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The son of man on the cloud in Revelations 14:14?

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posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 01:12 AM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 

You have some less than accepted interpretations and you call other people cultist , I'm not sure what you believe .
If you mean by "less than accepted": as compared to what is considered orthodox to the cult line, then yes.
In terms of Christianity in general, then I think I would be mainstream, especially of you take into consideration what was believed throughout the history of Christianity.
What your cult believes was invented in the early eighteen hundreds and does not represent normal Christianity and in fact I consider it heretical to the point that it should not even be considered Christianity. It works against every one of the fundamental principles of Christianity and replaces it with a doctrine of devils to destroy the earth (allowing Satan to succeed).
edit on 1-10-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19




posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 01:49 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Again it's not you it's the rest of the world that's screwed up !



posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 02:30 AM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 

Again it's not you it's the rest of the world that's screwed up !

That is your cult brainwashing talking.
You get stuck in this little enclosed artificial world construct, where everyone thinks alike, to the point that you imagine the whole world is that way,
You need some deprogramming.
Try to stay away from everyone who believes like you do, hang out with people who are either agnostics or mainstream Christian for a couple months. Don't listen to any religious youtube videos or music, and listen to just secular music. Think about the world as if you have to live here and your life as if you had to live it out to the end like everyone else regardless of fantasies like raptures.
Then go back to Jesus as someone who wants you to live a good life and be a benefit to others and not a Pharisee who thinks they are doing people a favor by bringing them into a cult.
edit on 1-10-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19



posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 03:21 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60

hang out with people who are either agnostics or mainstream Christian for a couple months. Don't listen to any religious youtube videos or music, and listen to just secular music. Think about the world as if you have to live here and your life as if you had to live it out to the end like everyone else regardless of fantasies like raptures.
Then go back to Jesus as someone who wants you to live a good life and be a benefit to others and not a Pharisee who thinks they are doing people a favor by bringing them into a cult.


No, not the mainstream.

Most Christians are subject to God's wrath right now.

The beliefs of most Christians today is not compatible with the teachings of Jesus.

Jesus wants us to have a good life? Yes, during the millennial reign of Jesus and in the New Heavens and Earth if you will be found in the Lamb's Book of Life.

But right now, Jesus wants you to carry your cross and to hate your life.

Mainstream Christianity have found an easy way(according to the flesh) to follow God and it's just wrong!

They don't understand what it means to carry your cross and to hate your life. To them it means, finding a career, a great partner, rear great kids, enjoy life....

...It's just lunacy!! If only Agnostics, the Godless, finds that out, you have just discredited your own God!! Either we believe in twisted interpretations or our God is downright illogical, even the product of someone with unstable mind with evil intent!



posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 05:50 AM
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Here are more verses to add to the list of study:

Matthew 13:30

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Matthew 13:38-41

38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;

39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

edit on 1-10-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 06:07 AM
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Originally posted by Deetermined
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

edit on 1-10-2012 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)


As my interpretation of Revelations 14:19.

The "vine of the Earth" is all the works of man - all things that offend. And all who profits in the works of man - them which do iniquity.

I just don't quote Bible verses much because honestly, I'm not very good with the Bible! Many that I speak of is through the guidance and blessings of the Holy Spirit.



posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 

The beliefs of most Christians today is not compatible with the teachings of Jesus.

Jesus wants us to have a good life? Yes, during the millennial reign of Jesus and in the New Heavens and Earth if you will be found in the Lamb's Book of Life.

But right now, Jesus wants you to carry your cross and to hate your life.
The teachings of Jesus?
Would that include "If you want to enter life, obey the commandments. . . . do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself."?
I'm pretty sure that all mainstream Christian churches teach that.
In comparison: the rapture cult heresy teaches that those things are unimportant and the main thing is to believe in the rapture and that you are already "saved" by believing Jesus' blood eliminates any obligation to live by his law.
The "millennial reign" and the rest of those items in that sentence in your post, are from the book of Revelation, which is a book of symbols which uses poetic licence, meaning it is free to use any imagery from any scripture to paint a picture without having to comply with any theological norm connected to the original use of that imagery in the source material.
An example would be the verse in the title of this thread. Revelation "borrows" something you find in Matthew about a certain type of manifestation of Jesus' power as the Christ, and then uses it as an inserted poetic hymn to the power of Jesus. The mistake of the "rapture cult" is to isolate the verse in Revelation, treat it as a theological teaching to interpret the source material in Matthew. That is completely backwards but fits a practice common in the early nineteenth century of using "proof texts". Matthew is the theological teaching, which is about the ascendancy of Christianity and the decline of the Jewish temple cult when the object of their worship is brought level with the ground. It in turn is using imagery from a earlier source, this time from the book of Daniel and the Son of Man.
Carrying your cross is exactly what the "rapture cult" fights against. Jesus was talking about persecution and tribulation for the sake of Jesus' name, where the members of this cult seek to avoid such things by way of this made-up doctrine.

