It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

It doesn't matter who you vote for, we are heading for collapse.

page: 1
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 03:39 PM
link   
So over the last few days and weeks Infowars seems to be reading my mind. I recently made a thread here about the lie that is governments unemployment reporting. Now Infowars has released another article that is parrots my opinions about how neither political candidate in this upcoming election is going to fix our problems and both will cause our downfall. Just read my signature.

Obama or Romney: War and Economic Collapse Regardless Who Wins the Election


In August, Peter Schiff, economic adviser to Ron Paul’s 2008 presidential campaign, said he thinks the economic implosion will occur during the next administration. He has no faith in Obama and little in Romney to turn things around.


I've been saying this for weeks now, however let's continue.


In September, according to official figures, the national debt surpassed $16 trillion. In reality, it is much higher – well over $200 trillion when unfunded liabilities from Medicare and Social Security are thrown into the mix.

“Let’s get real. The U.S. is bankrupt,” writes Boston University economic professor Laurence Kotlikoff.

Due to the astronomical debt and profligate spending by largely unaccountable professional political careerists in Washington, “what we have to look forward to is a very bleak future,” writes Michael Snyder. “Even if we totally scrapped our current monetary system and repudiated the debt, the transition would be ‘rocky’ at best and we would not enjoy anything close to the standard of living that we are enjoying today.”


Our debt is astronomical. However this little tidbit about it really being over $200 trillion is something that I was unaware of, and it is HIGHLY alarming. So let's take a look at each candidate and see some problems.

Romney:

As for war, a Romney win in November will ensure the re-installment of the Bush-era neocons and a speedy timeline for war in the Middle East, particularly against Syria and sooner before later Iran.

Because the election is a couple of weeks away, Romney’s saying there’s no need to attack Iran in response to its imaginary nuclear weapons program. His foreign policy advisers, on the other hand, are neocons who have repeatedly called for taking out Iran.

More frightening, Romney is close friends with Israel’s ardent Likudnik, Benjamin Netanyahu, and Mitt has stated that they “almost speak in shorthand.”

Martin S. Indyk, a United States ambassador to Israel in the Clinton administration, told the New York Times that Romney would “subcontract Middle East policy to Israel,” i.e., the U.S. will attack Israel’s enemies during the reign of Mitt.

In other words, if Romney wins we can expect an attack on Iran that would certainly compound the above mentioned economic problems.


Obama:

Following Obama’s lackluster performance during the last presidential debate, his administration trotted out what can be described as “Iran Attack Light,” a plan to use “surgical strikes” against the country in lieu of an all-out attack.

Foreign Policy CEO and editor at large David Rothkopf, a former Clintonite, “reported that the White House and Israeli officials ‘assert that the two sides, behind the scenes, have come closer together in their views [regarding Iran] in recent days,’” according to the Jerusalem Post.


And to make matters worse here is what the media is reporting:

Bizarrely, the establishment media continues to pretend there is a widening chasm of difference between Obama and Romney. In fact, they both present the same economic and foreign policy goals, which are, of course, not their goals but those of the global elite.

The establishment media does its part by playing up minor differences in style between the two and uses a trusty false left-right paradigm to distract weary voters and excite indoctrinated loyalists.


This is all truly disappointing and shows that neither Obama nor Romney are the answers we are looking for towards our vast amount of problems. Stop defending these con-men and start looking for people who actually care about us the middle-class instead of the rich elite. I know the voice you have isn't very loud or strong, but it can become a roar if we combine everyone's voices. Vote independent 2012 if you intend to vote. We should band together and show these guys that we are fed up with this nonsense. Or you can keep letting them pull the wool over your eyes and tow your partisan line and let this country burn.




posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 03:43 PM
link   
reply to post by Krazysh0t
 


Some times you have a problem, and that problem is solveable.

But sometimes it can not be solved.

If you have fallen from a 30 story building and you are in the air....Is there a realistic solution for this problem?

I will say NO. You can only choose if you want to take the hit with the legs or headfirst.

