Romney TORTURE Memo Leaked , page 1

In one of his first acts, President Obama issued an executive order restricting interrogators to a list of nonabusive tactics approved in the Army Field Manual. Even as he embraced a hawkish approach to other counterterrorism issues — like drone strikes, military commissions, indefinite detention and the Patriot Act — Mr. Obama has stuck to that strict no-torture policy.

By contrast, Mr. Romney’s advisers have privately urged him to “rescind and replace President Obama’s executive order” and permit secret “enhanced interrogation techniques against high-value detainees that are safe, legal and effective in generating intelligence to save American lives,” according to an internal Romney campaign memorandum.

“Waterboarding is torture,” Mr. Obama said in November. “It’s contrary to America’s traditions. It’s contrary to our ideals. That’s not who we are. That’s not how we operate. We don’t need it in order to prosecute the war on terrorism. And we did the right thing by ending that practice. If we want to lead around the world, part of our leadership is setting a good example.”

Mr. Bradbury, who declined to comment, was one of 18 lawyers on the Romney campaign’s national security law subcommittee when its “Interrogation Techniques” paper was circulated.

The list also included Michael Chertoff, the former homeland security secretary; Cully Stimson, the Pentagon’s detainee policy chief; and many other Bush-era executive branch veterans: Bradford Berenson, Elliot S. Berke, Todd F. Braunstein, Gus P. Coldebella, Jimmy Gurule, Richard D. Klingler, Ramon Martinez, Brent J. McIntosh, John C. O’Quinn, John J. Sullivan, Michael Sullivan and Alex Wong. Three others — Lee A. Casey, Maureen E. Mahoney and David B. Rivkin Jr. — served in earlier Republican administrations.

www.nytimes.com...

Torture does not work not to mention it is horrible immoral and a violation of human rights. So the bottom line is to "rescind Obama's executive order." Bringing back the old Bush / Cheney ways of dealing with situations. Those really worked out great.

www.documentcloud.org...

reply to post by RealSpoke

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Using more extreme torture methods devalues the reputation of the country using them. It also sends the message that the means justifies the ends and that anything goes.

Is Romney hoping to save American lives by using torture on other people? How do most Americans feel about US troops being tortured in the Vietnam war? How do they feel about allied troops being tortured by the Taliban?

I was just searching for examples of torture of US or UK soldiers and link after link after link referenced US/UK torture of their own captives. It looks like we have a worse reputation for torture than the poorly-trained, badly-armed, uneducated religious fundamentalists! I feel like I've just been reality-checked...

reply to post by RealSpoke

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Torture should not be part of a civilised society. You do not have to become a monster to fight a monster. Really I think most people would say anything under torture. Its sad to see things like the Geneva convention disregarded with a few slippery words. Things like that where put there for reasons. To try and stop the past from repeating itself.

reply to post by RealSpoke

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Originally posted by RealSpoke
Bringing back the old Bush / Cheney ways of dealing with situations. Those really worked out great.

Isn't this interesting? Obama signed this EO to stop torture as one of his first actions in office. One of the consequences was that it improved our relationship with the rest of the world. I know just the mention of improving our "relationship with the world" leaves many with a bad taste in their mouths, as if doing something to "improve relationships" is a wussy and weak thing to do. But that is reality, according to the Bush/Rove/Rumsfeld point of view.

With all the Bosh-era advisers Romney is employing, I think it's naive and even ignorant not to assume we will go BACK to the policies of that terrible time. And with Romney's economic plan of lowering taxes on himself and his buddies, the economy will tank again, with no hope of recovery.

I don't know about anyone else, but I don't want this country to go backwards. I don't want to re-hash the failed policies of the Bush administration.

Torture doesn't work and it's inhumane. It's NOT something civilized people should do to their fellow Earth inhabitants. It's insane to think that we'd be safe if Romney gets into office.

reply to post by RealSpoke

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It's no surprise to me. Hell, in one way or another, Romney has been torturing the american people most of his adult life. Just listening to the stupid crap that comes out of his mouth daily is torture enough.

F&S for the OP!

reply to post by RealSpoke

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THe only reason we knew there was torture was because it came into light. Just because they say they won't torture doesn't mean they will actually stop. Governments lies.... even if Obama isn't lieing... its not like obama has direct control of everything our military and intelligence agencies do. HOw much is not kept from him like it is from our representatives under the guise of national security.

I do not even know why people spend the time ragging on particular parties when the reality is that they both screw us over but people do not seem to get that. They think that if they stick to their tribe through thick and thin ignoring all the bs they spout it will change america.

It won't all you do is egg on their control and manipulation by the 2 headed 1 party system.

Bloods and crips .. enjoy your gang activity

Oh, this thread is too rich...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Isn't this interesting? Obama signed this EO to stop torture as one of his first actions in office.

A pretty meaningless accomplishment, when you can simply assume the intelligence you might suspect and just KILL the person, including American citizens without judicial due process:

Obama's Kill List

...or presume their guilt by virtue of their geographic proximity to other presumed terrorists:

U.S. Drone Policy: Standing Near Terrorists Makes You A Terrorist

Obama, Becker and Shane write, was angry when informed that the first drone strike after he took office had killed innocent Pakistanis. But one of the measures the administration embraced to prevent future innocent casualties was to embrace a method of counting combatants that would rope in more innocents.

"It in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent," the Times reports. "Counterterrorism officials insist this approach is one of simple logic: people in an area of known terrorist activity, or found with a top Qaeda operative, are probably up to no good."

...or detain a person indefinitely without due process:

Obama wins right to indefinitely detain Americans under NDAA

...or just convince most people you've eliminated torture, by removing one type of it (water-boarding), while still heavily engaging in other types of it:

Torture under Obama

and:

ACLU trashes Obama over indefinite detention and torture act

****************

Yeah, I'm real glad Obama offers an alternative to the approaches outlined by these mere advisers to Romney (he hasn't actually said this would be his position yet).

Just think how much worse off we would be...

reply to post by RealSpoke

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“Waterboarding is torture,” Mr. Obama said in November. “It’s contrary to America’s traditions. It’s contrary to our ideals. That’s not who we are. That’s not how we operate. We don’t need it in order to prosecute the war on terrorism. And we did the right thing by ending that practice. If we want to lead around the world, part of our leadership is setting a good example

Thats actually one more thing that I agree with Obama about, the only other thing is his stance against Israel.
A lot of people have said that torture doesnt work because after a while, the prisoner will tell you anything you want to hear, whether its the truth or not.

reply to post by captaintyinknots

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Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Que the "but Obama is WORSE"

I see.

So it makes more sense to worry about what a candidate *might* do, rather than address the *actual* things an incumbent does, which pale in comparison to the first concern?

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
and "torture isnt really THAT bad" posts in 3...2...1...

No. It is *that* bad. As all of the rest of what I outlined above.

But because *your* guy does it, most of you will give him a pass.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
The GOP is very pro "war on terror", even if it means becoming terrorists themselves.

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