A challenge for the Mason haters

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posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by OnTheLevel213
 


But according to a Mason on here, its only secret is to teach Mason's how to recognize other Mason's. I'm guessing it must be a short, thin book ?




posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by AussieDingus
 


No. Not at all. A "coincidence" is when similarities arise with no underlying reason.

You won't find number of Presidents who were Freemasons (14) or lawyers (26) or Episcopalians (12) for no reason, but those reasons aren't due to an organized plan by the Episcopal Church or the American Bar Association or the various Grand Lodges. You find a lot of Episcopalian Presidents because mainline Protestantism is unlikely to produce scandal; you find a lot of lawyer Presidents because people with a passion for the law naturally want to become lawmakers; you find a lot of Masonic Presidents because people who want to do right by the community often end up in government. None of these is a coincidence, and none of these is a conspiracy.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 04:37 PM
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reply to post by AussieDingus
 


I didn't say everything in the book was secret; I said the secrets were in the book. You'll find our rituals (not secret) in there as well.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by OnTheLevel213
 



You claim that Freemasonry welcomes a differing of opinions...............but not in the case of not believing in a Supreme Being ?

And i am not using something disproven as evidence. That's why i said "do we know for sure". I never claimed it to be, i was just asking the question which i still see nothing wrong with.

The simple reason why its not just about money is because its about where the money supply that we know today started. Its no longer a secret that a small group of family bloodlines started the banking system that we have today. Its no secret how much wealth the Royal families have, yet they have their own society. Start looking at the top end of the money scale and you start to see societies form and societies within societies.

My example about the car engine was just to show that the easy way to a solution would just be to say the engine's not working, but if you put some thought and logic into then theres obviously at least one smaller problem adding to or even causing the problem, so why not look for that problem. The quick leap as you refer to would be just to say the engine's broken. The logical choice would be to look for causes of th engine no running !



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by AussieDingus
How does 14 Freemason Presidents out of 44, or, 14 Presidents out of 44 from ONE organization get dismissed as just a co-incidence in anyone's mind ?


I think what should trouble you more is that 26 of the 43 men were lawyers. That is definetly not a coincidence.


Now that's just scary !

But i won't say it's planned becasue the lawyers will line up to tell me that if it was planned the percentage would be higher Lol

Were any of the 26 Lawyers, Freemason's as well ? The reason i ask is because if they weren't then wouldn't that make it 40 out of 44 Presidents either a Freemason or a Lawyer ? And if that was the number, thats now 2 organizations that may of produced approx. 90% of all US Presidents. But move along people, nothing to see here !



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 02:44 AM
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reply to post by AussieDingus
 

My State's Blue Lodge ritual monitor is rather thick for a small book. Some of my monitors from other bodies are rather slim, but they all make a great stack when combined.

reply to post by AussieDingus
 

We shouldn't forget that quite a few of our early Presidents were surveyors.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by AussieDingus

Originally posted by darkhorserider
reply to post by AussieDingus
 


I agree, it is not just a coincidence, but it is also no kind of conspiracy. The Masons were instrumental in the early days of the the Republic. They were reknowned and educated and involved. The very style of government we enjoy has roots in Masonry, just like our modern way of conducting board meetings has its roots in Masonry and all subsequent fraternities and sororoties have their roots in Masonry.

The Lodge Business in Masonry is organized, fair, and democratic, while also being efficient and effective. It has been tried and trued, so it makes sense it would be emulated.

I would vote for a Masonic candidate even today. (Actually, I just had a chance to vote for a Masonic candidate for Sheriff, and I decided not to vote for him, LOL). BUT, all things being equal, if given half an opportunity, I would vote for a Masonic president today!


If something isn't a co-incidence, then isn't it planned, or posibly even conspired ?


No sometimes it is just a logical progression. If a certain group of people have similar interests, then those people will probably be over-represented in that interest, while other people are just not interested.