To them it means, finding a career, a great partner, rear great kids, enjoy life....

...It's just lunacy!!
By my reading this statement, then am I to assume that you also are a member of this "rapture cult"?
Why is it that the Christian church did not die off in the second century? My guess is that Christianity back then did not mean putting your life on hold and waiting for the rapture. Lunacy, to me, is this narcissistic infatuation with this idea that God skipped over all these generations for your personal sake, to pick you out as special, like Enoch and Elijah, to rapture you.
edit on 1-10-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19



posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 11:48 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
The teachings of Jesus?
Would that include "If you want to enter life, obey the commandments. . . . do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself."?
I'm pretty sure that all mainstream Christian churches teach that.


Do I have to tell that every time?


I think all Christians know that and that is good...

...That is also why I rarely, probably never pointed those out because nobody makes mistake with that....

....However, that is Old Covenant teaching.... Jesus is still under the Old Covenant (laws) at that time. The New Covenant (Holy Spirit) was not in effect until Jesus died, was resurrected and went back to the Father.

Under the New Covenant, those reborn of the Holy Spirit is no longer under the law because they have a new nature, new instinct.

It is no longer in their nature to do the things of the flesh, murder, steal, give false testimony, all other things abominable to God. They will begin to despise those things as their new nature drives them, even if nobody ever tells them! That makes the New Covenant much different from the Old Covenant. It's fool proof, no backsliding!


A sheep goes after grass, not meat because that is their nature, not because they are under a law... So to speak.




By my reading this statement, then am I to assume that you also are a member of this "rapture cult"? Why is it that the Christian church did not die off in the second century? My guess is that Christianity back then did not mean putting your life on hold and waiting for the rapture. Lunacy, to me, is this narcissistic infatuation with this idea that God skipped over all these generations for your personal sake, to pick you out as special, like Enoch and Elijah, to rapture you.


I do not believe in rapture. I do not put my life on hold. I look for work but no longer look for comfort and 'good things'.

Even if I earn much, I would still live like a poor so I can give most to God's work and the poor. I just don't have a job atm but I keep looking.

That is how the Holy Spirit convicted me of righteous living and should tell everyone. Nobody else taught me. I don't feel bad about it. The fact is the opposite, I felt terrible keeping most my money minus 10% tithes for my own use/enjoyment only.

No conspiracy there, how else can it be evil? In fact, keeping most your possessions/earnings is what I view as evil. It is only possible to give it most away if you live like a poor, letting go of creature comforts.

It never felt bad to live in poverty even if you got the money to spend to yourself... That is how the rebirth in Spirit changed me. Now I cherish the fact I got food, clothing, shelter even if don't have anything else, no car, no nice stuff, cramped, hot, and humid living quarters. I got joy!


I just feel awful, trying to keep most to myself and I see this horrible reality that 16,000 children die everyday of hunger.... Do you know who these children are?? They are the ones Jesus loves!!
edit on 1-10-2012 by ahnggk because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 12:03 PM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 

....However, that is Old Covenant teaching.... Jesus is still under the Old Covenant (laws) at that time. The New Covenant (Holy Spirit) was not in effect until Jesus died, was resurrected and went back to the Father.

And all of this is according to . . what . . exactly?
A philosophy taught by men . . who happen to also belong to your cult?
You are seemingly asserting that once the Holy Spirit comes to you through Jesus, it will instruct you into ignoring everything Jesus taught.
This is what I am asserting: that through those who assume to override Jesus with their own philosophy, are bringing to you the spirits of demons who's goal it is to have you end up in hell.



posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
And all of this is according to . . what . . exactly?
A philosophy taught by men . . who happen to also belong to your cult?
You are seemingly asserting that once the Holy Spirit comes to you through Jesus, it will instruct you into ignoring everything Jesus taught..


Read my post again before you start to look like a hypocrite.

