Born again... and again?

reply to post by Akragon


Born again means to die to what you 'think' you know. Be born each moment and die to the last, be ever fresh and clean.
Humans carry around their past and it weighs them down. Know only this moment and you will be free of mind made suffering. The weight will drop away and lightness will be experienced.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


If you drop the past then how would you ever grow as a person? How would you learn from past mistakes if you just choose to ignore the past? Your idea is good in theory but wouldn't hold up in the real world.

I totally get and understand what you mean though.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Go in one side of the door, and out the other and find pasture, he is not talking about reincarnation. Once you step through that door its a done deal. It's about going forward not backward. If you reincarnate you go backward into the world of sin, and that has never been what G]od is about.

Well for one.... a person doesn't go in a door and out the other side.... thats a little silly... Theres in the door and outside of the door... so i don't agree with your inturpretation here...

Secondly.... show me where it says you can't return to the physical after you die?

Especially considering the verse in the OP... "Those that go to heaven have already been there"...

No such thing as reincarnation.

Says you....

Considering i know you study the bible.... why are you using Hebrews 9 to reject reincarnation when it has absolutely nothing to do with that topic... That chapter is about Whither or not Jesus had to die more then once for the sins of man... NOT reincarnation. Read the entire chapter in context... don't cherry pick off of some christian website

Scripture fail

Genesis 3:19

19 In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
Till you return to the ground,
For out of it you were taken;
For dust you are,
And to dust you shall return.”

Isn't the body more then just meat?

We already covered that passage on a previous page... And hebrews 9 for that matter..

Perhaps you might catch up a bit?

Who is the living Word? The Torah made flesh?

Haha.... Jesus was NOT the torah made flesh... That is complete fabrication...

What church are you a part of again? I forget...

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Grow as a person? Into what? You are looking in time for what you already are. You want to 'become' when you are 'being'.
The search in time for something is what prevents people from understanding the teachings of Christ and Buddha.
Only when you stop seeking to become will you be fulfilled. The pain humans feel is lack, they feel they are missing something. They seek everywhere but right here and now, the only time and place that can be known to exist.
When the mind is silent this will be understood.
This is the kingdom but humans cannot see or hear what is here. They are off somewhere else in fantasy land, on the stage in the mind.

near-death.com...

This defense of the doctrine of reincarnation as an important part of the Judeo-Christian religion leads to the following conclusions:

1.
The religious concept of a massive worldwide reanimation of corpses at the end of time is a foreign concept originating from ancient Persia.
2.
A massive worldwide reanimation of corpses seems bizarre, unnatural, and repulsive.
3.
The few instances recorded in the Bible where corpses were reanimated were miracles. Doctors today bring people back from the dead with modern technology.
4.
Reincarnation was widely believed by the people of Israel in the days of Jesus and by people all around the world.
5.
All Hebrew and Christian scriptures support reincarnation: the Bible, the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Christian Gnostic gospels, the Torah, the Hebrew Bible, the Apocrypha, the Kabbalah and Zohar.
6.
Many of the Biblical references to "resurrection" refer to spiritual regeneration while already physically alive instead of the reanimation of corpses on the so-called "Last Day."
7.
Reincarnation is the rebirth of a person's spirit into a new body to be born again as an infant. Resurrection is the "spiritual awakening" of a living person's spirit by the power of the Holy Spirit.
8.
The Bible records Jesus himself teaching reincarnation to his followers.
9.
Early Christians in Jerusalem believed in reincarnation and taught it until it was declared a heresy by the Church of Rome.
10.
Reincarnation has been a tenet in Orthodox Judaism for thousands of years and continues to this day.
11.
The concept of reincarnation is supported by many near-death experiences including those where Jesus appears.
12.
Reincarnation is a doctrine which can be accepted by every follower of Christ and should be a part of orthodox Christian doctrine.

History holds that reincarnation is a firm belief with pre-historic roots. It has survived. The Bible supports it.

What I don't get is why Christians feel this is SO THREATENING!!

reply to post by wildtimes


It is threatening to them because it goes against everything they were taught while growing up. To admit reincarnation exists is to admit they have been living and believing a lie, an illusion. That's very threatening indeed.

They also think that if they even entertain the idea of reincarnation they would be going against what they have been taught.

