Romney TORTURE Memo Leaked

Originally posted by sonnny1
Obama, is the guy who signed in NDAA, resigned the Patriot Act, used drone Warfare, and has a "kill list".


HYPOCRITES

Oh, but Obama is sainted, remember?
He is the Saviour! He can do no wrong.

Originally posted by loam
Oh, this thread is too rich...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Isn't this interesting? Obama signed this EO to stop torture as one of his first actions in office.

A pretty meaningless accomplishment, when you can simply assume the intelligence you might suspect and just KILL the person, including American citizens without judicial due process:

Obama's Kill List

...or presume their guilt by virtue of their geographic proximity to other presumed terrorists:

U.S. Drone Policy: Standing Near Terrorists Makes You A Terrorist

Obama, Becker and Shane write, was angry when informed that the first drone strike after he took office had killed innocent Pakistanis. But one of the measures the administration embraced to prevent future innocent casualties was to embrace a method of counting combatants that would rope in more innocents.

"It in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent," the Times reports. "Counterterrorism officials insist this approach is one of simple logic: people in an area of known terrorist activity, or found with a top Qaeda operative, are probably up to no good."

...or detain a person indefinitely without due process:

Obama wins right to indefinitely detain Americans under NDAA

...or just convince most people you've eliminated torture, by removing one type of it (water-boarding), while still heavily engaging in other types of it:

Torture under Obama

and:

ACLU trashes Obama over indefinite detention and torture act

****************

Yeah, I'm real glad Obama offers an alternative to the approaches outlined by these mere advisers to Romney (he hasn't actually said this would be his position yet).

Just think how much worse off we would be...

edit on 29-9-2012 by loam because: (no reason given)

You're gonna really be happy when Obama is reelected

Romney's "mere advisors" are the same people who concocted this new era of torture and spying.

mere advisors

Obama 2012!

Originally posted by RealSpoke
First the right wingers tried to deflect the issue of Romneys torture memo onto Obama, now they are going for me.

Get over itttttttt. Romney is a neo-con Bush admin war hawk who likes to torture people........loves the kill lists.....loves the NDAA. And would continue all of Obamas war on terror policies.

Given that Obama has continued Bush war policies and Bush domestic program spending, and even spending more than Bush both terms, and you support Obama, why does this upset you so much?

What's just as interesting as this memo is the fact that Nancy Pelosi knew of the waterboarding and she lied about her knowledge.

My how memories are short around here.

Should Obama have prosecuted CIA members who waterboarded? Apparently he did not.

hotair.com...

I bet the reason it didn't happen is because pelosi knew about it. To indict the CIA would be to open up more investigation into what she knew and when she knew it.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Isn't this interesting? Obama signed this EO to stop torture as one of his first actions in office. One of the consequences was that it improved our relationship with the rest of the world.

Arab springs, overthrowing of leaders in muslim countries, Muslim Brotherhood taking control, riots at numerous American embassies, dead ambassadors, our allies spurned, death chants all over again....yah all a result of Obama's great foreign policies.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


I don't like Obamas war on terror policies, I've said it a million times now. That reply was to people that were Romney supporters attempting to diss Obama on policies Romney supports.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Isn't this interesting? Obama signed this EO to stop torture as one of his first actions in office. One of the consequences was that it improved our relationship with the rest of the world.

Arab springs, overthrowing of leaders in muslim countries, Muslim Brotherhood taking control, riots at numerous American embassies, dead ambassadors, our allies spurned, death chants all over again....yah all a result of Obama's great foreign policies.

I see your spreading a lot of BS in this thread... not surprised...

You're setting up this construct for example:

We shouldn't vote for Obama, because he didn't prosecute Nancy Pelosi for covering up a torture program started by Republicans, even though he did STOP the torture, but should instead vote for Romney a Republican, who has stated he'll restarted the torture Obama stopped.

Yes?

Perfectly (il)logical.

And in this wonderful post of yours, you decry democracy, the same democracy we went into the middle east to spread, mind, because you don't like who the people choose?

Do you ALSO espouse a dictatorship in America if you don't like who voters choose?

Or are you only ok with dictators and torture when it's happening to other people?

You must be aware how nonsensical your points are. I hope.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

...yah all a result of Obama's great foreign policies.

I think you're wholly underestimating the amount of free will people have.

Believe it or not, social unrest and resentment of leaders can actually exist without any influence whatsoever from a US President.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Isn't this interesting? Obama signed this EO to stop torture as one of his first actions in office. One of the consequences was that it improved our relationship with the rest of the world.

Arab springs, overthrowing of leaders in muslim countries, Muslim Brotherhood taking control, riots at numerous American embassies, dead ambassadors, our allies spurned, death chants all over again....yah all a result of Obama's great foreign policies.

So you would rather support Dictatorships in the Middle East???

Is that the contrary position to Obama's?

reply to post by longlostbrother


Where did I tell anyone who to vote for?

