The son of man on the cloud in Revelations 14:14?

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


So, in your opinion, who is the "ONE sat like unto the Son of man" on the cloud wearing a crown?

Michael the Archangel?

reply to post by ahnggk

John may have been given a fast-forward peek of the Earth from space, witnessing the Earth change from lush green, to gradual change through city building and industrialization. All man-mad activity will indeed resemble a grape vine spreading gradually!

Interesting point.
Given the bizarre nature of his visions involving beasts and dragons and what not, one can only guess as to what he actually saw. The problem is, there is no one single way to interpret his visions.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

Again, I'm not suggesting that Jesus is the son of man in the cloud.
Just that many christians understand him to be Jesus.... (See the links I provided earlier)
and yet they all miss the fact that an angel tells him what to do next.

It really doesn't tell. What do you think would have John said if you flew him all the way to the full view of our galaxy? He would have beheld a wondrous view and would have probably did the best he could to describe the spectacle.

But really is not important.

According to latter verses, it is said the Angel, NOT only gathered the clusters of grapes but also the vine with it.

This symbolizes worldly men and women as the grapes and all the works of men as the vine.

Most Christians are under the spell of the world through the Gospel of the Antichrist which teaches God satisfies both the Spirit and the Flesh. Get out of it now before it's too late!

Originally posted by Deetermined
So, in your opinion, who is the "ONE sat like unto the Son of man" on the cloud wearing a crown?

Michael the Archangel?

Could simply be the galactic center.

See artist's rendering of our own galaxy:

upload.wikimedia.org...

Around the central region indeed glows yellow due to the old main sequence stars being the majority of their population.

The image does resemble the top view of someone wearing a gold crown and wielding a sickle. The Earth is now within one of those 'sickle'

In my own experience regarding visions of heavenly bodies or celestial events, God shows the celestial feature but He only speaks of the outcome and it's relevance to Earth/Solar System. He doesn't tell, "that is a planetary nebula, that is a galaxy"

In one vision, I was shown the Sun erupting/dying into a planetary nebula.... ....But I didn't figured it out until I saw pictures from Hubble Space Telescope of actual planetary nebulas, one which exactly matched that of my vision in feature and colors.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Lets break it down..
1. A "son of man" appears.
2. An angel appears.
3. The angel instructs the son of man to do something.
4. The son of man does as he is told.

An angel will never give a command to Brother, as he sits higher than the angels. That would be equivalent to one of the soldiers giving a command to Michael, it is outside of the order, and will not happen.

The only one who would give an order to Brother and he follows is Father.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

So, in your opinion, who is the "ONE sat like unto the Son of man" on the cloud wearing a crown?

Michael the Archangel?

Michael would only take an order from the Chief Angel and that is "The Arc", and that is only when Father is not around to give said orders. Also, they do not wear crowns, it looks like a crown, but it is (translating into human terms), an aurora of light that sits right a top of their heads.

Okay, just read this thread through.

Here's what occurs to me:
Has anyone ever considered that perhaps the "author" John was
A) having a gnostic (Essene-type-trance) vision after taking some "medicine"
or
B) he was simply stark raving mad?

I don't mean to be rude, here, but what if the Apostles and Disciples were all "fringe loonies" just like today's New-Age mystics and gnostics are thought to be? Or like the Hari Krishna airport trolls were once deemed? They (the followers of Christ) were derided, definitely; by those who were "mainstream"; they followed Jesus around (a reminiscent scene is Forrest Gump's RUNnINg followers) not quite even sure what he was talking about, but fascinated.

If someone tries nowadays to say "I had this vision", they are almost automatically thought to be hallucinating, unbalanced, lying, very ill/delirious, having a psychotic break, seeking attention (inappropriately), or manipulating others.

Just my first-response to the thread. Also, I don't know how tall the Mount is, but clouds DO often hover BELOW the summit of mountains.

Not trying to make trouble, these are just the thoughts that came to me in reading through.
s/f, OP

reply to post by wildtimes

If someone tries nowadays to say "I had this vision", they are almost automatically thought to be hallucinating, unbalanced, lying, very ill/delirious, having a psychotic break, seeking attention (inappropriately), or manipulating others.

Interesting point. But, yet the same ones will believe others who have gone on.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by DISRAELI

 

The purpose of the book is not to provide a detailed future history, but to provide encouragement to the church in time of crisis.,

Fair enough, but then your earlier statement about how it was all a play-like method to get users to understand things doesn't hold.