This can be compared to the economic "problem" we face today.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 03:52 PM
link   
Collapse isn't something that happens overnight. It takes a long time for an empire to go out. War on anything but a regional scale is impossible. It's simply in nobody's interest for that to happen. I don't care if the NWO crowd believes otherwise. If a world government was planned, it simply ain't happening in the 21st century.

You're correct that the collapse is inevitable, but he degree is not yet realized or known. It's been going on for at least the last few years, and baring a game changer, will continue on. The poor will continue to suffer. The middle class will continue to project their insecurities by means of arrogance. The rich will continue their sycophantic drivel. The elite will continue to thin the herd, grinning and all...



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 04:14 PM
link   
reply to post by moniesisfun
 


Well if you combine what we are seeing in Europe, particularly Greece and Spain, with what is going on here it is easy to infer the likely scale to which this collapse is going to be. It will be unprecedented. We may even be sent back socially to the middle ages. Mass war may not be feasible currently, but what do you think will happen when a majority of the people in the western world are unable to feed their families? They will riot and revolt. The first people they will look for are going to be the rich elite that put them into this situation. However the elite aren't dumb as soon as the collapse happens they will hightail it out of the country to safer shores.

Now with no one left to direct their anger towards, the rioters will turn on each other and will tear each other apart. We will be facing death and destruction on a scale of which we have never seen before. Now all we need to make the situation worse is that a country such as China or Russia sees us as finally weak and decides to pay us back for our overextended military presence around the world.

What's unnerving the most for me is that this sounds like the plot of some wild fiction book, however it is most likely all going to happen. I'll withhold judgement on the whole China/Russia thing I just said because that is just a theory in my head, but the other stuff is highly likely to happen.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 04:17 PM
link   
reply to post by Henassy
 


Or you could try everything in your power to try to stop your fall. Maybe try to angle towards a canopy to break your fall or grab a window sill. The odds of success may be impossibly low, but I'd rather try then just accept my fate and just roll over and die.
edit on 16-10-2012 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 04:27 PM
link   

Originally posted by Krazysh0t
reply to post by moniesisfun
 


Well if you combine what we are seeing in Europe, particularly Greece and Spain, with what is going on here it is easy to infer the likely scale to which this collapse is going to be. It will be unprecedented. We may even be sent back socially to the middle ages.


I call BS. You've bought into a lot of hooey. An unprecedented collapse...historically
Are you seriously so uneducated?


Mass war may not be feasible currently, but what do you think will happen when a majority of the people in the western world are unable to feed their families? They will riot and revolt.


Here's the thing. However stupid you think the elite are, they're just not. Those with high sphere's of influence may not care for collapsing a country, but the whole of a civilization?? It's not in their interest. Where would they run and hide to? This is a culling of the herd. Once the people truly are ticked, they will give the people some more. Look what happened in Saudi Arabia recently. The royals gave out what...130 billion to the plebs to keep their heads attached to their bodies. To think it won't happen before the SHTF for reals, is fallacy.


The first people they will look for are going to be the rich elite that put them into this situation. However the elite aren't dumb as soon as the collapse happens they will hightail it out of the country to safer shores.


Collapse is realized as a lowering of standards. That's been going on for some time.


Now with no one left to direct their anger towards, the rioters will turn on each other and will tear each other apart. We will be facing death and destruction on a scale of which we have never seen before.


So many reasons why this will never happen. First, because it already has in history, over and over again...second, because game changers have been put in place since the last time it happened. The internet alone ensures this is impossible. Just think about it for a bit. Don't tell me they have a kill switch, you can't undo tech that has already been introduced in the 21st century. We're far too powerful at this point with our ideas and creativity.


Now all we need to make the situation worse is that a country such as China or Russia sees us as finally weak and decides to pay us back for our overextended military presence around the world.


Lala land, uneducated drivel. China can barely keep their people from revolting. This alone proves a NWO one world government can never happen again. Russia doesn't stand a chance in hell against us. We're not weak, we're simply being weakened by global pangs in awareness...it's a transitional process. Everyone is taking the hit right now, but eventually the tensions give way to growth.


