US Boy Scout 'perversion files' released

Originally posted by Annee
A pedophile is a pedophile. It is an orientation on to itself. The attraction is children.

If a pedophile has sex with opposite gender - - - it is a pedophile committing a heterosexual act.

If a pedophile has sex with same gender - - - it is a pedophile committing a homosexual act.

A heterosexual does not commit a pedophile act.

A homosexual does not commit a pedophile act.

Yes! The fact is Pedophilia is a Sexual Orientation sub-category. Accepting that is the first step towards dealing with it.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Annee

 

I disagree. There are straight pedophiles, gay pedophiles, and bi pedophiles. Same as "normal" sexuality goes, it's never as black and white as people like to make it out to be.

NO - - they are NOT.

A pedophile is a pedophile is a pedophile. Pedophile is the orientation.

The orientation Pedophile's attraction is children.

No matter what sex act they commit - - - it is a Pedophile committing the act - - - no matter what the act is.

reply to post by Annee

The orientation Pedophile's attraction is children.

No matter what sex act they commit - - - it is a Pedophile committing the act - - - no matter what the act is.

I can't say we agree often, Annee. In fact, (checks for blue moon...) nvm... This would be the exception without doubt. I had to go look this up because I really couldn't recall if this was Disorder, Preference or just HOW it was viewed by the Official community. Well, here it be, and again...You have the facts straight on.

This is from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) and the DSM-V planned revisions.

A. Over a period of at least 6 months, an equal or greater sexual arousal from prepubescent or early pubescent children than from physically mature persons, as manifested by fantasies, urges, or behaviors.

B. The individual has acted on these sexual urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

C. The individual must be at least 18 years of age and at least 5 years older than the children in Criterion A.

Specify type:

Classic Type—Sexually Attracted to Prepubescent Children (Tanner Stage 1)

Hebephilic Type—Sexually Attracted to Early Pubescent Children (Tanner Stages 2-3)

Pedohebephilic Type—Sexually Attracted to Both

Source

It comes under Paraphilic Disorder. Other things to come under that, according to the DSM are:

U 00 Exhibitionistic Disorder
U 01 Fetishistic Disorder
U 02 Frotteuristic Disorder
U 03 Pedophilic Disorder
U 04 Sexual Masochism Disorder
U 05 Sexual Sadism Disorder
U 06 Transvestic Disorder
U 07 Voyeuristic Disorder
U 08 Paraphilic Disorders Not Elsewhere Classified

Source

What a world we live in, eh?

reply to post by Annee


And you know this from what experience? How many have you interacted with and observed? I have observed many in the places they hang out at, where they feel safe and free to express themselves. Would you like to explain how a lot are not exclusive pedophiles then? How they can be both attracted to women their own age and also little girls for example?

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

I can't say we agree often, Annee. In fact, (checks for blue moon...)

nvm...

LOL - - wouldn't it be boring if we all agreed.

Our viewpoints may not come from the same "point of perception" - - - but I do try to know my stuff.

Classifying pedophiles as of their own orientation is fairly new. I'm sure not every professional agrees.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Annee

 

And you know this from what experience?

Seriously?

reply to post by TKDRL

How they can be both attracted to women their own age and also little girls for example?

Because they are clearly sick

reply to post by Annee


Well yeah, really. How can you claim to know what you are talking about, if you have no experience? Psychology is not a science, such as physics. Most of it is really just trial and error, guesswork. Remember, just 100 years ago, we were ramming icepicks into people's brains, and electrocuting them, and all kinds of crazy things. Just 50 years ago being gay was considered a mental illness. Etc Etc. The fact that people can be both a pedophile, and attracted to adults blows the whole black and white classification out of the water really.

People are really too complex to try and box them all up all neat and proper. One of the pitfalls of psychology is just that IMO. Instead of treating individuals, they want to put them in one of the boxes, and treat the box. In reality, no two people are alike, even if they might happen to share the same mental thing. The same treatment might not work on two depressed people for example.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Annee

 

Well yeah, really. How can you claim to know what you are talking about, if you have no experience?

15 years of interest - - - enough interest to actually spend time researching it and reading. An accumulation of information from years of interest and research and reading.

