British Islamists to issue fatwa against shot Pakistani girl Malala

Okay moderators, now I am being rude.
Just...some of the viciousness, the hate-mongering hysteria on this thread...for something that is most likely a lie, or at the very least, is complete hypocrisy considering how many people 'our' drones have killed in Pakistan, of which she could have easily been one and then we'd have never heard her name.

Anyway, I will decline from further comment.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by zroth

 

No one sin is greater. There is no room for an "oh they are worse" conversation.

Yes, there is? In fact, no two religions are equal in the abundance of extremists, both relative and absolute, nor in the danger they possess. "oh they are worse" conversation is bad only when used to excuse.

I'm sorry but conviction never ends with a question mark.

There is always equal extremism on every pole. High/Low, Black/White, Rich poor.. that is why it is extreme because of the contrast caused by the end of the spectrum from which it is observed.

Excuses is the common ground that we can build from. My original point is that no religious group should be judging another. There are countless examples of hypocrisy, executed under the guise of righteousness.

No sin is greater, free from sin cast the first stone, glass houses, etc;

reply to post by zroth

Excuses is the common ground that we can build from. My original point is that no religious group should be judging another. There are countless examples of hypocrisy, executed under the guise of righteousness.

I cannot agree. Mutual judgement is what allows us to contrast, question and ultimately harmonise our views, and this pushes humanity forward and together.

Even hypocrisy is preferable to staying silent.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

Right - so to prove they are not against education they support the shooting of this girl, and issue this medieval-style religious "shunning" against her?

If theyre not against educating women, why are women not being educated and being sent to college? Because they will see that Islam's Sharia Law is total bullsh*t when they get out into the world. Then there's the matter of honor murders which happens in Pakistan and other areas like Afghanistan and has even happened right in the U.S. which is horrifying.

reply to post by Maslo


Stereotyping, classification and generalization are a few of the reasons humanity is in this mess.

Judging is a case by case necessity. Judging with a blanketed approach is simply ignorant.

Originally posted by seabhac-rua
I've no idea why these people are allowed to have British passports?

As I understand it Labour wanted their votes, see how that backfired, they voted in George Galloway.
I hear some of them were born here but if they want "Islam for UK" I would deport them anyway.
Such big tough guys going after a little girl.

@ OP. One five letter word is not enough.

Originally posted by curiouscanadian777
Okay moderators, now I am being rude.
Just...some of the viciousness, the hate-mongering hysteria on this thread...for something that is most likely a lie, or at the very least, is complete hypocrisy considering how many people 'our' drones have killed in Pakistan, of which she could have easily been one and then we'd have never heard her name.

Anyway, I will decline from further comment.

I didn't read the thread yet, but I just turned on the news. Warsi was on there talking about it, so no, it doesn't look like its a lie.
My own post was not a blanket statement against all Muslims.

ETA. These people are targeting a child knowing she is a child and in the UK children are required by law to have an education.


I just came back to say I was wrong. I heard Warsi talking about Islamic groups and far right groups and assumed she was talking about this. She was talking about children though but thats for another thread that will be just like this one. Sorry for my mistake.

I would agree that any people who are thinking vile and violent thoughts of this brave young woman, are all doomed by thier own hand.

However, the quote from the article that the OP references, clearly says that they have no intention of taking up arms against her. I wonder which it actually is?

Furthermore, please people, be VERY careful to always speak correctly. Just as it is not true that all Christians believe that Darwin went to hell, neither is it true that all Muslims believe in violence as a means of achieving thier aims. Please be specific. Do not say things like muslims this, and muslims that. Not only is it a generalisation, and therefore automatically in error, but it smacks of bigotry to do so.

I understand this is a very emotive issue, but that does not mean that accuracy when speaking goes out of the window. That little girl IS a muslim, and she has chosen the path of peace. This proves, to me at least, that like my own faith, hers suffers from being hijacked by warmongers and murderers, despite the fact that this is NOT the heart of the faith she holds to.

I hope this smart young girl has a full recovery and leads women from the middle east in to a new future away from the "strict muslim /arab" men that control and destroy there lives.

reply to post by curiouscanadian777


I was hoping to keep out of this thread, let the facts speak for themselves and see what other's come up with - but.....

...some of the viciousness, the hate-mongering hysteria on this thread...