BS? well a dead ambassador is not fictitious. The Arab spring, all these uprisings are not fictitious and are on Obama's watch. Had it been on Bush's watch you would have been all over it wouldn't you? Don't lie. You know if you support Obama, you blame Bush, the guy who made that nutty movie, Fox news, the Tea Party...etc
I am tired of hearing people blame it all on Bush or Fox or the Tea Party or the Koch bros.
Enough of that! The buck stops with POTUS!

reply to post by campanionator


I don't support any dictatorship. Do you support radical groups like the Muslim Brotherhood who overtly hate America?
I have it on good authority that even communist groups are vying for power in Tunisia. All this upheaval is not by accident. It is orchestrated.
I remember reading an obscure article when the protests in Tunisia first started. It talked about labor unions. I knew then something was up. Then later I saw how Richard Trumpka was bragging about how the unions were involved in the Arab Spring in egypt. This stuff is just not accidental.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by longlostbrother

 

Where did I tell anyone who to vote for?

BS? well a dead ambassador is not fictitious. The Arab spring, all these uprisings are not fictitious and are on Obama's watch. Had it been on Bush's watch you would have been all over it wouldn't you? Don't lie. You know if you support Obama, you blame Bush, the guy who made that nutty movie, Fox news, the Tea Party...etc
I am tired of hearing people blame it all on Bush or Fox or the Tea Party or the Koch bros.
Enough of that! The buck stops with POTUS!

If you blame the right things on POTUS people will not deny it.

But pretending that Obama destroyed a vibrant economy, or pretending that he engineered
the modern day police state is completely fictional.

You pretending otherwise will not sway stable people.

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by RealSpoke

 

Torture should not be part of a civilised society. You do not have to become a monster to fight a monster. Really I think most people would say anything under torture. Its sad to see things like the Geneva convention disregarded with a few slippery words. Things like that where put there for reasons. To try and stop the past from repeating itself.

Maybe we are the monsters we think we're not!

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by campanionator

 

I don't support any dictatorship. Do you support radical groups like the Muslim Brotherhood who overtly hate America?

Nope I don't support them, just like I don't support the Tea Party, radical religious groups suck.

I have it on good authority that even communist groups are vying for power in Tunisia. All this upheaval is not by accident. It is orchestrated.
I remember reading an obscure article when the protests in Tunisia first started. It talked about labor unions. I knew then something was up. Then later I saw how Richard Trumpka was bragging about how the unions were involved in the Arab Spring in egypt. This stuff is just not accidental.

God forbid people have a say at the workplace, oh the humanity.

Notice: The USSR has been dead for over twenty years

reply to post by Kandinsky


ok fair enough. But what about Richard Trumka bragging about being involved in the Egypt uprising? What about Medea Benjamin being there right when all this was going on? What about Bill Ayers the avowed domestic terrorist who got off on a technicality?

Here is an article talking about unions and Tunisia

www.aflcio.org...

Obama has been all about unions, even giving unions waivers on Obamacare.

Obama's policies have emboldened the people who hate America, not made them respect us, or they wouldn't be rioting and killing ambassadors.

I would also like to say that massive uprisings like this just don't happen spontaneously. Even if people were outraged by that stupid movie, someone was out there goading people. The Arab Spring happened certainly well before the movie...
I know for a fact that in Tunisia, people are not allowed to criticize the govt. So how come out of practically nowhere suddenly they all overrthrow a pro Western leader? Only to have the same action in multiple muslim countries?

reply to post by campanionator


The USSR is not dead, but communism did fail there. Perhaps the Soviet Union is just playing dead. There are hard core Leninist-communists here in the States who seem to want to try the same nutty experiement the USSR failed at.

The Unions have been a tool of communism for a very long time. If you wish to deny the involvement of communism at the roots of labor movements, I can certainly take up the debate. Probably not tonight though.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Obama's policies have emboldened the people who hate America, not made them respect us, or they wouldn't be rioting and killing ambassadors.

And you think blowing up women and children with war and bombs will garner respect?

Emboldened sounds like George W Bush, Neocon speak...

Those who don't respect us are typically zealots that feed off the hate they are fed by psycho
Imams, hardly Obama's doing.

Governement in US didn't change. That's the point.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by campanionator

 

The USSR is not dead, but communism did fail there. Perhaps the Soviet Union is just playing dead. There are hard core Leninist-communists here in the States who seem to want to try the same nutty experiement the USSR failed at.

The Unions have been a tool of communism for a very long time. If you wish to deny the involvement of communism at the roots of labor movements, I can certainly take up the debate. Probably not tonight though.

And Unions were also at the heart of the American Middle class for decades.

It is sad that you have to take everything to the most extreme place...

I have never met a hardcore Leninist, does advocacy of Medicare count, or maybe minimum wage?

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
You're framing unrest in Middle East nations as a political commentary against Obama.

If the population of Tunisia, Egypt or elsewhere want workplace rights, that's their prerogative and it isn't related to Dems or Reps. The conditions we enjoy weren't given to us from on high.

The OP was raising the suggestion that a Rep POTUS would recommend increased use of torture. That isn't anything to do with Obama or burgeoning dreams of unionisation in the ME. Now, if you believe that Obama's policies have 'emboldened' America's opponents...think what a return to the use of torture would do. I'd also like to point out that extraordinary rendition is seen in a bad light by more people than Arabs or Muslims.