If God is in control - the only mission of life is to "Receive" if not, it is to "Give"...

reply to post by Itisnowagain


I'm not sure why I said "we". I noticed you didn't even use that word...

Oh well, "Why" does not matter, it just happened...

Rereading it, I think I understand what you mean by "Not separate from"...

Life is just happening, but we are not separate from it because we are receivers (observes) of it, so in that sense we are connected. I have this same understanding. Most people think "we" are a part of it, but "we" are only connected by being the receiver (observer) of it.

This is a post in reply to no one and to everyone. It is two simple questions to ask that
expose the flaw in the notion of the existence of an omniscient God and human freewill.


Does God know what you are going to do tomorrow?

Can you change that?

If you can change what God's knows will happen, then you have freewill and no omniscient God
If you can't change what God knows will happen, then you have no freewill.

That's as simply as I can put it.

reply to post by arpgme


"What does "leaves floating on an ocean" have to do with what I said about how "will" is formed? Nothing. "

Then why ask the question?

A99

Originally posted by rival
This is a post in reply to no one and to everyone. It is two simple questions to ask that
expose the flaw in the notion of the existence of an omniscient God and human freewill.


Does God know what you are going to do tomorrow?

Can you change that?

If you can change what God's knows will happen, then you have freewill and no omniscient God
If you can't change what God knows will happen, then you have no freewill.

That's as simply as I can put it.

Do you know what a caterpillar will do tomorrow? How long does a piece of string have to be for it to be called string?

Your questions are not simple, but, confused...

'God' knows every outcome of every situation...every outcome of every situation is dependant upon choice or circumstance (as the case may be)...situations dependant upon choice - are chosen - (despite the gurus on here who will tell you crap is just happening - wishy washy crap)...FREE WILL (in circumstances where the will is available to influence said decisions) collapse possibilities and probabilities (which are all known - before and after by god, or whatever you prefer to call it)...so yes...Source is aware of everything - omniscience...this does NOT discount FREE WILL...it does NOT equal predeterministic mechanisms...it is freedom to express FREE WILL in any way you see fit...positively or negatively...all bases are covered by it...it is inclusive in the extreme...it is freedom in the extreme...to wreak havok, to love, to suffer, to zone out, to complain, to question, to realise...all these options and many many more are available to you...look around you at what others choose...suicide bombing, philanthropy, dropping out...these things do NOT just happen...if you believe this you have become 'comfortably numb', and ignorance is your (and others') bliss

Why is this so hard for you to digest?...

A99

reply to post by akushla99


How can God know the outcome of every situation (and you have freewill)?
If he did then as soon as the big bang happened he could go back to sleep. The big bang could be said to be the 'first situation'. If the big bang was the beginning it would be like someone breaking in a snooker match, as soon as the white ball smashes into the red balls the end of the shot is determined, this being the case nothing can be changed.
You would be one of the balls set in motion and you would not beable to 'choose' another direction. Do the balls on a snooker table have freewill?

God does not know the future because God is presence and is never not present.
God is all seeing, all knowing and everpresent.

Originally posted by rival
This is a post in reply to no one and to everyone. It is two simple questions to ask that
expose the flaw in the notion of the existence of an omniscient God and human freewill.


Does God know what you are going to do tomorrow?

Can you change that?

If you can change what God's knows will happen, then you have freewill and no omniscient God
If you can't change what God knows will happen, then you have no freewill.

That's as simply as I can put it.

God knows nothing of tomorrow. God is where reality is. And reality is present.
It is humans who 'believe' in tomorrow, humans 'believe' in things they have never seen or heard. They worship images appearing in their minds. Humans fail to see with their eyes and fail to hear with their ears the glory of God which is appearing now - they live in the confines of the mind, they live in the past and the future (thoughts/beliefs) and miss life completely.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

I'm not sure why I said "we". I noticed you didn't even use that word...

Oh well, "Why" does not matter, it just happened...

Rereading it, I think I understand what you mean by "Not separate from"...

Life is just happening, but we are not separate from it because we are receivers (observes) of it, so in that sense we are connected. I have this same understanding. Most people think "we" are a part of it, but "we" are only connected by being the receiver (observer) of it.

You used the word 'we' because you believe in 'we'.
'We' is plural, you think there is more than one.

Life is one. This is one. You are not separate from the one. The one is doing what it does. The one is alive.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by akushla99

 

How can God know the outcome of every situation (and you have freewill)?
If he did then as soon as the big bang happened he could go back to sleep. The big bang could be said to be the 'first situation'. If the big bang was the beginning it would be like someone breaking in a snooker match, as soon as the white ball smashes into the red balls the end of the shot is determined, this being the case nothing can be changed.
You would be one of the balls set in motion and you would not beable to 'choose' another direction. Do the balls on a snooker table have freewill?

