Why do we condemn the nazis when America has committed equally evil deeds?

Originally posted by VeniVidi
reply to post by lobotomizemecapin

 

I understand that Indians were killed in the United States, and they were treated in ways that no human beings should have been treated. But I never understand it when people complain that they were wiped out by the United States. At the time, most of the United States was made up of white European settlers. It always appears like these Indian massacre was a modern event.
Some also forget Historians estimate that the plague and other diseases killed at least 90 percent of the native population.

SOURCE

That doesnt justify the slaughter of the rest of them. Giving families small pox infested blankets and the like just for land.

reply to post by lobotomizemecapin


You're missing some key features.

One the industrialization of the North was making slavery obsolete and EXPENSIVE. The south was less industrialized and hence required the labor of slaves to produce for a growing nation. You're right, slavery would have gone the way of the dinosaur on it's own, in the North.

This fact was reinforcing abolitionist positions in the national government. The government then began to make moves against slavery which affected the Southern farm states. Cries of states' rights and succession soon followed.

The Civil War was a much about economics as it was about slavery. They were one in the same at the time.

They lost the war and to the victor goes the spoils. The winner gets to write the history books.

If, in the future, the US is defeated in a war, then the new authors will reflect the atrocities we have committed.

In my opinion, due to the information that has been provided to us, I believe them to be a vile group of people. 50-100 years from now, people may have the same opinion of us and group us together with them.

In any case, they did horrible, horrible things. ... so did we

This thread makes me think of this image:

Originally posted by lobotomizemecapin



What the hell makes us so much better from the rest of the world?

Our propaganda works better than Hitlers ever did.

Does that answer your question?

reply to post by Merriman Weir


And this post reminds me of this video:

Clickity

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by lobotomizemecapin

 

You're missing some key features.

One the industrialization of the North was making slavery obsolete and EXPENSIVE. The south was less industrialized and hence required the labor of slaves to produce for a growing nation. You're right, slavery would have gone the way of the dinosaur on it's own, in the North.

This fact was reinforcing abolitionist positions in the national government. The government then began to make moves against slavery which affected the Southern farm states. Cries of states' rights and succession soon followed.

The Civil War was a much about economics as it was about slavery. They were one in the same at the time.

This is true but dont you think it funny that THEY were very quick to cast judgement as soon as they decided to do away with slavery because it was no longer cost effective?

This was my point they waged war on their own countrymen because they knew it would be economically impossible to make such a huge change in the south without letting the newer technologies to be integrated into the south.

It was used as an excuse to get the sheep to allow their takeover with cheers and applause because it was the right thing to do

opportunistic vultures in my book

Originally posted by justwokeup

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by lobotomizemecapin

 

I'm no Nazi sympathizer but they never dropped two nuclear bombs on civilian populations. The Nazis are despicable for the crimes they committed, but they were just doing their jobs right? Well the American military are just doing their jobs too.

I wonder if the Nazis used depleted uranium munitions?

To be fair that was a matter of timing. Do you doubt for a second that the Nazis would have hesitated to nuke London if they had one they could put on a V2?

Use of the Hiroshima bomb is defensible (if horrible), use of the Nagasaki bomb less so.

No nation has clean hands. If you look for evil human actions you will find examples of it everywhere.

None of that made stopping the Nazis any less necessary in the 1940s. Pardoning present evil on the basis of past evils is flawed thinking. The trick is to learn not to make the same mistakes.

I have no doubts that Hitler would have used the bomb if he had the chance, but he didn't so we are discussing "what if's" which is pointless in my opinion.

Yes no nation has a clean hand, including my own which I openly criticize very often.

I am not pardoning present evils on the basis of past evils so I am not sure where you came up with this assumption of yours. My next post after the one you responded to explains how the Nazis became part of American society, even before the war.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The trick is to learn not to make the same mistakes indeed, too bad we have not learned and are making the same mistakes.

Originally posted by Sissel

Originally posted by lobotomizemecapin



What the hell makes us so much better from the rest of the world?

Our propaganda works better than Hitlers ever did.

Does that answer your question?

hahaha yes I guess it does

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
They lost the war and to the victor goes the spoils. The winner gets to write the history books.