I don't think there is a master conspiracy to turn inner city youth into rappers, but they are overly represented as such. There isn't a conspiracy to turn gay men into hairdressers, but they seem to enjoy it and are overly represented in the profession.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 12:24 AM
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Originally posted by OnTheLevel213
reply to post by AussieDingus
 


No. Not at all. A "coincidence" is when similarities arise with no underlying reason.

You won't find number of Presidents who were Freemasons (14) or lawyers (26) or Episcopalians (12) for no reason, but those reasons aren't due to an organized plan by the Episcopal Church or the American Bar Association or the various Grand Lodges. You find a lot of Episcopalian Presidents because mainline Protestantism is unlikely to produce scandal; you find a lot of lawyer Presidents because people with a passion for the law naturally want to become lawmakers; you find a lot of Masonic Presidents because people who want to do right by the community often end up in government. None of these is a coincidence, and none of these is a conspiracy.


Its not the definition of coincidence that i disagree with. Its whether it is or isn't a coincidence that i'm questioning.

From my life experience, the main reason people want to become a lawmaker is more to do with ego and power, then it is for passion of the Law. And again from my own point of view, most people i know that want to good by the community do so on a volunteer level and expect no reward, recognition or job title in return.

I'm not sure how much you know about Australian politic's, but the way it usually works here is the more you have the communities best interest at heart, the more likely your career in Canberra will be short lived. I'm not saying you're wrong, but i have a different view on things due to my life experience, much as you have your view due to yours. Neither of us are "wrong", we are just different



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 07:15 AM
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Originally posted by AussieDingus
Its not the definition of coincidence that i disagree with. Its whether it is or isn't a coincidence that i'm questioning.


Once again, no one is saying it's a coincidence. I'm pointing out that the gulf between "coincidence" and "conspiracy" is wide.


And again from my own point of view, most people i know that want to good by the community do so on a volunteer level and expect no reward, recognition or job title in return.


This almost exactly describes Freemasonry. Almost all political careers (at least in America) have some root in nonprofit service.


I'm not sure how much you know about Australian politic's, but the way it usually works here is the more you have the communities best interest at heart, the more likely your career in Canberra will be short lived. I'm not saying you're wrong, but i have a different view on things due to my life experience, much as you have your view due to yours. Neither of us are "wrong", we are just different


People say that here, too. I guess I'm just not as cynical as most.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 07:26 AM
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reply to post by darkhorserider
 


Even christians know that to save their souls, charity is important. It always depends for what reasons you do it...
It's a simple spiritual concept, to be able to give without expecting anything in return.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 07:28 AM
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reply to post by darkhorserider
 


You could also switch the word mason with "Hell's Angel". They also give to organisations and even sponsor hospitals!



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by AussieDingus
reply to post by OnTheLevel213
 

You claim that Freemasonry welcomes a differing of opinions...............but not in the case of not believing in a Supreme Being ?


Yes.


And i am not using something disproven as evidence. That's why i said "do we know for sure". I never claimed it to be, i was just asking the question which i still see nothing wrong with.


The problem is that your speculation is less and less well-founded, and ill-founded speculation isn't that likely to yield the answers you're looking for.


The simple reason why its not just about money is because its about where the money supply that we know today started. Its no longer a secret that a small group of family bloodlines started the banking system that we have today.


You're citing conjecture as fact.


Its no secret how much wealth the Royal families have, yet they have their own society. Start looking at the top end of the money scale and you start to see societies form and societies within societies.


This depends on your standard of proof.


My example about the car engine was just to show that the easy way to a solution would just be to say the engine's not working, but if you put some thought and logic into then theres obviously at least one smaller problem adding to or even causing the problem, so why not look for that problem. The quick leap as you refer to would be just to say the engine's broken. The logical choice would be to look for causes of th engine no running !