To go against what they have been taught means what? It means that Satan has a special spot in hell for them and they don't want to go to hell because it scares them. Their fear of hell completely overrides their ability to think logically.

That's my guess.

reply to post by wildtimes

What I don't get is why Christians feel this is SO THREATENING!!

Its threatening because it is considered a heresy by their churches... and they are afraid to say or do anything the church frowns upon.

Perhaps they're still afraid of being burned at the stake like they did to heretics back in the day?

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

reply to post by Akragon


Will it make any difference if they realize that Zoroastrianism is the source of their beliefs, NOT CHRISTIANITY?
Or that it was the Persians who came up with the idea of the dead all waking up on judgment day?

In my opinion, there is no conflict between Christ and reincarnation. And who would be upset to learn that they WILL get another chance?

EDIT: Sheesh. No wonder the RC Church didn't allow the "sheep" to read the Bible on their own, or come to any conclusions without their priest's affirmation!

reply to post by wildtimes


There's no conflict between reincarnation and Christ for sure, where the conflict lies is in the church and the stranglehold they have on their followers.

It's easier to control people when you make them believe they only have one shot at life.

reply to post by wildtimes


I actually have a theory...

I believe all signs of reincarnation were removed from the bible, but the church wasn't expecting to have missed tons of references and allusions to it. Thank God for the internet

The church attempted to remove all traces of it because IF people knew they had more then one chance at life... they would completely lose all of their control over the populous.

IF you only have one chance, and the church has the keys to "heaven" then you best listen to what they say, or of course you'll burn in hell...

Just like most everything else that comes from the churches of Christianity... its all about control... not freedom as they advertise

reply to post by Akragon


I think you hit the nail on the head here.

reply to post by Akragon

but the church wasn't expecting to have missed tons of references and allusions to it.

"No one expects the Spanish Inqui--------"
*coughs* internet!


Woe to the days of the power to suppress information. Alas. It languishes, and soon, will die.
AMEN.

You know...
It was a long time ago, as a little girl, though I'd been baptized and indocrinated to the Episcopal faith....that it occurred to me that Reincarnation was probable, that we come back over and over until we get it right.....
and then we can go "home."

At that time, I'd had NO EXPOSURE to other-than-Episcopal spiritual teachings. I'd been kneeling and asking for forgiveness and admitting I was a loser since before I can remember....
how does that notion of Reincarnation pop into a child's mind? Out of seeming "nowhere"? I always knew I didn't believe the "resurrection" story.

Ever.

Not for one minute of one day.

Since then, I've had many experiences, done immeasurable research into the idea, and 40 years later, it STILL makes the most sense to me.

But, that's just me.

EDIT: I had just posted the source and extext, but, I'm expected to offer some personal thoughts for ATS.
All over the WORLD, people are STILL researching and talking about this.

Evidence for Reincarnation from Western Medical Research: (Part I) Dr. Wambach's Past Life Regression Studies

Author: Qing Di.

Does reincarnation exist after all? Scientific data collected as of date seems to suggest that reincarnation is a fact of life. Here are some supporting pieces of evidence:

1) Scientific research has discovered many cases of prior life memory recollections among young children. These recalls were studied, categorized and confirmed through rigorous research.

2) Details that subjects recalled about their prior lives correspond to historical records. Furthermore, there was great consistency among prior life recollections of the same time periods and geographical areas.

3) Subjects recalled ancient languages and words that they did not learn during this lifetime. Furthermore, after the hypnotic state ended they no longer could speak or understand those languages.

4) Some subjects among relatives, friends, or even strangers, recalled the same people, events and details independently.

5) Recalling past lives' agonies and events were instrumental in addressing and often alleviating today's ills and problems, such as terror and long-time pain.

It is very difficult to explain these phenomena as illusions. But they may not be readily accepted by modern science as evidence for the concept of reincarnation.

II. Some readers from mainland China might ask: did these researchers cheat? I ask the indulgence and understanding of these researchers. China at this time is in denial about all data has not already been proven with modern science. Thus, a more detailed explanation for the Chinese reader is necessary.

1) These researchers are well known and respected in their academic fields. For example, Dr. Ian Stevenson, M.D., Professor of Research at the University of Virginia (UVA), Department of Psychiatric Medicine and Division of Personality Studies (DOPS) is prominent in his field of study, which includes the study of reincarnation. He is famous for studying past life recollections of children for more than 36 years.