If, in the future, the US is defeated in a war, then the new authors will reflect the atrocities we have committed.

In my opinion, due to the information that has been provided to us, I believe them to be a vile group of people. 50-100 years from now, people may have the same opinion of us and group us together with them.

In any case, they did horrible, horrible things. ... so did we

yes I imagine this will be the case

reply to post by lobotomizemecapin


That is such a painfully erroneous view of the basis for the civil war.

You need to spend some time reading up on the subject.

reply to post by Sissel


That's one of the best, most succinct answers I've seen on here. The Nazis made a lot of triumphalist 'art films' to spread their message. Very good for what they were. The U.S.A. have done it with popular cinema and 'funny' TV series. Rather portray the epitome of human/Aryan potential and 'no sex please, we're Nazis' wholesomeness, Americans have done it with dazzling teeth and tit implants. Rather than show violence in the context of a (allegedly) greater good (for the Reich!), Americans do it with witty one-liners and because the protagonist wants to get home to his family at Christmas.

Goebbels would have been green with envy.

reply to post by projectvxn


right....

And I'm sure your opinions are so infallible.

Originally posted by lobotomizemecapin
So the thread is just a question

The US has committed heinous crimes against the native americans

the US has committed heinous crimes against their own brothers and country men during the civil war

and these are just two examples

The nazis tried to destroy all the jews

The US tried to kill all the natives.


What the hell makes us so much better from the rest of the world?

The sad reality of it is that Americans are not willing to understand the harsh realities about our foreign policy, for example:

The incidents in the United States on September 11, 2001 resulted in the loss of 2,996 lives.

The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that America started in retaliation for the incidents on September 11, 2001 have resulted in the loss of 132,000 civilian lives. (A VERY conservative estimate by Brown University as cited in June 2011 Wired Magazine: www.wired.com... istan-iraq-wars-killed-132000-civilians-report-says/ )

Given the enormously disproportionate number 2,996 vs 132,000 American's still wonder why this country is hated throughout much of the globe.

That is just one example of the "All on you, None on me" mentality of much of the American public; a sad commentary on our society...

Sick bastards on top instances did atrocities throughout the history.
Dont blame it on America only.
Jesus, is it really that hard to respect other human?
I mean, how can we call ourselves civilized species if we cannot stand each other? -->This question equally reflected on these kinds of threads.

Originally posted by lobotomizemecapin
reply to post by projectvxn

 

right....

And I'm sure your opinions are so infallible.

It's not opinion. It's a matter of facts. You need to have those first before you are in the position to twist them into an opinion.

First arm yourself with the facts. Then come back and see where the civil war fits into this ridiculous thread of yours.

I'm glad to see this thread still alive - although I fear for its future!

These issues need to addressed - no matter who it offends

it's not an american bashing thread, but you start by comparing us to nazi germany? Yea, OK.

Lets skip colonial France.
Let's skip colonial England.
Lets's skip colonial Spain.
Let's skip inter-tribal wars in africa.
Let's skip the conquests of the muslim nations.
Lets skip the inter-tribal warfare of America's indig population.

Let's just compare america to nazi germany. makes perfect sense.

Does germany allow jews to live a tax free life?
Does germany give jews a college education?
Does germany have holidays for jewish heritage?

There is no such thing as a native american. All humans migrated to the continent at on time or another. The indig population that european explorers found were not even the first of the migration people.

reply to post by projectvxn


So the murder of american citizens by the government is justifiable to you?

History books written by the winners could never lie could they?

The poor are the ones sent to do the fighting I really doubt the rich care about their lives. It is always about grabbing more power without looking bad in the eye of the public.

Kind of hard to hold power when the masses are opposed

The facts are....factual. America did not put Indians in ovens however. Native Americans chose sides and fought for the British during our fight for independence. I suppose that did not help their cause. Not an excuse but still it factored in. They were generally given a chance to live and join American society rather than killed outright. Still no excuse but a factor. I see no real comparison to Hitler's campaign of genocide of the Jewish people there. Hitler was just plain evil. America just had some evil people making poor decisions. Humans will never change. There were actually Native Americans murdering white people too. Not that i blame them. Native Americans were considered sub-human in those days so they got run over.