My long post is not an excuse for you to misread and make a twisted interpretation of what I said.



posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


Your belief is what? You seem very eager to call other peoples beliefs a cult . Your quasi 7the day Adventis cult is no exception .



posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Don't tell him what not to believe. Blatant example of Christianity here, people. "Oh, look, someone defying our strict rules of belief! Down with freedom of thought!"



posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 

Your belief is what? You seem very eager to call other peoples beliefs a cult . Your quasi 7the day Adventis cult is no exception .
If your beliefs are obviously out of the rapture cult, then you believe in cult philosophy.
I'm just pointing out that despite the presence of a gaggle of rapture cultists on this forum, it does not represent the majority or mainstream view of the general population of Christians.
If you don't like that being pointed out, I suggest you drop your heretical, anti-Christian views and join the community who follow normal Christianity which has existed since the beginning of Christianity, rather than the minority who have bought into an innovation based on an incomplete knowledge of the Bible, and an eagerness to allow for bad theology, in the interest of supporting a political agenda.
My background is of being brought up in a Seventh Day Adventist family but I don't necessarily subscribe to everything for the sake of denominational or doctrinal loyalty, the type of thing you would find in a cult.



posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 08:13 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 

My beliefs are not of a pretrib rapture but of a harvest after the tribulation and before the Wrath . I do not believe as the Jehovah Witness that the 144000 are going to be raptured but instead will be put here on earth to preach the Gospel during the Wrath . I do believe that Harvest will put a number that no man can number of all nations before the Throne in white robes with their robes washed in the Blood of the Lamb . I do believe that there will be a new heaven and a new earth and this one will pass away burned with fire .
Do these beliefs line up with yours ?



posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 08:41 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


Don't tell him what not to believe. Blatant example of Christianity here, people. "Oh, look, someone defying our strict rules of belief! Down with freedom of thought!"


You need to keep your nose out of it, you don't have a dog in this fight. You don't even read the book so your opinions count for nothing.



posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 

I believe him to be just a youngster . You can't tell him anything because he doesn't want to know . He just wants to heckle Christians , he might even be challenged .



posted on Oct, 1 2012 @ 10:54 PM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 

Do these beliefs line up with yours ?

I think those things, the tribulation and wrath, already happened.
And I probably said a bunch of stuff that does not even apply to you but to the pre-trib coud, sorry about that.



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 01:48 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 

Why do you masquerade as a 7th day Adventist instead of a Preterits ? You also must believe that the bible is totally wrong . There is no way that the mark of the beast and one world government has happened . Then what about the 1000 year reign . From the time of Jesus and his sacrifice for sin he has not returned .And then there is the question what is going on now ?
The way you have chosen to believe you have discredited the very bible from which you are supposed to believe . I don't know your belief crisis but it is very much bordering on disbelief in my opinion .When I say crisis , I have come to understand that there are reasons people choose to believe as they do . Those reasons are mostly fear .The fear of commitment , the fear that they will not be able to sustain their commitment , the fear of of having to give your life to resist the mark and the fear of a long agonizing resisting of the Antichrist . Then there is having to abandon everything that you own to reject the Mark . And lastly the fact that you will have to walk away from those you love who do not share your faith in the Lord .
So lets say it already happened or we will be snatched out before we have to make those hard decisions .
Boy that sounds like commitment to the Lord to me . What is your reason ?



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
I think those things, the tribulation and wrath, already happened.
And I probably said a bunch of stuff that does not even apply to you but to the pre-trib coud, sorry about that.


If only human world is considered, then the most recent and biggest cataclysm that caused near extinction of man that may approximate events of Matthew 24 is around 70,000 years ago - Mt Toba eruption/cataclysm. Christianity would then come from those people 70,000 years ago, give or take, with possible huge errors in carbon-dating.

If cataclysm events are considered in the context of the Earth's History, then the K-T extinction event 65 millions years ago is a much closer approximation of Matthew 24!!

But in the context of Earth's history, your theory will be easily discredited even by Science for a much greater cataclysm earlier than 65 million years ago ocurred - P-Tr, 250 million yrs ago extinction event. In Matthew 24, cataclysm, Jesus said it will be unequaled in magnitude so it will be more destructive than either K-T or P-Tr extinction events.

Matthew 24 is about a global cataclysm. The mention of the elect gives the picture that all nations will be affected similarly - the Sun, moon and stars will not be seen due to the huge cloud of dust either thrown up by massive volcanism in those times and/or asteroid/comet impacts.

The command to flee to mountains may be to hide in caves to protect against acid rain or find higher ground to escape the massive tsunamis that will be generated.

Extinction level events match those of Matthew 24, but the most disturbing thing if it's in the context of Earth's history, that the worst is yet to come. You think P-Tr is horrible, it's gonna get even worse.



posted on Oct, 2 2012 @ 02:12 AM
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reply to post by ahnggk
 

Isaiah 24 tells of the Earth reeling in it's orbit like a drunkard ,....... turned upside down ......sun and moon confounded . This prophecy evidently has not been fulfilled as it is only 2500 years plus or minus old .
The Planet X Nibiru type of solar system gravitational disruption did seem plausible even if the NASA denies the existence of such a possibility .
But then would they tell us ???





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