What space did the universe expand into?

Simple. Space didnt expand. Its infinite. Whats in it expands. But if everything in space is a cubic mile.....nothing outside of that cubic mile matters. Theres nothing there...... And if theres nothing there whose to say the space is even there?

If we were on the very edge of the universe, and you took off into the direction of the end of the universe at a bazillion times the speed of light until you were somewhere that not a single particle had ever been....did that space even exist before you went there? How would you know? Did space expand just for you?

reply to post by phroziac


That's not what the CMBR says...

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
from that perspective only what is is, so so ask but what is outside of what is, that doesn't make any sense, same thing here.

I don't think you realize that you just said that the universe has always existed (no need for a god). You are saying that universe exploded into the universe. What is (which would be the universe) is (which is also the universe). Since nothing can be outside of 'what is', then the universe has always existed. Good job! And, deep!

reply to post by AmatuerSkyWatcher


Yah, stretching... The amount of matter the balloon is made of does not change, but it gains a larger surface area. LIke I said, still not entirely accurate, but better visualizations since the OP wanted opinions as apposed to math. Think of the stretching of the rubber, as i said nothing about inflating it...

The first word in your name is very apt.... -_-

Originally posted by phroziac
Simple. Space didnt expand. Its infinite. Whats in it expands. But if everything in space is a cubic mile.....nothing outside of that cubic mile matters. Theres nothing there...... And if theres nothing there whose to say the space is even there?

If we were on the very edge of the universe, and you took off into the direction of the end of the universe at a bazillion times the speed of light until you were somewhere that not a single particle had ever been....did that space even exist before you went there? How would you know? Did space expand just for you?

I'm not saying this is wrong because I do believe it has it's relevance... but why is there "stuff" in some parts of space but not others?

I'm asking because there must be a reason for that which could be understood. Why here, but not over there... and what exactly IS over there if there's nothing there at all? Do we know it's just space even.... or rather the potential for space... because there is all KINDS of stuff in the galactic medium... it's not space at all in my opinion. We talk about going into space but it's really just the planetary medium... not even yet the interstellar medium.

Something tells me there has to be something out there, it's just not like what is over here in this region of space.... why?

If you look around you, there is no area that is not occupied by something... correct?

There's got to be something out there, if not matter or energy we don't recognize... at least some kind of occurrence or instance that is separate from what we see over "here"

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by OMsk3ptic
How do you explain one side of the universe expanding faster than the other with this model? Seems like something outside of our universe is exerting a gravitational force on one side?

Watchitburn's explanation is certainly not that of astrophysicists. However if you are talking about dark flow, it's a bit uncertain as they don't even know if it's coming or going:

Dark Flow

right now our data cannot state as strongly as we'd like whether the clusters are coming or going," Kashlinsky said.

Are you saying the astrophysicists actually believe ( as their official Standard Model as you called it)

Perhaps the simplest way to look at these questions is the following: if the universe includes, by definition, everything -- all of space, time, matter, energy -- than there can be nothing outside of it (and hence no edge), nothing for it to expand into. Its true that this is contrary to our everyday experience, as is much else in physics and astronomy; but of course our everyday experience does not extend to the entire universe.

On what observations do they base the above? Watchitburn's hypothesis seems as plausible as this one. How can astrophysicists even have a solid definite opinion on something they cannot even observe? Wouldn't it be better not to play this game and for them to simply say, " we have no idea"?

What the above seems to be actually saying is, " The universe does not expand". It would need to answer the flip side of the coin - What if the universe by definition does not include everything -- all of space, time, matter, energy and would require something outside of known space for it to expand into. Why don't they deal with this question - or do they?

When you imagine an apple... what "space" does it take up?

That's the same space the universe expanded into.

Now get with the creating creator!

now see, I thought this thread would really be getting at the begining of time,,,,nope....it's about something else that seems meaningless or unprovable conjecture to me,,,,

reply to post by OMsk3ptic


That's my side! Get your own!

I think i thought of a better answer to the OP's question.