Not arguing this. I'm identifying reasons that what you're claiming (or questioning) is not the problem. That's part of logic too.





posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:52 AM
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Originally posted by sebHFX
reply to post by darkhorserider
 


You could also switch the word mason with "Hell's Angel". They also give to organisations and even sponsor hospitals!


That is kind of missing the point. The point is, I wore a Masonic T-shirt, and I was approached in public by several strangers that respected the organization. If I wore a Hell's Angel jacket, I think the public perception would be different.

However, it is a valid point, I enjoy the distance and glares that I get when I wear my biker vest, and I got my picture taken with a couple of Hell's Angel bikers one day, because it was just such a novelty. They were nice enough fellas, but I don't believe the average person would walk up to a Hell's Angel and strike up a conversation and ask for a picture, LOL!



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by sebHFX
 

And what crimes have we committed that the Hell's Angels have?



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by darkhorserider

Originally posted by AussieDingus

Originally posted by darkhorserider
reply to post by AussieDingus
 


I agree, it is not just a coincidence, but it is also no kind of conspiracy. The Masons were instrumental in the early days of the the Republic. They were reknowned and educated and involved. The very style of government we enjoy has roots in Masonry, just like our modern way of conducting board meetings has its roots in Masonry and all subsequent fraternities and sororoties have their roots in Masonry.

The Lodge Business in Masonry is organized, fair, and democratic, while also being efficient and effective. It has been tried and trued, so it makes sense it would be emulated.

I would vote for a Masonic candidate even today. (Actually, I just had a chance to vote for a Masonic candidate for Sheriff, and I decided not to vote for him, LOL). BUT, all things being equal, if given half an opportunity, I would vote for a Masonic president today!


If something isn't a co-incidence, then isn't it planned, or posibly even conspired ?


No sometimes it is just a logical progression. If a certain group of people have similar interests, then those people will probably be over-represented in that interest, while other people are just not interested.

I don't think there is a master conspiracy to turn inner city youth into rappers, but they are overly represented as such. There isn't a conspiracy to turn gay men into hairdressers, but they seem to enjoy it and are overly represented in the profession.


Sometimes it is a logical progression, other times its a planned progression, and other times its just a coincidence. But until all the facts are presented, none can be ruled out or dismissed. After all, thats what a conspiracy theorey is, its a theorey that is YET to be disproven !

If you counted the number of inner city youth and then counted how many actually became rappers, i think you'd find it would be a lot lower then 14 out of 44, probably more like 1 out of 100,000. As for gay hairdressers, do straight male barbers get included in the profession ? I'm not saying that all barbers are straight, but i'm sure quite a few are ?



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by OnTheLevel213

Originally posted by AussieDingus
reply to post by OnTheLevel213
 

You claim that Freemasonry welcomes a differing of opinions...............but not in the case of not believing in a Supreme Being ?


Yes.


And i am not using something disproven as evidence. That's why i said "do we know for sure". I never claimed it to be, i was just asking the question which i still see nothing wrong with.


The problem is that your speculation is less and less well-founded, and ill-founded speculation isn't that likely to yield the answers you're looking for.


The simple reason why its not just about money is because its about where the money supply that we know today started. Its no longer a secret that a small group of family bloodlines started the banking system that we have today.


You're citing conjecture as fact.


Its no secret how much wealth the Royal families have, yet they have their own society. Start looking at the top end of the money scale and you start to see societies form and societies within societies.


This depends on your standard of proof.


My example about the car engine was just to show that the easy way to a solution would just be to say the engine's not working, but if you put some thought and logic into then theres obviously at least one smaller problem adding to or even causing the problem, so why not look for that problem. The quick leap as you refer to would be just to say the engine's broken. The logical choice would be to look for causes of th engine no running !


Not arguing this. I'm identifying reasons that what you're claiming (or questioning) is not the problem. That's part of logic too.




Ill-founded speculation............really ? And how would you know what shoes i've walked in to come to my opinions and thoughts ?