God does not know the future because God is presence and is never not present.
God is all seeing, all knowing and everpresent.

edit on 12-11-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Complete and utter tripe...
...snooker...really?!

A99

Originally posted by akushla99

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by akushla99

 

How can God know the outcome of every situation (and you have freewill)?
If he did then as soon as the big bang happened he could go back to sleep. The big bang could be said to be the 'first situation'. If the big bang was the beginning it would be like someone breaking in a snooker match, as soon as the white ball smashes into the red balls the end of the shot is determined, this being the case nothing can be changed.
You would be one of the balls set in motion and you would not beable to 'choose' another direction. Do the balls on a snooker table have freewill?

God does not know the future because God is presence and is never not present.
God is all seeing, all knowing and everpresent.

edit on 12-11-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Complete and utter tripe...
...snooker...really?!

A99

edit on 12-11-2012 by akushla99 because: (no reason given)

"How can God know the outcome of every situation (and you have freewill)?"

You obviously have no interest or comprehension of what I have written...or have not read it...

A99

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by akushla99

 

How can God know the outcome of every situation (and you have freewill)?
If he did then as soon as the big bang happened he could go back to sleep. The big bang could be said to be the 'first situation'. If the big bang was the beginning it would be like someone breaking in a snooker match, as soon as the white ball smashes into the red balls the end of the shot is determined, this being the case nothing can be changed.
You would be one of the balls set in motion and you would not beable to 'choose' another direction. Do the balls on a snooker table have freewill?

God does not know the future because God is presence and is never not present.
God is all seeing, all knowing and everpresent.

edit on 12-11-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

My friend, you can imagine yourself as a snooker ball...I do not...the comparison is irrelevant and has no meaning...

A99

reply to post by akushla99


'God' knows every outcome of every situation...every outcome of every situation is dependant upon choice or circumstance (as the case may be)...' Quote.

You stated the above^

What 'situation' was 'first' in your opinion?
There must be a 'first situation' for an outcome. When will the 'outcome' be complete?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by akushla99

 

'God' knows every outcome of every situation...every outcome of every situation is dependant upon choice or circumstance (as the case may be)...

You stated the above^

What 'situation' was 'first' in your opinion?
There must be a 'first situation' for an outcome. When will the 'outcome' be complete?

Who cares what came first...we are not discussing what we think came first...diversionary at best, and a poor attempt...

A99

reply to post by akushla99


You state that every situation has an outcome. But how can you determine a start to a situation or a finish?
I use an example of snooker balls for the purpose of examination. I state a start - white ball hitting red balls - i then state that the balls will keep going in the same direction until they stop (finish). The red balls have no 'choice'.

At what point is there any freewill?

Can you please tell me when you believe a 'situation' starts and finishes?
Can you give me an example?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by akushla99

 

You state that every situation has an outcome. But how can you determine a start or a finish?
I state a start - white ball hitting red balls - i then state that the balls will keep going in the same direction until they stop (finish). The red balls have no 'choice'.

At what point is there any freewill?

Can you please tell me when a 'situation' starts and finishes?

AGAIN...snooker? Really?

You are comparing yourself to a snooker ball to try and question me, using the fey illustration of snooker ball...your 'illustration' is irrelevant and meaningless...if I had used the illustration, I would have answered the question...

There is FREE WILL at all points (where conscious decisions are made) - which excludes 'pebble FREE WILL', or, snooker ball FREE WILL...I have not made any explicit, or implicit, statement which alludes, or, refers to inanimate objects...if you want to compare yourself to an inanimate object, you are quite welcome...

All situations are unfolding contiguously...the Source is the original 'situation'...the rest is history...contiguous, unfolding FREE WILL history...

...or perhaps you would see yourself as a pinball in a machine?...

A99

reply to post by akushla99


So you agree there is no freewill for the individual - that the 'situation' unfolds freely.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by akushla99

 

So you agree there is no freewill for the individual, that the situation unfolds.

What...are...you...reading?

A99

reply to post by akushla99


"All situations are unfolding contiguously...the Source is the original 'situation'...the rest is history...contiguous, unfolding FREE WILL history..." Quote.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by akushla99

 

"All situations are unfolding contiguously...the Source is the original 'situation'...the rest is history...contiguous, unfolding FREE WILL history..." Quote.

What words did you miss in that quote?

A99

reply to post by akushla99


I dunno - i'm thick - please enlighten me.
What words did i miss?

Do you agree there is no freewill for the individual - that the 'situation' unfolds freely?
Or do you disagree?

reply to post by Itisnowagain


So do you believe humans have the choice of free will in the events that unfold and they find themselves in? Or do you consider all outcomes are controlled by Fate?