What is your experience?

reply to post by Annee


Agreed on the first points and yes, while I see much you write I disagree with...I rarely post a reply to note that because you state your positions accurately the vast majority of the time, IMO. You leave so little to grab for a debate handle.

That definition there is absolutely new. I don't know how much you've followed the ping pong of the DSM revisions..but it's due out in 2013 now. The DSM-V, I mean. The above is what is expected to appear in it for the new criteria and classifications on Pedos. It's a revision, not a new creation of course...but like the Autism Spectrum Disorder changes, a revision can be significant at times.

It's certainly important to note that the section on Pedos AND the whole family of disorders it's a part of mention nothing about Gays. Nada... Zip. I'm taking that to mean that Officialdom does not consider the two related for cause/effect either direction. Good news..on many levels..and I guess that answers what I had last page about studies done. At least it seems a real strong indicator of official Psych views on it.

reply to post by detachedindividual


i dont know i get what ur saying, but any dude that wants to do another dude is homosexual or has homosexual tendices, just how any chick that want to do another chick is homosexual or has homosexual tendices, the ones that want to do kids of the same sex are sick in the head and are homosexual or have homosexual tendiecies. I understand that not all homosexuals are sick just as not all hetrosexuals are sick, yet hetrosexuals can be sick by showing hetrosexual tedecies towards kids. know what im saying

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Annee

 

Agreed on the first points and yes, while I see much you write I disagree with...I rarely post a reply to note that because you state your positions accurately the vast majority of the time, IMO. You leave so little to grab for a debate handle.

I've been doing this since ICQ format - - in other words - - a long time

That definition there is absolutely new. I don't know how much you've followed the ping pong of the DSM revisions..but it's due out in 2013 now. The DSM-V, I mean. The above is what is expected to appear in it for the new criteria and classifications on Pedos. It's a revision, not a new creation of course...but like the Autism Spectrum Disorder changes, a revision can be significant at times.

Understanding evolves. My 4 year old grandson is now being tested for Autism Spectrum Disorder (Pervasive Developmental Disorders (PDDs)). My daughter was diagnosed ADD way back in 1971. So yeah - - lots of stuff going on that I follow in that area.

It's certainly important to note that the section on Pedos AND the whole family of disorders it's a part of mention nothing about Gays. Nada... Zip. I'm taking that to mean that Officialdom does not consider the two related for cause/effect either direction. Good news..on many levels..and I guess that answers what I had last page about studies done. At least it seems a real strong indicator of official Psych views on it.

Right. Neither the homosexual or heterosexual orientation has anything to do with pedophilia. Pedophilia is its own orientation (and I know there's a different name for those attracted to the teen years - - but let's keep it simple).

As for Pedophiles also being sexually active with adults here are three things to be considered:

1 - Social Cover-Up. As in 'Happily Married' sports coach.

2 - Easy Accessibility. As in Step-Father molesting Step-Child.

3 - Sublimation. As in Hooker playing 'The Naughty School Girl'.

Originally posted by magma
reply to post by Annee

 

Here is a link to a list that has been published of some of the offences.

It seems the organisation equates pedophiles to gay people

Something is very sinister and wrong with this organisations philosphy.

Thanks to Annee for the link

pedophiles = gay people

edit on 18-10-2012 by magma because: content

You also said you were not going to send your kid there. TKDRL pointed out it's not just the scouts, it's everywhere. This is true. You'd have to not send you kid even to school because there is a chance this might happen there. I'm willing to bet you a million dollars the vast majority of scoutmasters are straight moralistic people who would never hurt a child.

Male pedophiles who prey on boys Are gay. This is true. Yet there are pedophiles that are women who pray on girls - they are gay too. The have to be. Same sex crimes. Yet there are men and women pedophiles that prey on kids of the opposite sex. They are not gay, just sick in the head. Because the boyscouts are only for boys, and only allow male scoutmasters, their ideas about pedophiles = gays are true in their circumstances.

