majority vote, so they are the chosen governement.

reply to post by ISeekTruth101


I will admit that it appears both sides are committing atrocities. But I refuse to pick a side, I think we should look at the region as a WHOLE and tell the warring factions to stop.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
with home made bottle rockets

If Hamas terrorists were using bottle rockets, Israel was just throwing firecrackers

, but none the less, they were attacks against civilians designed to instill TERROR)

Very true, and that is why Israel was doing, defending itself against these terror attacks on their civilians.

and the occupation of gaza.

What occupation of Gaza? Why make false claims like that?

In my opinion...

Jews - have lived all over the world in "peace" with other cultures for centuries.

Israel - is an illegal "state" given to the Zionists by the UN. (Proof is the link at the end of post)

Zionism - is a disease that must be cured. (Zion Protocols & Zion on Wiki)

(((in my opinion))) ...with that ^^ being said, it is time to separate the 3 equations and help the Jewish people see the lies & decent that has been thrust upon them, much in the same manner it has it has been thrust upon the USA, Canada, UK etc.

The word "terrorist" is a marketing tool employed by IDF media relations experts to demonize ANYONE who opposes the threat of Zionism. Half of the NORTH AMERICAN citizens are labelled "terrorists" by these TRAITORS to Humanity.

Help free the Jewish people from this Zionist deception!!

...end of my personal opinion....

The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict

Booklet Published by Jews for Justice in the Middle East
www.ifamericansknew.org...

reply to post by infowarrior9970


Good post, its important not to hate on all israelis or blame israel as a whole.

I hope one day we can be rid of zionism before it causes irreversible damage to the world.

reply to post by ISeekTruth101


I've posted this film on a cpl of threads (usually part 1 - which goes back to 1948) This is part 4 and focuses more on Israel in the present.



All 4 episodes available at Channel 4 - The Promise

It would also seem, from this June 2012 Congressional Research Service report that ultimately the US government also wants a two state solution.

Because of congressional concerns that, among other things, funds might be diverted to
Palestinian terrorist groups, U.S. aid is subject to a host of vetting and oversight requirements and
legislative restrictions. U.S. assistance to the Palestinians is given alongside assistance from other
international donors, and U.S. policymakers routinely call for greater or more timely assistance
from Arab governments in line with pledges those governments make. Even if the immediate objectives of U.S. assistance programs for the Palestinians are met, lack of progress toward a politically legitimate and peaceful two-state solution could undermine the utility of U.S. aid in helping the Palestinians become more cohesive, stable, and self-reliant over the long term.

Originally posted by infowarrior9970
Zionism - is a disease that must be cured. (Zion Protocols & Zion on Wiki)

Obviously you never even bothered to read the links you gave, as if you had read them you would have seen

is an antisemitic hoax purporting to describe a Jewish plan for global domination

So it is just a hoax.... but you knew that and claimed it was true....

Everytime combatants from each side (palestine vs israel) have met,, the outcome has always been the same with palestine carrying the majority of civilians deaths ( women and children)

reply to post by ISeekTruth101


The Palestinians would have a lot less civilian casualties if they didn't place their rockets and mortars in or near civilian homes and schools, Man-up fight to protect your women and children rather than trying to hide behind them.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by ISeekTruth101

 

Don't want to come of as biased in this thread, just displaying some figures for those out there who have better reactions to visual aids instead of just words.

NO….not at all!

Look, personally I don’t feel bad for a group of people who sponsor and carry out terrorist attacks. You can’t look at death tolls and determine who the aggressor is or who the “bad guy” is. Maybe if the (so-called) Palestinian people would stop supporting Muslim violence against innocent people in Israel they wouldn’t receive so many casualties.

Your name suggests that you "seek the truth" but you're pretending as though Palestine is an innocent victim, which is totally ridiculous.

ATS has intelligent life afterall.

Originally posted by ISeekTruth101
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

But Hamas was elected by the palestinian people by majority vote, so they are the chosen governement.

edit on 22-11-2012 by ISeekTruth101 because: (no reason given)

Which is proof the Palestinians do not want peace. They elected a terrorist group to represent them. When they shun terrorism and violence and seek peace maybe things will change. Not to say Israel is perfect, but at the present moment everything they do is justified. When the Palestinians change that will have to be revisited.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Which is proof the Palestinians do not want peace. They elected a terrorist group to represent them.

Really? wow.

So palestinian human beings dont want peace, they enjoy dying and they enjoy living in shelters with their power cut of at will and very little human resources?

What kind of human enjoys that?

SO your saying the MAJORITY of over 4 MILLION Human beings DONT want peace?

Your speaking on their behalf offcourse.

I am simpy speechless right now.

I cant believe someone would generalise so many people in 1 sentence.

truly a world record in generalisation and stereotyping.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Not to say Israel is perfect, but at the present moment everything they do is justified

Im sure they are justified sir, please do me a favour and scroll up, i posted some interesting information on israels continued illegal settlements that are in direct violation of the geneva convention.

Please tell me what your take on that is? because you clearly have such colourful answers.

I will always maintain that one dead person on either "side" is too many. I don't see sides when I look at humanity. I just see humanity fighting itself. That doesn't mean I ignore the political and cultural realities. But it does mean I view them as unfortunate impediments to our mutual humanity and unity. Just my personal belief/opinion. I respect everyone else's, however.

Peace.

I think a scoreboard trivialises human suffering and death, and over simplifies the complicated realities on the ground. None-the-less, the statistics are a very practical tool to reveal the truth in some aspects. The truth being, innocent people are being killed on both sides, but the Palestinians (both in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip - especially the Gaza Strip) are systematically being killed in what amounts to war crimes. Israel uses disproportionate force in response to violent resistance (essentially terrorism). However, more often than not, Israel kills children and if you look at the circumstances of the deaths of children in this latest round of fighting, you cannot blame it on Hamas' tactic of using human shields.

You can also remove the 1 Israeli in captivity. He was freed.