My standards of proof haven't let me down so far, so even though they may not be up to a Mason's standards, they have served me well enough so far in life. Whats the standard of proof of believing that there is beyond question, a Supreme Being ?



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 05:05 AM
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In an earlier post, the connection between the Masonic "G" and the number 666 was explained.
Now, the alphanumeric link between the number 33 and OT/NT words using gematria will be looked at:

Biblical Hebrew and Greek words having a numeric value of 33:

1) אבל to fall; to wither; to sink down; to mourn, to wail, to cry out;
2) בלא to vex; to harm;
3) חכה an angle; a hook; bait
4) יחיה "Yah lives"
5) לא ב to burn
6) לבא to seize, to raven/ravish; to roar, to bellow
7) באל Bel "Lord" Ex 6:3
8) ויחבאו hide Jos 10:16
9) איבך enemy Ex 23:4
10) ובאחיו brethren Ex 32:29
11) החטיא sin 1Ki 14:16
12) כאבי sorrow Job 16:6
13) αιδηι Hades, Hell Luk 16:23
14) ואבדך perish "abad (of Abadon) Ez 28:16



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 05:09 AM
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Originally posted by BacknTime
So your saying that if i put on a Mason T-shirt I will unlock new quest when interacting with different characters.. Like in the Elder scrolls

That is my favourite reply I've read in a long time



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by OnTheLevel213

Originally posted by AussieDingus
Its not the definition of coincidence that i disagree with. Its whether it is or isn't a coincidence that i'm questioning.


Once again, no one is saying it's a coincidence. I'm pointing out that the gulf between "coincidence" and "conspiracy" is wide.


And again from my own point of view, most people i know that want to good by the community do so on a volunteer level and expect no reward, recognition or job title in return.


This almost exactly describes Freemasonry. Almost all political careers (at least in America) have some root in nonprofit service.


I'm not sure how much you know about Australian politic's, but the way it usually works here is the more you have the communities best interest at heart, the more likely your career in Canberra will be short lived. I'm not saying you're wrong, but i have a different view on things due to my life experience, much as you have your view due to yours. Neither of us are "wrong", we are just different


People say that here, too. I guess I'm just not as cynical as most.


Sorry, but i have had a person on this thread claiming to be a Mason who said it IS a coincidence, and would hear nothing else otherwise. And yes there is a gulf betwen coincidence and conspiracy, but in some cases, the closer one looks, the more one can see that the gap between coincidence and conspiracy isn't all that far. Lets take 9/11 as an example, the official story is that there was no prior knowledge of the attacks, yet several American businessman made serious profits from selling off their stock options on the airlines used in the attacks just before the attacks happened. Now this could easliy be classed as a coincidence, yet i can assure you that if you looked closer and followed the money trail, you'd find that the official story doesn't add up, and several American businessmen made heavy profits from having inside information in advance of the attacks, or, it was just a coincidence. Now there is the possibility that these businessmen just got very, very, very, and i emphasize VERY lucky, or they got very, very wealthy from having inside information. Even Alex Jones came out months before the attacks and said it would happen, and even said who will be the fallguy [Osama], yet his Government will claim to have no prior knowledge, despite several other countries clearly showing the documentation they passed on about a possible attack.
While on the subject, doesn't it seem strange that the footage of the 2 planes hitting the twin towers has become the most replayed TV event in history, yet there is still no clear footage of what hit the Pentagon depsite it being one of, if not the most photographed building in the world with camera's covering every angle ? Now this could just be a coincidence, but common sense and a logical thinking process would at least ask the question, why would someone claiming to be the victim of an attack, not release the footage of what would only further incriminate the people they were accusing of the attacks ? These are only 2 points of many that show holes in the official story, and i could go on, but i'll just leave it at that for now,because i'd hate be called cynical for questioning something that doesn't make sense !

As for my example almost exactly describing Freemasonry, it also almost exactly describes a lot of non-Freemason's as well.