Originally posted by magma

US Boy Scout 'perversion files' released

www.news.com.au

LOCAL US Boy Scout leaders, police officials, prosecutors and mayors helped hush up numerous child sex abuse allegations against scoutmasters and other volunteers, according to details in a trove of nearly 15,000 pages of so-called "perversion files" compiled by the Scouts from 1959 to the mid-1980s.

(visit the link for the full news article)

I have to wonder if the Boy Scouts policy on no gay kids joining, is based off their experience of the gay kids being targeted more aggressively by pedophiles.. Or if blame was spread around to the child (assumed gay) and the adult causing the abuse. Its been theorized that the reason more homosexuals have experienced some sort of abuse is based off them being more vulnerable to seduction by a predator. Boy Scouts was very ahead of its time to even keep detailed reports blacklisting people from their organization. I wouldnt put it past them to use anti gay policies as a way to (to them) eliminate or reduce abuse.


I listened to the President of the BS on NPR today and he sounded like he was attempting to save face, but that he was genuine in wanting to protect the kids.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Annee

 

I disagree. There are straight pedophiles, gay pedophiles, and bi pedophiles. Same as "normal" sexuality goes, it's never as black and white as people like to make it out to be.

NO - - they are NOT.

A pedophile is a pedophile is a pedophile. Pedophile is the orientation.

The orientation Pedophile's attraction is children.

No matter what sex act they commit - - - it is a Pedophile committing the act - - - no matter what the act is.

I believe you are correct. Its not common for a Pedophile to bounce from an appropriately aged partner to a underage victim. They usually stick to a 'type'

Ice cream truck drivers are also known as pedifiles. Obviously, Not all ice cream truck driver are sexual offenders,.....

Originally posted by DENBY
The majority of Child molesters are Straight White Males usually in an authoritative postition. Some are gender specific some are not. The act is in and of itself a form of rape which by definition makes it not a sex crime but a crime of violence. IE: It is about using sex as a tool for power and control.

Parents take note - Tell your children if they are lost and need assistence Do NOT find a Policeman. Find a MOMMY.

Women are virtually never child molesters.

Sometimes ignorance shouldn't be left to manifest.

According to you "Straight White Males" make up the majority of child molesters.

What you fail to realise is that your conclusion is based on reported incidents of child molestation focusing on countries with White majorities. It does not take into account the hundreds of thousands of unreported cases that take place in non-white majority countries, especially those where arranged marriages between old men and young girls is culturally acceptable.

Have you ever stopped to realise that not all countries are as diligent as others when it comes to collecting data and formulating statistics in relation to the prevalence of crimes that take place within their borders?

reply to post by magma


hmmmmm, I am going to guess you believe that there is a pedophile gene? They are born that way?
I know of a street pastor in Oregon that preaches that homosexuality is perversion and corruption of the heart. That is called hate speech today , right?
He claims that if this is so, that is a corrupted heart, that if a man can do a man, he can do a child.

Now I am not going to say this is true or not. But I ask you this. How can you see this problem with crimes by male adults against male children something different than male homosexuals victimizing male children?

This arg brought by, lol annee, just betrays all logic and common sense.
How can any other conclusion be drawn from these facts in the case of the boy scouts?
It does not add up.
And the crazy part????????????
Most apologists here are blaming the boy scout program and the organization and giving a pass to the corrupt individuals that sought out these positions of power in groups like the boy scouts. It simply betrays logic.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Annee

 

Well yeah, really. How can you claim to know what you are talking about, if you have no experience?

15 years of interest - - - enough interest to actually spend time researching it and reading. An accumulation of information from years of interest and research and reading.

What is your experience?

And yet you criticize and demonize a very well known child psychologist that wrote many books and treated 10's if not hundreds of thousands of kids throughout his illustruous years, discounting his conclusions to prop your own"research" up as somehow "educated". Bottom line is you are biased in all your findings as they need to be, have to be skewed towards the results you predetermined because of your ideological basis that you yourself admit to. You remain "consistant", as you call it. Face it annee, you are no expert by anyones definition but your own and your own anecdotal evidence shows you completely failed as their lives are all in a shambles. But you have legal and psychological definitions to scapegoat the anecdotes, this is true. hey, but you definately do spend alot of time justifying your presuppositions, I give you that. You definately do that.