So attempting to kill a girl just because she wants to go to school and get an education isn't an act of viciousness and isn't hate-mongering?

for something that is most likely a lie,

Really?
Most likely?
Any real evidence to support this?

I'd suggest that whilst there is a slight chance that it is all a lie I think the overwhelming wealth of evidence suggests that the basic facts of this case are pretty much proven as fact - The Taliban attempted to kill a schoolgirl because she had spoken out against them and expressed her desire for an education.
This goes against their beliefs and they subsequently chose to admit that they were behind the attempt and they stated that if the opportunity arises they will try to muder her again.

These are FACTS.

I'm not saying for one minute that this attempt hasn't been seized upon and used and exploited for 'propoganda' purposes etc - and there is definately an element of hypocrisy involved when literally thousands of young children are being killed all over the globe in conflicts not of their doing and with little or no concern etc expressed by western governments etc.
But that doesn't excuse this act of barbarism and it doesn't lessen the appalling brutality shown by The Taliban and their uncompromising adherence and enforcement of an exceedingly repressive interpretation of Islam.

or at the very least, is complete hypocrisy considering how many people 'our' drones have killed in Pakistan,

I would never defend the killing of any innocent civilians and yes, there are aspects surrounding the conduct of the military campaign in Afghanistan and Pakistan that are totally unacceptable, but, and it's a big but, maybe if The Taliban weren't so keen to hide within the civilian population and deliberately use them as human shields knowing full well that they are endangering those civilians, then not quite so many innocent people would be getting killed.

And whilst we are talking of hypocrisy and manipulation etc please take a second to think on just how quick and eager The Taliban and their supporters are to use the media to sensationalise these killings.

of which she could have easily been one and then we'd have never heard her name.

Can't disagree with you there - but does that make it ok?

Anyway, I will decline from further comment.

Why?
I thought one of the primary drivers on this site is to discuss and debate in an informed and respectful manner?

reply to post by Kurokage

Just to point out something: Pakistanis are neither arab, nor is Pakistan in the Middle East. In fact, while I don't have the numbers at hand at this very moment (am on my mobile), most arab countries, even Saudi Arabia now with its all-women schools and colleges have a reasonably good female literacy rate, at least compared to other countries it the same level of development.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by curiouscanadian777

 

Anyway, I will decline from further comment.

Why?
I thought one of the primary drivers on this site is to discuss and debate in an informed and respectful manner?

Hey, thanks for the thoughtful comments.

I kind of freaked out there, I'd been following the Gaza monstrosity most of the night and morning, and I've just really reached my limit...With people who are too blind to see what they're supporting, what they're being manipulated into, repeatedly; and who think somehow that we're nobly 'bringing them freedom, democracy and equal rights!' and bombing their countries and families to smithereens; then label them terrorists when they don't take it lying down, act like THEY'RE the problem...And then seem to lack any comprehension about why these people might be hostile and hate us, want to hurt us, don't trust us, have the perception, certainty, that WE'RE the terrorists...And too #ing stupid to even know it...And our lying scumbag warmongering media...And our lying scumbag warmongering warprofiteering psychopathic leaders, double dealing and double crossing, siding with the 'freedom fighters' today, that will become tomorrows new enemy...And our soldiers being killed and committing suicide in record numbers...and on and on it goes...

Too much for my head today man, I shouldn't have even commented in the first place...And I really have no appetite for further discussion right now...Though I did have an interesting conversation with paperbackwriter...

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


They have truly lost their humanity ..after shooting her .. they still want to kill her ..?
We need to isolate the extremism gene..and destroy it ..that's the only way to get rid of this type of thinking ..too many crackpots around threatening innocent people..
Use genetics to wipe out these monsters ..

reply to post by curiouscanadian777


I can understand your anger and frustration and probably share some of your opinions - but to lump Gaza and Afghanistan together is really unfair.

Yes, 'we've' made some horrendous mistakes in Afghanistan, 'we' don't seem to have learnt anything from the appalling mess 'we' made of Iraq, but let's not forget that the vast majority of people in Afghanistan have no desire to live under a Taliban regime and it's brutal and repressive dictates.

Because innocent people are dying in Gaza it by no means excuses the brutalities committed by The Taliban - we should express our disgust at all such occurrences and not just selectively to support any given political etc viewpoint.