What's unnerving the most for me is that this sounds like the plot of some wild fiction book, however it is most likely all going to happen. I'll withhold judgement on the whole China/Russia thing I just said because that is just a theory in my head, but the other stuff is highly likely to happen.


Naw, it's really not. I've been thinking this all through for thousands of hours, kid. It will likely get worse before it gets better, but in reality some things are getting incredibly better day by day! Just keep your cool, and have a never ending supply of persistence towards progress. As we change our intervals and scales in time, one could truly say: it's only going to get better from here on out.


edit on 16-10-2012 by moniesisfun because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 04:47 PM
link   
reply to post by moniesisfun
 


How is the government going to throw money at a problem if the money has been so hyperinflated that you need a wheelbarrow to buy groceries? QE3 will lead to hyperinflation

Ok you can argue that the money will just go overseas to other countries like China, but how about this bit of information:

Brazil and Argentina abandon dollar
Russia and Iran trade in Rian and Ruble
China and Japan to trade in Yuan

So all these countries have already started to trade in their own respective currencies and drop the almighty petro-dollar and I'm sure they aren't all of them or the last of them. So now when all this money that the FED is injecting into the economy goes overseas and isn't spent, it will ultimately come back home and find its way into American's pockets

Say what you want, but everything I've been seeing and reading is surely pointing towards a worldwide collapse. Now I never mentioned NWO in any of my posts, but if you want to bring that up, it would make the most sense that an NWO would have to tear down the current system to implement their new system.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 04:54 PM
link   
reply to post by Krazysh0t
 


Kid, this is irrelevant. The scale of collapse you're talking about would take so much more than a decline in the petro-dolars usage worldwide, it's not even worth debating with some random guy on the internet.

I see people, ideas, values, & virtues being trampled by financial monstrosities.

You are unwittingly pushing that which is not only inevitable, but holding our species back.

Let the currencies find their true value. Allow our armies to be forced closer to our shores.

What the hell of it


Maybe we'll start implementing more sane policies and standards for how we culture our food, and bellies.

Maybe we'll curb the growing trends in obesity, diabetes, and cardiovascular disease.

Perhaps this can give way to an offsetting of global climate disruption, and leverage our capacities to innovate our way out of this messed environment.

Problems are but solutions in disguise.


edit on 16-10-2012 by moniesisfun because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 04:56 PM
link   
reply to post by Krazysh0t
 


Obama...steady growth, but not the bubble and and following pop of a GOP economy...

Romney..double dip recession in 3 years...rapid bubble n pop that won't reach the middle class since we don't have the resources for a larger/longer bubble n pop...

Romney would be more the dot.com bubble n collapse of 2001/2002 for those making 150k-300k ....In other words the 2% have already squeezed the middle and lower classes dry through fraud and bailouts..a Romney economy would look to squeeze the upper-middle class since they have money left and the 2% need to keep transfering that wealth! Not to say they wouldn't bleed those making less than 150K for whatever they have left as well.

Either way economic apocolypse?...no. Americans are a resilent bunch and we get the chance to shake things up every 4 years.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 05:00 PM
link   
reply to post by moniesisfun
 


You know I am getting tired of you calling me a kid or assuming things about my opinion like putting words in my mouth about the NWO in my first two posts. I'm trying to have an intelligent conversation with you, haven't resorted to any insults, and yet you keep resorting to belittling me every time you post. Until you offer up an apology and act like the adult that you are trying to position yourself as, I am done talking to you.
edit on 16-10-2012 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 05:08 PM
link   
reply to post by Indigo5
 


Steady growth like that misrepresentation of the unemployment rates a few weeks ago?

