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And, most importantly to any self-respecting Mason, where can I buy the lapel pins for these higher degrees?
Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
Originally posted by ringlejames
If you ever get beyond 33rd degree master mason...
Can you describe these Degrees? How high do they go? What body confers them? What is a list of members that you are aware of?
Originally posted by darkhorserider
So, I wore a Masonic shirt out today. I rarely do it, but I had a light T-shirt, it is comfy, and it is a warm day, so I threw it on.
My first stop was Ace Hardware. At the checkout, the cashier asked if I was a Mason, and I said yes. I asked her if she knew some Masons, and she said, no, but she knew they were good people. I thanked her, and then the lady behind me spoke up. She said she knew Masons supported the Shriners, and her son had a club foot when he was born 15 years ago, and the Shriners Hospital in Tampa fixed the foot for free, and they still see him once every year, and he is running track in high school this year! She gushed about the Shriners and thanked me for my service.
I finished paying, and as I walked out, a man who had overheard the conversation stopped me and asked if I was a Shriner. I said yes, and he said 20 years ago, he and a friend had wrecked a 4-wheeler and his friend ended up underneath of it, against the exhaust and became very badly injured and burned. The local hospitals couldn't handle his injuries, and after being stablized he was flown to Shriners Burn Unit in Houston, where he was treated at no charge, and made a full recovery after several difficult surgeries.
Now, to be honest, this was a little distracting for me. I've heard these stories many, many times, and I was in quite a hurry to get a lot of errands run and yard work done today, but of course I was polite and thanked them for the conversation.
Next stop was the car wash, and as I vacummed my car, a young women from the next stall came over to ask if I was a Mason. I said yes, as I thought of the time ticking away on my vacuum token, and she proceeded to tell me her grandfather was a Mason, and her brother wanted to get involved, and she knew what a quality organization it was, and she hoped her brother would meet some really good role models there. My vacuum time ran out, and I proceeded to give her my name and number, and the numbers of a few other guys that would gladly talk to her brother if he was interested.
This was just one hour wearing a Masonic T-shirt on a Saturday morning.
For those folks that love to criticize, and think the whole world is similar to the internet...
I challenge you!
Put on a Masonic T-shirt one day, and go out into the world.
Don't lie about your affiliation. When folks ask, tell them you are not a Mason, you just like the T-shirt, and then listen to the stories they tell you about Masonry.
The only place Masons are feared and ridiculed is on the internet. In real life, real folks admire and appreciate Masonry, and they have nothing but good things to say about it. Not once in my 10 years as a Mason has a person ever asked if I was a Mason, and then proceeded to ask about conspiracy theories, or huff at my affiliation, or seem taken back, or mentioned anything remotely similar to the stuff on ATS and other sites.
TRY IT! I dare you. But don't do it if you have a lot of yard work to get done!
Originally posted by magickmaster
Can you please tell me something you have done in your life that makes you feel exceptionally proud to have contributed to humanity?
Can you please tell me something you have done in your life that makes you feel exceptionally proud to have contributed to humanity?
Originally posted by AussieDingus
31 colleges out of approx. 2300 could also be classed as a small number of colleges.
As for many more Presidents not coming from college secret societies.................well unless their membership has been exposed or admitted to, then no one can really say for sure that they were or weren't members and it would be all opinion, and claims of many more not being a member can't really be proven.
When the US can come withing a whisker of producing a father/son [Bush] and husband/wife [Clinton] combination over 20 years of Presidents, then you know something must be wrong with the official line.
Throw into that 14 out of 44 presidents being Freemason's, and possible VP's or advisors, then no one can blame anyone for at least considering the possibility that there is something seriously amiss with the system.
You are right that this reflects on society in general, but secret socities, or societies with secrets are salso part of society whether they choose to be or not. It is a broader society problem, but most problems can be fixed by looking at some of the smaller problems contributing to the bigger problem.
So the fact that 44 Presidents went to 31 colleges out of 2300 means what exactly? How on earth could 44 presidents come from 2300 colleges? Maybe if each president had attended 52 different schools you'd be happier? I'm not sure what your point is.
Originally posted by AussieDingus
Well it looks like i may of just lost my small wager !
But according to the US Department of Education there are approx. 2300 colleges in the US granting a 4 year degree. I could use the same logic applied to me by saying that 14 Presidents out of 44 isn't warranted criticism of Freemasonry, well 31 colleges out of approx. 2300 could also be classed as a small number of colleges. I think i just saved my small wager ?
Originally posted by AussieDingus
What exactly do you mean by your secrets have been readily available for public consumption in some form or other ? Or more specifically, what do you mean when you say "in some form or other" ? Doe's that mean clearly written or spoken ? Does it mean in a cryptic way that most people wouldn't see either way ?
Maybe those 2 should have a discussion amongst themselves and come to a common ground before telling other's what is or isn't correct ?
And i'm not implying that Freemasonry is a cult, i was just referring to what another Mason had said, only to be contradicted by another Mason.
As for the tour of Area 51, i get your point and it was a tongue in check comment
Ahhhh, but is learning how to recognize another Mason ALL that the secrets conatin ????
Maybe its just me, but i have a hard time believing that the purpose ,or secret of a group is just to be able to recognize other members ?
As for 68% failing...................well it depends on what you class as failing, and my previous post about "advisor's" also needs to be taken into account and would explain my point here further. Lets just say that for example, a non-mason was President, but 10 of his 15 UNELECTED advisor's were Freemason's, would that still class as a "fail" considering you would have a majority in the Presidents ear, or should i say, a majority pulling the Presidents strings ??? Just an example, not an accusation.
My point about the 32nd and 33rd was purely about showing a level system that was denied by someone claiming to be a Mason. If nothing was taught, earnt, given, passed on etc, then what is the real point of having 32nd and 33rd ?