2) These researchers gain nothing from fabricating such data. Publishing data on reincarnation will not get them promotions. On the contrary, publication on such controversial subjects may lead to being ostracized by their peers or it could have a negative effect on their careers.

3) Whether their data supports or denies reincarnation, their research breaks through into a previously taboo subject matter. Actually, since reincarnation is not accepted in western culture, denying reincarnation maybe more beneficial to them. [

reply to post by wildtimes

What I don't get is why Christians feel this is SO THREATENING!!

Why would Christians consider it threatening?

It's no sweat off our back either way.

We're just offering up the Biblical side of the argument for those who aren't familiar with the Biblical view.

reply to post by Deetermined


I think you're confusing "biblical" with "Pauline". The idea of salvation through believing Jesus died on the cross was introduced by Paul who was a Pharisee and a Roman who persecuted earlier followers of Jesus.

It amazes me that the whole ideology of Christendom was presented by a christian persecutor yet Christians still gobble it up like cake.

You honestly see no problem with Paul killing true Christians then all of a sudden getting a visit from the dead Jesus after-the-fact? That doesn't even seem just a little bit fishy to you?

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by Deetermined

 

I think you're confusing "biblical" with "Pauline". The idea of salvation through believing Jesus died on the cross was introduced by Paul who was a Pharisee and a Roman who persecuted earlier followers of Jesus.

It amazes me that the whole ideology of Christendom was presented by a christian persecutor yet Christians still gobble it up like cake.

You honestly see no problem with Paul killing true Christians then all of a sudden getting a visit from the dead Jesus after-the-fact? That doesn't even seem just a little bit fishy to you?

Whatever you think it is, none of it includes reincarnation.

No, it wasn't the "dead Jesus" who visited Paul. It was the Holy Spirit. There's a difference, but it's obvious that most don't know what it is.

Regardless of whether or not you want to believe that Jesus died on the cross for everyone's sins, the fact is that he died on a cross, he said he did it bring eternal life, and the fact remains that he told everyone to repent.

I've already posted the verses showing what Jesus himself said to believe.

reply to post by Deetermined


Technically he was nailed to a "stake" not a cross... "stavros" means stake... Not cross

reply to post by Akragon


The fact remains that he said he laid down his life for his sheep so that they would have eternal life.

Akragon

I have to start of with I'm not a religious person never have been and Ive never even opened a bible to read these verses everyone seems to know so well in here..

But i have thought on reincarnation a bit because I'm terminally sick and i think people in my place think about this kinda thing more then most..

I'm not big on this idea of Heaven..I'm not sure what I believe happens when we die..

Maybe something between absolute nothingness and some kind of transfer of energy—not necessarily out-and-out reincarnation, but something along the lines of seeing that spark of energy that we all have..

I think this all runs through us all like so many connecting filaments, re-emerge as a flower, tree, fish, bird, or, yes, another human.

I think every single thing in our universe shares energy, that we all, and everything, are floating together in an ocean of energy, and that there's a constant re-shaping and re-aligning of that energy, just like the way waves move across the ocean's surface..

Things are in constant motion in the ocean, they get jostled and uprooted and re-settled, they die and decompose and "come back", so to speak, by feeding other organisms or by being absorbed by the ocean itself...

Being in the presence of God i don't think so..Then i see people talking about locked memory's that sounds somewhat reasonable..

"pre-existance" i don't believe that either there is no reason for me to believe that reincarnation might exist id like to think it does but to me its one big fairy tale sorta like the bible handed down from word of mouth..

Id like to imagine a world where people actually help one another rather than try and take advantage of one another..

But to me if there is a heaven it should be whatever you have always dreamed and wished for. Heaven should be whatever is best for you, not what others have told you, that you would get if you behave and do what is right..

I don't know what the reality of life after death is when i was a kid my parents told me I'm going to heaven and be greeted by angels and play on clouds and eat candy all day and life will be beautiful..

When i got older the story changed ..It went to if you do things your not suppose to you go to hell and burn forever only the good people get into heaven and God will be there to greet you and his angels and he will give you some tests to see if your going to stay...

If you don't pass those test your going right to hell so i always tried to be on my best behavior..But when i became an adult my thinking changed maybe just maybe when we die we just die there is nothing else you just become part of the earth and there is nothing more..peace,sugarcookie1..sorry if i went a bit off topic..