US Boy Scout 'perversion files' released

I don't know whats worse.

That this stuff happened.

Or that this stuff happened and we are just now hearing about it. Thats a pretty large gap in time.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix

Annee, why must you keep the two separated?

Perhaps you should take the time to read up on it.

It's not coming from me.

Annee wrote that in reply to this post:

Annee, why must you keep the two separated? Granted if an adult desires sex with a child thats One criteria that can define him - but it doesn't have to be the Only criteria that defines that person or the reasons why he chooses to have sex with children. A male pedophile that only desires boys does have a problem with desiring a child yes, but he also has the problem of targeting a boy ( a specific sexual gender). That means to me he has two specific criteria that defines him, desires a child, and homosexual tendencies.

I have read you say over and over again (i'm paraphrasing you) " pedophile is a pedophile is a pedophile and doesn't have anything to do with being gay." I submit to you - You don't know that. In many pedophile cases, this could very well be the case that they do desire children But only male children because they are also gay.

Please explain to me why you disagree with this.

I don't want to read up on it, I asked you to explain why you believe this way. You obviously hold to a certain opinion of this subject that you feel some source is correct on. Why do you believe this source when my reasoning above makes perfect sense. You won't deal with my reasoning so I feel you are coping out of the discussion. I'm surprised at you Annee. I thought you were above that. I also find it suspect that the very next thing you post is a post that seeks to change the subject.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by manna2

And yet you criticize and demonize a very well known child psychologist that wrote many books and treated 10's if not hundreds of thousands of kids throughout his illustruous years,

Link and name of child psychologist.

Other then that - - you know I do not respond to you. I won't play your bait game.

first your credentials.
Have you written any books on the subject?
Any papers?
Have you worked clinicaly with children?, pedophiles?

Anything you could call practical application of a knowledge base on the subject with said peoples?
ANYTHING?
Because I want to know if you have the right to criticize those that do, kapiche?

Wait... pedophilia in the boy scouts?! NO... really? Noooo.... REALLY? No..... Really? No....

reply to post by TKDRL


I'm having trouble understanding how this isn't making sense. I'm pretty sure what the poster was getting at was pedophiles are pedophiles. Some of them are gay. Some of them are straight. Some of them are "straight" pedophiles that do GAY things...some of them are "GAY" pedophiles that do straight things...if you are doing the math you could deduct that those would be "BISEXUAL" pedophiles....seems logical to me...

Regardless of interpretations of the concise meaning of the word Pedophile, the disgusting fact remains that a Christian organisation who is trusted and respected by many people throughout the world is actively engaging and covering up serious cases of child abuse.

Sometime we get so emtional and caught up in the moment that we lose site of the truth.

They have lost my support and I await with anticipation the next revelations that are brought to light from this insideous organisation.. I am also certain that there is other similar organisations out there doing the same things.

While you people argue over the semantics of the acts I will get things back on topic.

I am an Assistant Scoutmaster and I was a scout. We go through yearly training called "Youth Protection" to provide us guidelines to protect ourselves from false accusations as well as protect the Boys from ever being alone with a leader. Boys are not allowed to be alone with an adult (even a non leader) unless they are related. You can have more than one child and a single adult is transport situations but its still required that there be more than one adult for all activities.

Will this stop abuse?

No it will not. So what is the purpose of these rules and what is the purpose of the background checks and the "perversion files"?

To protect BSA from lawsuits.
BSA has ALOT of money and these rules protect the organization from the acts of people it cant control. There is no way that BSA can absolutly promise that its leaders will not be secretly horrible people. Just like your local school system cannot promise its teachers will not be secretly horrible people. No organization has the power to see into the hearts of its members and predict their future acts. Back before background checks the "perversion files" existed to hopefully prevent leaders of BSA getting in touble in one area and then moving to another area and being able to get back in as a leader although that apparently happened in some cases. These people cannot be identified by the way they look, there really is very little that can be done to eliminate the possibility of abuse.
Put yourself into the position of a BSA council leadership. If someone comes to you and tells you that a Scoutmaster may be acting a little funny around the kids is that enough to go to the police? Even if they come to you and tell you they just KNOW the scoutmaster has done something is that enough? If you are a council leader and you go to the police and lay accusations against a person you HAVE to have evidence. If all you have is a story then you could get sued yourself. Accusations against someone destroy them if they get into the legal system. Even if they are not true. Ask yourself this if all of these accusations were sufficent enough to warrant action then why did the parents of the victims not go to the police themselves? Nothing should have ever been reported to BSA leadership it should have gone right to the police.
I am a very big supporter of BSA and if this were to happen to my son while he was on a trip without me there would be two things that happen.
I would beat a confession out of the abuser and then we would drag his bloody carcass to the cops. There would never be a call to any BSA leadership. I dont need a District Executive to give me permission to report a crime.

Now I am not doubting that these files contain actual cases of abuse, I am just very curious what the evidence is and what the families of the victims expected BSA to do about them? BSA are not the police.

Just for futher information those of us within BSA are well aware of the potential for problems. My fellow troop leaders as well as other troop leaders that we know routinely watch the local crime blotters and arrest reports for the names of our Scout parents and fellow leaders.
For example. a few years ago we had a parent get a DUI. Now, those things happen and I am not judging him but we made sure that he never drove the boys anywhere.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
It's nothing but my own two cents as a proud former scout myself, but I hope this isn't used as some leverage to further attack the BSOA as a whole. What they did in denying the Eagle Scout candidate his rightful place of honor after SO MUCH done to earn it was absolutely and without question, WRONG. So too are these latest stories of abuse and molestation....if none of this was reported to the police (and within Statute of Limitation time frames of course). Heads need to roll. Absolutely.

Having given acknowledgement to some of the bad of the Scouts which needs addressed, I'd ALSO note there are millions of good men in this nation that owe a fair part of their solid character, integrity and personal sense of values to the Scouts, both Cub and Boy Scouts as they got older. I have an Eagle Scout in my own family, for some context, and for him it was one of the single proudest things about his life and accomplishments in it.

No free passes...NO easy rides or skates on what they've done wrong in this context, but attacking an organization with so many sides to it and which generally does one hell of a fine job of making boys into well rounded and skilled men seems wrong. Like I said to start, I just hope the focus is kept to those guilty and not the whole national organization for the multitudes of people that would hurt for no good reason.

There are always good people mucked up with the bad, and that is what upsets me. However, it can not be denied that the protection of children and the background checks for scoutmasters have been neglected in the past. Hopefully it's not nearly as bad as it once was, and I'm sure it isn't... but there are many people too ashamed or afraid to step forward and admit what happened to them.

However, I know a few eagle scouts, and they are proud upstanding citizens, and two joined the military along with me.