Yes it does, the two things hang together very well.
The purpose of Revelation is to encourage and motivate the church,as I said.
This is accomplished by using metaphorical images and little dramas to present a message,as I said, and the gist of the message is;
"There will be trouble ahead in the form of persecution, but in the end God will deal with it".
The image-metaphor of the "harvesting" is part of the point about God dealing with the source of the trouble.

reply to post by jhill76

Sorry, jhill....not getting your meaning (as per usual).
The same who will still what?

reply to post by DISRAELI

"There will be trouble ahead in the form of persecution, but in the end God will deal with it".

There has ALWAYS been trouble and persecution. Still no "end" in sight. And no God apparently giving it priority and "dealing with it."

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by jhill76

 

Sorry, jhill....not getting your meaning (as per usual).

The same who will still what?

Many won't take the word of another today who has a vision of above, or what is to come. But, these same people will believe word for word of others who have died and had said vision.

They claim, well the Spirit is leading me to these truths. If that was the case, if the Spirit is truly leading you, why is there so many divisions in Christianity or even here on these boards?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

So, in your opinion, who is the "ONE sat like unto the Son of man" on the cloud wearing a crown?

Michael the Archangel?

I don't know who it is, but it ain't Jesus because he's on Mt. Zion with the 144k when that goes down. Could be another angel. As i said before they look just like men. Except for Serpahim and Cherubim. The whole sickle and reaping thing appears to be death happening as God's wrath is poured out as Armageddon looms on the horizon.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

You quote 14-16, but right here in the very first verse Jesus is standing on Mt. Zion, all this other stuff is going on at that same time. The 144k are the firstfruits, the first reaping of the harvest.

Again, I'm not suggesting that Jesus is the son of man in the cloud.
Just that many christians understand him to be Jesus.... (See the links I provided earlier)
and yet they all miss the fact that an angel tells him what to do next.

All, I've learned is that Christians are divided on this. Some say it is Jesus, some say it isn't.

Also, do you believe revelations was written in some sort of a chronological order? If so, then the first reaping doesn't take place until later. If the revelations were NOT in chronological order, then maybe John had compiled a series of seperate visions.

Revelation is not written in chronological order, that's why eschatology has to be established. Prophets often were not given one huge vision they couldn't handle everything they saw in the future. After some of Daniel's visions he was incapacitated for several days. Sometimes the prophets would beg God to stop talking because it hurt like bleeding ears and bleeding noses type of pain, and he'd have to spoon feed them bits at a time. It's possible John could have had more than one vision in succession.

Originally posted by jhill76
[
Michael would only take an order from the Chief Angel and that is "The Arc", and that is only when Father is not around to give said orders. Also, they do not wear crowns, it looks like a crown, but it is (translating into human terms), an aurora of light that sits right a top of their heads.

edit on 30-9-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)

So, jhill, what is your interpretation?

Who is the "one who sat like unto the Son of man"?

Originally posted by Deetermined

Originally posted by jhill76
[
Michael would only take an order from the Chief Angel and that is "The Arc", and that is only when Father is not around to give said orders. Also, they do not wear crowns, it looks like a crown, but it is (translating into human terms), an aurora of light that sits right a top of their heads.

edit on 30-9-2012 by jhill76 because: (no reason given)

So, jhill, what is your interpretation?

Who is the "one who sat like unto the Son of man"?

edit on 30-9-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

If I told you the name, you wouldn't know of him. But, it is an elder angel, not an arc, but below an arc.

reply to post by jhill76


Are we talking about one of the "elders" that sits around the throne in Revelation 4:4?

Are they related?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by jhill76

 

Are we talking about one of the "elders" that sits around the throne in Revelation 4:4?

Are they related?

No, they are different. Those elders are the arcs, there are 25 in total, but John only saw 24 in heaven at his viewing. The are others who have arc status, but are not arcs, because they do not have a specific task. For example: Micheal is an arc, his task is over all protection.

Elders report to the arcs. Arcs will be their direct superior.

I am using the terminology that is used above, others use the terminology that is written down here.

reply to post by jhill76


So, is the other angel who calls from the "temple" to instruct him to harvest coming from an archangel?

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by jhill76

 

So, is the other angel who calls from the "temple" to instruct him to harvest coming from an archangel?

Yes, this would be correct. There is a lot more instruction going on than that which is written. They speak so fast, John couldn't write all of it down.