Skewed Unemployment

Or the fact that one of the major reasons the UE is so low right now is because of some 580k new part time workers?
UE 7.8%

Of course you can always just go look at my thread on the UE figures that I posted in my OP.



posted on Oct, 16 2012 @ 05:27 PM
link   
While this thread is attempting to discuss a valid item of discussion, I am reminded that such a cerebral and thought provoking matter is most likely too cerebral for the typical masses who actually think their votes count and that actually think here is a real difference between both parties.

While I am not stating that both parties are the same, any decisions made by the candidates is not their own. The decisions made by politicians in high office are always guided and controlled by those that control the puppets in office.

This is why I see no "BIG" difference between the Democrats and the Republicans other than to say that I see both parties as part of the problem because the Democrats represent Zionist Marxism and the Republicans represent Zionist Fascism.

Take your pick, but it has to be a Zionist candidate that wins the presidency, for Zionist control both candidates with large sums of money and while the public thinks we actually determine with our votes who wins and leads this nation, we do not and have not for some time now.

This is what I refer to when I say there is really no big difference in either party or either candidate, because both adhere to a Zionist ideology that places control of everything into the hands of Zionism at the expense of the public no matter what party is in office and no matter if it harms the public or not.

The Bill of Rights and or the Constitution is just an obstacle that Zionist will never adhere to unless it helps them win a position that favors their quest for complete "control" of the planet and all of earths resources. They only use the existing laws of this nation to help themselves, but are always steady changing and violating the laws of this nation just to benefit themselves and no one else.

This is why neither party truly represents the people any longer. Both parties represent Zionism. We have Marxist left Democrats and a Fascist right Republicans. Take your pick, but it must be a Zionist candidate or none at all.

This is of course, why Ron Paul did not fit the Zionist's plans for their future, for he wanted to end wars and anyone that hinders the profits that Zionist demand will never sit in the White House.

What a corrupt Zionist system indeed and if a financial collapse does occur, which I feel it will, you can bet it will ocurr to the timing and the benefit of Zionist alone. Thanks for the thread.



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 05:24 AM
link   
reply to post by Krazysh0t
 


I guess you never heard the old expression it really doesn't matter how many times you fall down as long as you get back up. We have lived through collapse before and emerged out the other side of it much better for the knowledge.



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 05:27 AM
link   

Originally posted by Krazysh0t
reply to post by moniesisfun
 


You know I am getting tired of you calling me a kid or assuming things about my opinion like putting words in my mouth about the NWO in my first two posts. I'm trying to have an intelligent conversation with you, haven't resorted to any insults, and yet you keep resorting to belittling me every time you post. Until you offer up an apology and act like the adult that you are trying to position yourself as, I am done talking to you.
edit on 16-10-2012 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



When you have a thread that barely is going to stretch to page 2, you should entertain and respect the opinion of anyone that cares enough about your topic, pro or con, to come along and comment. These are your people. Make the best of them, keep them talking... or this thing is going to die right here where you started.






edit on 17-10-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 09:35 AM
link   
reply to post by newcovenant
 


So you think I should tolerate being talked down to all for the sake of keeling my thread alive? Sorry I don't like to put up with that nonsense. Didn't liks it it high school, hated when it happened in the army, and I really hate it when politicians do it. So what makes you think I'd put up with it here? I don't care about stars and flags. I appreciate them when received. But I value getting my message out more and understand that not everyone will agree with mebut I want to have my opinion respected just as much as I respect your desire to disagree. Also I'm an adult and want to be treated as such. It's not like I'm using text talk, I'm trying to use good grammar but sometimes I'm using my cell phone to post and mistakes happen. If this means that my thread has to die then so be it. You have to be able to stand up for your principals.

