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Did Muhammad ascend to heaven and descend, Messiah Jesus refutes this.

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posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen
 


Oh come on now.... you know damn well i was joking...

The point being... Just because some people don't interprete it the same doesn't mean its not there...


What you insinuated is deeply insulting to me, for reasons that I will not go into, and it has no basis in this argument.

And no, the difference between your and my interpretation of scripture isn't a matter of opinion, because opinion which is unsubstantiated by facts is not a valid opinion.


Just because your religion says it is a fact... doesn't make it a fact

Theres 34k different sects of Christianity... some of them believe in reincarnation... Some don't...

Thus it is subjective depending on which flavor you choose...

Similar to the idea of this transubstantiation/Eucharist deal...


edit on 18-9-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)




posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 10:28 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
Theres 34k different sects of Christianity... some of them believe in reincarnation... Some don't...


Almost every one of those 34,000 (or whatever the number is, I've seen 38,000) is a result of congregational denominations, where every church sets their own theology and standards (Baptists are the majority of those,) though few vary much from traditional Christian beliefs.

How about a list of those denominations that believe in reincarnation? With 34,000 to choose from, you must have quite the list of them.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 10:36 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


Why would i keep a list of anything relating to a religion i disagree with? Or any religion for that matter?

Makes no sence...


Google is your friend...





posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen
 


Why would i keep a list of anything relating to a religion i disagree with? Or any religion for that matter?


Then how would you be able to claim that such a list exists? Did you just make up your claim?



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 10:43 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 





It's a well known fact in Islam that Muhammad ascended to heaven and decended, but this claim is a bold lie ...


actually, he may have.

it is a known truism of the occult that there are...

"susceptible types"...

who on achieving astral projection...

well... lets say they go overboard and think they're messengers of the most high and such like,
it's the same with initiation experiences and the messiah complex.

or are we to understand that all these folks who claim they've been to heaven or hell and bring a message from jesus are fakes too?
edit on 18-9-2012 by DerepentLEstranger because: fixed quote



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 





There cannot be only one God and many Gods. That violates the Law of Noncontradiction. That's an epic logic fail.


lol i see you know little or nothing about Hinduism or Immanence for that matter.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 11:03 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 



So again, what if both were true...

What if there is one Supreme God,and many lesser "Gods"... perhaps depending on which planet/galaxy/dimention said person exists within?


You didn't read the link? Two contradictory claims cannot both be true. That's a violation of the Law of Noncontradiction. If your example is true, then the person who said "there are many gods" would have the objective truth. Relativism is a logical fallacy, it's "self-refuting". Truth is not subjective or relative, opinions are.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 11:06 PM
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Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 





There cannot be only one God and many Gods. That violates the Law of Noncontradiction. That's an epic logic fail.


lol i see you know little or nothing about Hinduism or Immanence for that matter.


If they believe in logical fallacies as truth shame on them. I don't really see your point. If you can find an exception clause for Hinduism in the Law of Noncontradiction in classic logic then please do so.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen
 


Oh come on now.... you know damn well i was joking...

The point being... Just because some people don't interprete it the same doesn't mean its not there...


edit on 18-9-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)


What you're actually advocating is Esigesis. Scholars deal in Exegesis. They are completely opposite.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


lol
as i suspected, a religion thousands of years older than yours
but those brown people are just plain ig'nant and incapable of seeing the holes in it


as for logic:





logic is blind, and often leads you into the trap of believing you know.
-Bene Gesserit aphorism







Answers are a perilous grip on the universe. They can appear sensible yet explain nothing.

- The Zensunni Whip



Ultimately, all things are known because you want to believe you know.

- Zensunni koan





posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 11:42 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen
 


Why would i keep a list of anything relating to a religion i disagree with? Or any religion for that matter?


Then how would you be able to claim that such a list exists? Did you just make up your claim?


You brought up this list...

Shouldn't a religion be united?

Ye know... a kingdom divided against itself and stuff





Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by adjensen
 


Oh come on now.... you know damn well i was joking...

The point being... Just because some people don't interprete it the same doesn't mean its not there...


edit on 18-9-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)


What you're actually advocating is Esigesis. Scholars deal in Exegesis. They are completely opposite.



I don't believe i ever claimed to be a scholar... But by the definition of the word

eisegesis:personal interpretation of a text (especially of the Bible) using your own ideas

Isn't that the idea?

A personal relationship with God... by understanding his son?




posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by DerepentLEstranger
 





or are we to understand that all these folks who claim they've been to heaven or hell and bring a message from jesus are fakes too?