And i am aware that any group has officers and different positions, but the claim of all men being equal amongst the group cannot be true when you have a hierachy in place no matter how good their intentions may be. But i guess it all comes down to one's definition of 'equal' ?
Thanks for your response and comments
Just out of curiousity, what would happen if a member said that they did believe in a Supreme Being when asked, but it was later revealed by whatever means that they in fact didn't completely believe. Would they be asked to leave, forced to leave,punished, looked down upon?
Can you believe in both Creation and Evolution and still be a Freemason?
Originally posted by OnTheLevel213
Originally posted by AussieDingus
31 colleges out of approx. 2300 could also be classed as a small number of colleges.
That's true if you don't look at the total opportunities. There have only been 44 opportunities to have a future President attend your school, and 31 schools have done so. (You also have to consider the fact that a vast majority of institutions of higher learning were founded after the 20th century; those who have had full opportunity are even smaller.)
As for many more Presidents not coming from college secret societies.................well unless their membership has been exposed or admitted to, then no one can really say for sure that they were or weren't members and it would be all opinion, and claims of many more not being a member can't really be proven.
Then this is a moot point.
When the US can come withing a whisker of producing a father/son [Bush] and husband/wife [Clinton] combination over 20 years of Presidents, then you know something must be wrong with the official line.
Being associated with influential people can give you influence. The association here is family, not secret organizations.
Throw into that 14 out of 44 presidents being Freemason's, and possible VP's or advisors, then no one can blame anyone for at least considering the possibility that there is something seriously amiss with the system.
Correlation =/=causation. (Especially a relatively weak one.)
You are right that this reflects on society in general, but secret socities, or societies with secrets are salso part of society whether they choose to be or not. It is a broader society problem, but most problems can be fixed by looking at some of the smaller problems contributing to the bigger problem.
Your line of thinking appears to be "Problems exist, so let's find a way that this is one of them." That's not a way to fix anything.
Originally posted by JoshNorton
So the fact that 44 Presidents went to 31 colleges out of 2300 means what exactly? How on earth could 44 presidents come from 2300 colleges? Maybe if each president had attended 52 different schools you'd be happier? I'm not sure what your point is.
Originally posted by AussieDingus
Well it looks like i may of just lost my small wager !
But according to the US Department of Education there are approx. 2300 colleges in the US granting a 4 year degree. I could use the same logic applied to me by saying that 14 Presidents out of 44 isn't warranted criticism of Freemasonry, well 31 colleges out of approx. 2300 could also be classed as a small number of colleges. I think i just saved my small wager ?
At most, there could be 44 different schools represented. (Well, OK, conceivably as many as 88, if every single president got a master's degree and got it from a different institution than where they'd gotten their bachelor's...) How does 2300 even factor in, in your mind?
Originally posted by AussieDingus
Fair point. But now lets broaden that from not just Presidents, lets also throw in VP's, advisor's, Congressmen, Senator's, multi-national CEO's and the board of director's. What if those 6 positions now brought the figure of 44 from 31 colleges to maybe say, 1000 from 31 colleges ?
I know the original question was about Presidents, but VP's must also be included because they are one step from having the top job.
Advisor's must also be included because they have the ear [strings] of the President. Congressmen and Senators have powerful say and influence and can pass or deny a Presidents bill, so they too have to be included.
Big Business, and the top end of the banking system rule our Government, therefore they too have to be included as they influence a Presidents decision.
As for the Bush and Clinton families, yes they are connected by family, yet one of those families is connected by a Secret Society, do we know for sure that the other family isn't as well ?
And i'm sorry, but NO, my way of thinking is not "a problem exists, so lets find a way that this is one of them" and thats clearly not what i wrote or meant. All i said was when a bigger problem exists, then whats wrong with looking at the smaller problems that may be contributing to the bigger problem.
If my car engine stops running, i don't just say "oh, the engine's stuffed", i open the bonnet and i start at a certain point to see what may be causing the engine not to work as its supposed to. I check water and oil levels, i check the battery, i check the sprak plugs, the radiator because any of these smaller problems could be a cause or large contributor to the bigger problem of the engine not working. I'm not looking to blame one of these things for the engine not working, i'm looking for the thing thats stopping the engine from working. So do i just sit back and look at the engine and say "its not working", or do i look for a possible reason why it isn't working.
Originally posted by AussieDingus
I was just using that persons logic with the same logic to show it makes no sense. How does 14 Freemason Presidents out of 44, or, 14 Presidents out of 44 from ONE organization get dismissed as just a co-incidence in anyone's mind ?
What college's did the 14 Freemason's come from ? I will look this up myself but it would be interesting if the 14 Freemason presidents came from only 2 or 3 colleges. If thats the case my small wager still looks safe !
Originally posted by AussieDingus
How does 14 Freemason Presidents out of 44, or, 14 Presidents out of 44 from ONE organization get dismissed as just a co-incidence in anyone's mind ?
Originally posted by darkhorserider
reply to post by AussieDingus
I agree, it is not just a coincidence, but it is also no kind of conspiracy. The Masons were instrumental in the early days of the the Republic. They were reknowned and educated and involved. The very style of government we enjoy has roots in Masonry, just like our modern way of conducting board meetings has its roots in Masonry and all subsequent fraternities and sororoties have their roots in Masonry.
The Lodge Business in Masonry is organized, fair, and democratic, while also being efficient and effective. It has been tried and trued, so it makes sense it would be emulated.
I would vote for a Masonic candidate even today. (Actually, I just had a chance to vote for a Masonic candidate for Sheriff, and I decided not to vote for him, LOL). BUT, all things being equal, if given half an opportunity, I would vote for a Masonic president today!