Now back on topic. You mention how we are used to falling and getting back up. This is true, humanity's past is filled with these events. However I'd like to bring to your attention the fall of the Western Roman Empire in 1000 ad. It took humanity over 400 years to start to climb out of that intellectual black hole. So while I think that in the long run we should be fine (unless we annihilate ourselves with nuclear weapons) I'd rather not wait half a millennium to come out better. The collapse we are looking at could be even worse than this one since it could potentially effect the whole world. We should really take notice of what our leaders are doing and actually start objecting to it louder than ever



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 09:44 AM
link   

Originally posted by Krazysh0t
reply to post by newcovenant
 


So you think I should tolerate being talked down to all for the sake of keeling my thread alive? Sorry I don't like to put up with that nonsense. Didn't liks it it high school, hated when it happened in the army, and I really hate it when politicians do it. So what makes you think I'd put up with it here? I don't care about stars and flags. I appreciate them when received. But I value getting my message out more and understand that not everyone will agree with mebut I want to have my opinion respected just as much as I respect your desire to disagree. Also I'm an adult and want to be treated as such. It's not like I'm using text talk, I'm trying to use good grammar but sometimes I'm using my cell phone to post and mistakes happen. If this means that my thread has to die then so be it. You have to be able to stand up for your principals.

Now back on topic. You mention how we are used to falling and getting back up. This is true, humanity's past is filled with these events. However I'd like to bring to your attention the fall of the Western Roman Empire in 1000 ad. It took humanity over 400 years to start to climb out of that intellectual black hole. So while I think that in the long run we should be fine (unless we annihilate ourselves with nuclear weapons) I'd rather not wait half a millennium to come out better. The collapse we are looking at could be even worse than this one since it could potentially effect the whole world. We should really take notice of what our leaders are doing and actually start objecting to it louder than ever



Nobody is talking down to you. It's called conversation and it takes many forms. You want to have your pride out there before every fall that's your business. So I think.

What our leaders are doing is shouting to get noticed so that we elect them. We should notice what secret organizations and cabals that have nothing to do with either the people or government have to do with running the country and stop it. Instead of voting on characters we should take a vote on what we want accomplished, then prioritize that list, and finally just go down it, getting things done.
edit on 17-10-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 10:46 AM
link   
reply to post by newcovenant
 


Well let's start with the problem of our MASSIVE debt that is about to collapse our economy with its shear weight. Here is a link that someone messaged me U2U (I'm going to keep his name annonymous because he doesn't want to talk about politics at this point) that shows a good visualization of some of the major countries in the world's debt. Visualize the Debt

At the bottom of the page are more good visuals of different debt and money scenarios. I suggest also looking at the the Fed's QE3 visualization and bottomless pit as well.
edit on 17-10-2012 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-10-2012 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 10:55 AM
link   
Because of the weakness from a certain individual in this thread, I will address the points raised within it, rather than any one individual.

People are mindlessly talking out of context.

It matters not how scary a huge number seems to be, it only has value when context is given. The more points of reference, the more validity it holds.

Take our national debt. Trillion is oh such a large number, but you know what?? we're the third most populated nation in the world. Of course our GDP and debt will seem ginormous.

Talking about the GDP, what is our debt to GDP


What is that ratio, compared to other nations


What is our rate of accumulation of Debt/GDP, compared to other nations


You see, when you really stop to look at the statistics for what it is, you realize fear mongers shape the context to fit a preconceived notion.


edit on 17-10-2012 by moniesisfun because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 01:30 PM
link   

Originally posted by Krazysh0t
reply to post by newcovenant
 


Well let's start with the problem of our MASSIVE debt that is about to collapse our economy with its shear weight. Here is a link that someone messaged me U2U (I'm going to keep his name annonymous because he doesn't want to talk about politics at this point) that shows a good visualization of some of the major countries in the world's debt. Visualize the Debt

At the bottom of the page are more good visuals of different debt and money scenarios. I suggest also looking at the the Fed's QE3 visualization and bottomless pit as well.
edit on 17-10-2012 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-10-2012 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



You know Reagan had annual deficits of over a billion dollars and left us 7 trillion in debt?



posted on Oct, 17 2012 @ 01:32 PM
link   
reply to post by Krazysh0t
 


Our government can't pull a rabbit out of the hat if there is not a real rabbit in the hat
They can create green paper bunnies though, all lined up on a sheet.




top topics



 
4
<<   2 >>

log in

join