If God is in control - the only mission of life is to "Receive" if not, it is to "Give"...

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posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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If God is in control, then only only mission to accept / receive what is unfolding in our lives, but if God is not in control and there is free-will, then the only way for us to sustain ourselves, to make Earth as heaven would be (without suffering) is to GIVE to others, then there would be no starvation, no dehydration, all would have what they need in this physical existence.


So does free-will exist ? Can God plan out someone's life (like an evil person such as an anti-christ or hitler) or is there really free will for ALL (which would mean prophecies can be changed and things can get better)?

Just a thought...




posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 

imo, there is no free will. your likes and dislikes are conditioned in early years. you "decide" in the way, you have learned and experienced.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 04:34 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 



So does free-will exist ? Can God plan out someone's life (like an evil person such as an anti-christ or hitler) or is there really free will for ALL (which would mean prophecies can be changed and things can get better)?


It is generally agreed that "God" is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. Essentially, he's anything he wants to be, and it's generally agreed that he has chosen to be everything and anything.

So since he knows everything - literally, everything - and can do anything - again, literally, anything - that means that all of our fates were chosen the moment this world was created. He knew everything that would happen, and chose to change none of it.

So yes, according to the Bible, our fates are predesignated. Sorry, but that's what the Bible says. There's no point choosing or fighting because we will inevitably fulfill our individual destinies according to our individual natures as designed by "God". According to logic, anyway.

edit on 9-11-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 05:09 PM
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If God is omniscient, he knows the future--and there can be no freewill.

If this were the case, we would all be actors on a stage, unknowingly acting out
the parts of a pre-scripted play. That doesn't sound like much fun--being punished
or rewarded for a life of good or bad, even before we were born.

I prefer to think of God as the proverbial wise man at the top of mountain. The one whom
people seek out to ask the question, "What is the purpose of life?"

And I think the answer is...to seek me.

So God sat at the top of the mountain and spread energy and matter across the universe.
He waited and watched while it coalesced and became living. It was a grand experiment
to see if life would succeed and seek out its source. Or if God would be left lonely on top
of his mountain as he watched his creation die, cooling and stalling and finally becoming
static at the point of absolute zero.

I think our task is to seek knowledge, and thru knowledge, to find the answers to creation..
I think our purpose is to climb the mountain and find God...





edit on 9-11-2012 by rival because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 


Yes, if God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, then everything is already completely controlled, including humans, and I already somewhat knew this. We have compassion and guilt limiting our actions and also physical laws such as gravity, but I wonder how much is controlled? Wouldn't this mean there is no free-will of thought and emotion also, especially since we pick up our thoughts from those we interact with.

reply to post by rival
 


Woah. That is an amazing analogy.

I guess this goes back to the original post.

If God just "gave" life to all existence, then by living through "giving" we are living in alignment with God's will; but if God created the energy and regulated it, for whatever reason, as an experience or whatever, then the mission to just accept how God orchestrates life.
edit on 9-11-2012 by arpgme because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 08:04 PM
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We do have free will according to heisenbergs uncertainty principle and the bible.The dilima is that if we do have free will , there would be no determinism, thus making God not all knowing.Catholics believe that both god is all knowing and that we do have free will. That which is the will of God.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by Theophorus
 


Calvinist would disagree that the bible says we have freewill.
Free-will is just "one" interpretation of the bible...



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Right. There is no such thing as free will. We have a will but it is not free and is confined by the laws of nature.no matter how hard we try, we cant escape death. Are will is only free within the laws of nature



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 10:29 PM
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reply to post by Theophorus
 


And how do you even know that the will is free? What if "will" is just something that comes and goes, and it isn't "yours" or "mine".



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 04:17 AM
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The solution to your paradox is that we are God. Before you were born, you chose limitation.

As individuals, we are supposed to tap into the creative mind of God through love and create our realities. God's essence is yours. We are supposed to tap into ourselves. There, we will find God as ourselves.

You create your reality. The forms were created by your higher self. As an individual, you create what the forms are. You define the essence. Your reality belongs to you. Everything you see is seen only by you. You are the only one that can look at the world and determine what it is, for yourself. For yourself, you should determine.

Love unites yourself with your higher God-self. Since you created reality, it is up to you, as an individual, to learn to live with what you created. As an individual, you don't have total free will. But as God, you do. As an individual, you can choose how you experience reality. You can accept all, and thus accept yourself. Or, you can hate all and thus hate yourself.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 



If God just "gave" life to all existence, then by living through "giving" we are living in alignment with God's will; but if God created the energy and regulated it, for whatever reason, as an experience or whatever, then the mission to just accept how God orchestrates life.


You cannot give without someone taking. It's a cycle. In the circle, you cannot go one direction without eventually going another. And even then, you go in one direction and someone sees you going in the other direction because they are looking from the other side.

And that's part of the nature of the universe right there - perspective. Nothing is absolute.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 12:01 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 



Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by arpgme
 


And that's part of the nature of the universe right there - perspective. Nothing is absolute.