Its all about what your quantum theory of gravity is. Current physics doesn't explain how space/time expands into nothing. Gravity breaks down at certain points, and our standard model is not complete.

Inflation give us a nice mathematical model that makes predictions and solved several big problems in cosmology. But it only goes so far. It doesnt explain anything before singularity or even what it is. It also doesn't give us any intuitive clues for our human brain to comprehend expansion of space.

In the bulk model of M-theory, there is some very fancy math that describes what exists between "branes" which is a string theoriest word for universe. The bulk is a theoretical concept and there is no indication that there actually is one, other than from working the math of higher dimensional strings.

So best answer? We don't know

Originally posted by AmatuerSkyWatcher
reply to post by phroziac

 

That's not what the CMBR says...

Im sorry, that was my opinion and not accepted fact and i should have said so. But, how do we know the cmbr is everywhere? We are nowhere near an edge.... :p

reply to post by NotAnAspie


Why was everything in existance in a singularity? Why is most of the united states completely empty, yet people in new york city are packed in like ants and act like everyone lives that way?

How is there a vacuum in space? Why is it not filled with gas?

You do know about the cosmic speed limit? Theres stars in the sky that havent existed in thousands if not billions of years, but the light from their destruction hasnt gotten here yet..... Theres also stars that have existed for thousands of years that we cant see yet.....the light from their creation hasnt gotten here yet

So lets say the big bang happened now. Everything in the universe is in a 10 cubic mile cloud of plasma. But you have a way to instantly zoom to somewhere a million light years away. But everything in the universe is only in that 10 mile cloud. The universe isnt old enough for anything to get to where you are....

And you cant navigate through nothing anyway, try going out in the middle of lake michigan or an ocean and navigating without a compass...youll end up driving your boat in circles.

It was a good question for you to ask though....

reply to post by jiggerj
It didn't expand into anything, because there was nothing to expand into.

Space creates space there is nothing to stop it.

reply to post by ubeenhad
Gravity doe not break down.

Gravity is what formed everthing you see,

Look at the powwer of black hole, is gravity broke down or kicking butt.

I like to think of it like this...
1: INFINTE space
2: Positive and Negative exist in this space
3: P and N colide
4: The massive energy released creates matter.
gas, stars, planets etc etc etc....

Can we observe matter accelerate? YES
Can we observe emptynes/space accelerate? Never heard of it.

I dont think its SPACE that expands, i just think that the explosion(BB)
caused all matter to accelerate and colide and what not....

My 2c

I would imagine the universe moves around a torus or perpetual vortex condensing everything and then expanding it.



Current models of the expanding universe give off the appearance that we could to be still on the inner cusp of this torus heading outwards and hopefully back around again as an eternal recurrence.


Metric expansion of space

Just an idea.

Years ago I remember reading about a man in Europe who received an award for helping save a Jewish man from the Nazi's. The Jewish people thanked him for saving a "Universe".

I found that sentence odd and have pondered it for some time.

Right now our scientists have a new super microscope and are looking at how a single cell is created from nothing and how the thousands of atoms in it all work together and how they know what to do.

I think they'll soon uncover a secret of the Universe by looking at cells and atoms with their new toy.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


You could have been more clear and simply stated that before the universe came to be there was no space or time (space/time is the same thing according to prevailing theories).

reply to post by Panic2k11

Maybe that's clear to you, but the question wasn't what existed before the universe, so I don't think that answers the question, which was "what is the universe expanding into?".

Originally posted by OOOOOO
reply to post by ubeenhad

 

Gravity doe not break down.

Gravity is what formed everthing you see,

Look at the powwer of black hole, is gravity broke down or kicking butt.

Ill feed you baby bird.

Our known laws of gravity "break down" at the point of singularity. Relativity or newtonian mechanics wont work if the density is infinite.

Originally posted by OOOOOO
reply to post by jiggerj

 

It [the universe] didn't expand into anything, because there was nothing to expand into.

This statement implies that just beyond the edge of the expanding universe there is a wall of nothing. A wall can't be made of nothing. Space can't be made of nothing. Space can't be full of nothing.