So if i have an opinion based on my own experience's, and with what i see with my own eyes, and i see it happen over and over again, then that makes me cynical ? Have you ever considered why people here and there might have this view, or is it just easier to dismiss it as being cynical ?

If you think i'm the sort of person that just looks for a conspiracy in anything and everything, then you couldn't be more wrong about me. I don't know who planned 9/11, but i do know the official story doesn't add up. I don't know if we went to the moon or if it was shot in a Hollywood basement, but i do know both sides put up a good argument but both have some holes too. I don't know if Aliens exist, but i don't dismiss the possibility of it being true. I don't know if a Supreme Being exists, but i don't dismiss the possiblity of it being true. I don't know who shot JFK, but i know the official story doesn't add up. I don't know if Reptilians exist, but i do know its either very good creative writing, or things just got very interesting !

But thats just me. Until something can be clearly ruled out, then it will remain a possibility in my view. It just depends on how much of a possibility that influences my opinion. Do you believe in any conspiracy's ? The reason i ask is that most on ATS believe in at least one conspiracy, so i was just wondering what made you join, and if there was at least one possible conspiracy that you may believe in ?



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 02:28 PM
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A challenge for the Fox haters

So, I wore a shirt out today with a picture of a fox on. I rarely do it, but I had a light T-shirt, it is comfy, and it is a warm day, so I threw it on.

My first stop was Sainsbury supermarket. At the checkout, the cashier asked if I was a fox lover, and I said yes. I asked her if she knew some fox lovers, and she said, no, but she knew they were good people. I thanked her, and then the lady behind me spoke up. She said she knew fox lovers and supported the animal activists, and her son had a club foot when he was born 15 years ago, and the fox lovers at the local vets fixed the foot for free, and they still see him once every year, and he is running track in high school this year! She gushed about the fox lovers and thanked me for my service.

I finished paying, and as I walked out, a man who had overheard the conversation stopped me and asked if I was a fox lover. I said yes, and he said 20 years ago, he and a friend had wrecked a 4-wheeler and his friend ended up underneath of it, against the exhaust and became very badly injured and burned. The local hospitals couldn't handle his injuries, and after being stablized he was flown to Fox Lovers Vets Unit in Houston, where he was treated at no charge, and made a full recovery after several difficult surgeries.

Now, to be honest, this was a little distracting for me. I've heard these stories many, many times, and I was in quite a hurry to get a lot of errands run and yard work done today, but of course I was polite and thanked them for the conversation.

Next stop was the car wash, and as I vacummed my car, a young women from the next stall came over to ask if I was a Fox lover. I said yes, as I thought of the time ticking away on my vacuum token, and she proceeded to tell me her grandfather was a Fox lover, and her brother wanted to get involved, and she knew what a quality organization it was, and she hoped her brother would meet some really good role models there. My vacuum time ran out, and I proceeded to give her my name and number, and the numbers of a few other guys that would gladly talk to her brother if he was interested.

This was just one hour wearing a Fox Lover T-shirt on a Saturday morning.

For those folks that love to criticize, and think the whole world is similar to the internet...

I challenge you!
Put on a Fox Lover T-shirt one day, and go out into the world.

Don't lie about your affiliation. When folks ask, tell them you are not a Fox Lover, you just like the T-shirt, and then listen to the stories they tell you about Fox Lovers.

The only place Fox Lovers are feared and ridiculed is at rich freemason fox hunting type clubs. In real life, real folks admire and appreciate fox lovers, and they have nothing but good things to say about them. Not once in my 10 years as a Fox Lover has a person ever asked if I was a Fox lover, and then proceeded to ask about my animal rights activities, or huff at my fury affiliations, or seem taken back, or mentioned anything remotely similar to the stuff said at rich freemason fox hunting type clubs and similar places.

TRY IT! I dare you. But don't do it if you have a lot of yard work to get done!


See what I did there? You could fill the blanks with anything really and the story would be the same





 
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