Like you said near your profile pic, just because there is perspective doesn't mean there isn't truth.

I am not claiming to know "Truth" but I do know that everything in this physical existence is temporary, including memories which fade as people pass away.

I also know that there is no such thing as "possession", we label things as "mine" or "yours" but in reality they just exist, and they come and go without your permission, entering your life, or breaking in the future...

I realize that my thoughts are able to be thought because of words I've encountered and phrases used by others, and that my desires and goals of life was molded by my experience of life, and even my so-called "choice" to NOT act on my desire or goal is also apart of reasoning from my experience.

It is all dependent on something else, even if It were possible that I "chose" my desires and they didn't just naturally arise, it would be "something" compelling me to want "THAT" desire...

Knowing that all is dependent on something else shows, to me, that there may not be free-will, but I can not know this as 100% certainty, I admit.

What I do know is that life is WAAY better when living through acceptance, both of other people (the world/life) and of myself...

Even accepting - saying that it is "ok" - if even fear or something so-called "unwanted" happens...



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by arpgme
 




Like you said near your profile pic, just because there is perspective doesn't mean there isn't truth.


Does it say that?
edit on 10-11-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 



Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by arpgme
 




Like you said near your profile pic, just because there is perspective doesn't mean there isn't truth.


Does it say that?
edit on 10-11-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


Aw, that's not right.


Still, what do you think about what I said on desires in the previous post?



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 10:24 PM
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If God is omniscient, he knows the future--and there can be no freewill.
reply to post by rival
 


I disagree. God knows the future. That does not mean He chose it for you. It's like your life is a movie and He's seen all of it to the end. My will is the only thing I have that is my own.
edit on 11/10/2012 by sad_eyed_lady because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 10:29 PM
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reply to post by sad_eyed_lady
 


You do not "choose" your will. What you want to do is determined by your views of life and what is actually going on in your life and as life change and your views change, your "will" will change too, so you are NOT in control of it...



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 02:19 AM
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Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady


If God is omniscient, he knows the future--and there can be no freewill.
reply to post by rival
 


I disagree. God knows the future. That does not mean He chose it for you. It's like your life is a movie and He's seen all of it to the end. My will is the only thing I have that is my own.
edit on 11/10/2012 by sad_eyed_lady because: (no reason given)


If God has already foreseen everything that will be, then the future cannot be changed, and you cannot have
freewill if everything you do has been predetermined..

You see, God already knows what I am going to type next..,,,,,aksjowi*tNop

Any attempt to alter my course in life is futile...I have no freewill because God already knows
what I am going to do....

The idea of an omniscient God leaves everyone blameless for their sins...they had no choice
but to follow the plan that God had already foreseen.

I don't how many different ways I can try describe this, and I realize it is probably futile, but
you cannot have an omniscient God and freewill at the same time...



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 02:55 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Life is just happening - there is no one doing life. There can be no freewill for the individual because there is nothing 'individual', there is nothing separate from the happening.
Humans believe they are separate from the whole so worry that they are not doing it right. They don't realize that they are not doing it at all. When they realize they are not doing life, that life is just happening and they are not separate, there will be a relaxation into boundlessness.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 04:08 AM
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Originally posted by rival

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady


If God is omniscient, he knows the future--and there can be no freewill.
reply to post by rival
 


I disagree. God knows the future. That does not mean He chose it for you. It's like your life is a movie and He's seen all of it to the end. My will is the only thing I have that is my own.
edit on 11/10/2012 by sad_eyed_lady because: (no reason given)


If God has already foreseen everything that will be, then the future cannot be changed, and you cannot have
freewill if everything you do has been predetermined..

You see, God already knows what I am going to type next..,,,,,aksjowi*tNop

Any attempt to alter my course in life is futile...I have no freewill because God already knows
what I am going to do....

The idea of an omniscient God leaves everyone blameless for their sins...they had no choice
but to follow the plan that God had already foreseen.

I don't how many different ways I can try describe this, and I realize it is probably futile, but
you cannot have an omniscient God and freewill at the same time...


At the base of your argument, is the assertion that we have control over nothing...the will to do, to act, to think, to feel, to change course...you have wrapped this in with the erroneous notion that predetermination is a fait accompli, and therefore discount FREE WILL at all passes...all, I assure you, quite flawed...

What you try to describe is futile because it is missing huge chunks of sense...riddled with massive assumptions...

FREE WILL, being a mechanism of this 'seemingly' clockwork universe, you describe, in no way discounts an omniscient God...this notion is guff...and poorly thought out, by the so-called, greatest minds...

What need would an omniscient, omnipotent God have for ROBOTS?...and 'disobedient' ones, at that?

A99
edit on 11-11-2012 by akushla99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 04:13 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by sad_eyed_lady
 


You do not "choose" your will. What you want to do is determined by your views of life and what is actually going on in your life and as life change and your views change, your "will" will change too, so you are NOT in control of it...


If we were leaves floating on the ocean, I would have to agree with you...but we ain't, are we?!

A99





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