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by curiouscanadian777

 

I can understand your anger and frustration and probably share some of your opinions - but to lump Gaza and Afghanistan together is really unfair.

Yes, 'we've' made some horrendous mistakes in Afghanistan, 'we' don't seem to have learnt anything from the appalling mess 'we' made of Iraq, but let's not forget that the vast majority of people in Afghanistan have no desire to live under a Taliban regime and it's brutal and repressive dictates.

Because innocent people are dying in Gaza it by no means excuses the brutalities committed by The Taliban - we should express our disgust at all such occurrences and not just selectively to support any given political etc viewpoint.

Yes, I know. I went on an off topic rant there.

I think the reason I linked Afghanistan and Gaza is that I get the feeling that all these fanatical muslim-haters who are talking about shooting them in the street etc etc are not speaking to this particular issue only; I get the feeling they are looking at the Gazans in that context as it is horrifically playing out in front of us, y'know? And have no empathy or comprehension of just why they're angry and have every right to be.
And our humani-terrorists are going to put on this big 'peace-talk' charade and so so many people are believing the lies and doubletalk and are then cheerleaders for our own extremist actions, which they fail to perceive as such. Which in turn creates/fosters more extremists who feel justified, ad infinitum.

I don't support any of the extremist psychopaths, including our own. I feel equal disgust for all of them. We're angry and feel hatred toward all the wrong people for all the wrong reasons. And now we have ever increasing problems and ever more extremist govt actions at home, which conveniently helps to take our eyes off of a lot of the other stuff going on...

Anyway, end of rant. Sorry to derail your thread OP'er.

I recently came across a quote by Woody Harrelson that is apt here:

"The common man or woman, whether they are Israeli or Palestinian, Protestant or Catholic or Iraqi or American, the common man just wants to live in peace and justice in a clean environment. When we look around the world and we see that that is not the case, we know the will of the majority is not being listened to, that's the first sign that our system is broken."


Thanks man, the discussion was good after all...
(I do have to admit that I had written an even bigger rant, which I deleted, and so got it out of my system...lol)

Originally posted by happykat39
Only in Islam, the so called religion of peace, will you find such atrocious criminalizing of innocent victims.

Really? Tell that to all the child victims of African Christians with their 'witchcraft' obsession. I've made threads on this here on ATS in the past and it barely gets a look in.

Maybe it's because people would rather demonise the Muslim middle-eastern sky god desert religion rather than Christian middle-eastern sky god desert religion, I don't know.

reply to post by happykat39


Actually, her doing what she is makes her a traitor to their people. That's not so "innocent".

reply to post by MasonicFantom

Actually, her doing what she is makes her a traitor to their people. That's not so "innocent".

Err....how do you make that out?

Do you mean Pakistani people?
Or do you mean Muslim people?

And I honestly don't see how her wanting an education makes her a 'traitor' to either.

classic CIA plotting right there...
straight from CIA book of dirty secrets...
smells like incubator babies...

move along...nothing to see...

reply to post by Freeborn


They believe she's serving American interests in creating propaganda against her own people (which she is when she said she supports the US ARMY occupation in the entire region - a statement that has gone viral). So yes, that's basically being a traitor, if she did so with coercion or for reward (which seems likely given the history of our government and its ME activities). One thing is clear - it's propaganda. There's no other reason for this to be so widely discussed and THROWN in our faces. Education isn't even the point of this, that's just the heartstrings they're pulling because Americans always cry about equal rights (and it's yet another distraction from our own equal rights issues such as most of you being slaves to the Elite with the walls crumbling around you, but I digress). In Pakistan the girls of wealthy families get as good an education as boys of the same class. The poor ones are those who struggle (more so than the boy counterparts) but that's their culture and the girls learn other activities out of school that the boys don't.
OMG, there's African tribes where the men hunt and the women don't. Looks like a job for Imperialist Man!

And look..."NEW British based Islamic group"...really? It's like someone sat there thinking "how can we make this EVEN more effective to make people despise Pakistanis and Muslims in general? I know, let's say some evil Muslims are trying to punish her!, even though she was already shot (supposedly) and is only a little girl. Oh, delicious." But they couldn't find any real ones who care enough, so made some vague group.

It's easy to figure out propaganda when you know what to look for. Seems like this strategy certainly worked on the OP with his "what scum!" comment.

reply to post by Fr3bzY
Ye, clearly. I'm moving along already.