We are told specifically not to trust any spirits without testing them first and no i do not trust NDE's because of the Rich man and Lazarus parable. If NDE's were a legitimate experience it was for that one person only, no one else would believe it but another believer anyway so it would serve no purpose other than to tell people who already know, which would be a excercise in futility and i have never known the Holy Spirit to waste his time, he would use something to bring the Lost Ones to Him.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by TTAA2012
 





Narcissism: The Pope has a solid gold staff, a crown, and a throne. Meanwhile, children are starving all over the world


Don't forget he that throne he sits on is a golden throne between 2 Cherubim, just like God's throne on earth, the Ark of the Covenant, intandem with the crown and staff all made from gold stolen from Aztecs and Mayans via the Conquistadors. Oh the symbolisms of his blasphemies will ensure he roasts in the deepest part of Gehenna.



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 11:52 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 



Oh the symbolisms of his blasphemies will ensure he roasts in the deepest part of Gehenna.


Really though...


A garbage dump?




LOL...

Just playin...

edit on 18-9-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 11:58 PM
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Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by adjensen
 


To anyone with the above mentality, mostly to OP, by the way i am new, so forgive me, i'l learn fast.


Because the Messiah is the King of Kings, he came from above and so he is above all else and he bears the Name Above All Names, this includes Muhammad, however in islam they revere Muhammad over Jesus and call him the "Messenger of Allah" which is a blatant finger pointed at Jesus calling him a liar when he is the Messenger, the Angel of the Lord, the physical incarnation of our God manifested. The contradictions in the Quran point at it clearly being a forgery and a poor one at that and it takes someone with eyes to see to know it. Just like how the Quran says Allah has no partner, but Muhammad says for people to worship himself because he is their Lord and if Allah has no "partner" then how is Muhammad his Messenger when Muhammads words claim he is the "Angel of the Lord"? The hebrew word for angel translates as "messenger". It takes a person who reads both books to see the lies Muhammad claims. No lie can remain hidden from the Spirit of Truth.
edit on 19-9-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 18 2012 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by Akragon
eisegesis:personal interpretation of a text (especially of the Bible) using your own ideas

Isn't that the idea?

A personal relationship with God... by understanding his son?


No, it means reading the scripture with an eye toward confirming an existing belief, irrespective of other scripture.

In other words, one starts with an existing notion ("reincarnation", as an example) and then one finds passages in scripture which might support that, by denying other passages.
edit on 19-9-2012 by adjensen because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 



Oh the symbolisms of his blasphemies will ensure he roasts in the deepest part of Gehenna.


Really though...


A garbage dump?




LOL...

Just playin...

edit on 18-9-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)


LOL. Tell me God doesn't have a sense of humor?



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 12:01 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by DerepentLEstranger
 





or are we to understand that all these folks who claim they've been to heaven or hell and bring a message from jesus are fakes too?


We are told specifically not to trust any spirits without testing them first and no i do not trust NDE's because of the Rich man and Lazarus parable. If NDE's were a legitimate experience it was for that one person only, no one else would believe it but another believer anyway so it would serve no purpose other than to tell people who already know, which would be a excercise in futility and i have never known the Holy Spirit to waste his time, he would use something to bring the Lost Ones to Him.


funny you should reference that parable, the conception of the after life is closer to the Hebrew Sheol than the christian one.

ummm Night-Journey/astral projection?


Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 



Oh the symbolisms of his blasphemies will ensure he roasts in the deepest part of Gehenna.


Really though...


A garbage dump?



lol i see it as an apt metaphor, similar to the Zoroastrian molten metal bath on their version of judgement day, burning away impurities in the faithful, and completely burning away the sinful, much less sadistic than what most christians believe in IMO



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 



Oh the symbolisms of his blasphemies will ensure he roasts in the deepest part of Gehenna.


Really though...


A garbage dump?




LOL...

Just playin...

edit on 18-9-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)


LOL. Tell me God doesn't have a sense of humor?


Damn straight he does...

I can't count how many times i've been brought to tears laughing in certian "experiences"...




posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by DerepentLEstranger
 





funny you should reference that parable, the conception of the after life is closer to the Hebrew Sheol than the christian one


Thats because the first christians were jews and later gentiles (greeks) so they used hades as a comparison to sheol, but sheol is actually the Pit, a.k.a. the grave or death. Remember greeks and other gentiles were not raised from the cradle knowing Torah like the jews were, so the Apostles and their disciples had to use terms the gentiles could gain an understanding on.
edit on 19-9-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



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