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Did Muhammad ascend to heaven and descend, Messiah Jesus refutes this.

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posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 12:10 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon


Originally posted by Akragon


Its my choice... i don't know if its wrong or not...

I simply don't feel the need to harm another living being... Perhaps it is God given morality... maybe not..



You answered with a very dangerous statement. You don't know whether it is wrong or not, and because you do not know then any murder can be justified in your opinion? Just because you don't feel the need today does not mean you will not feel that way tomorrow. That is not God given morality because you arbitrarily decide the morality, of which you cannot know whether it is right or not.

This gives great insight of moral relativism.

God given morality shows you why it is wrong, because life is holy. It is wrong because it denies another human being the right to life. When a person murders, they have destroyed something precious and cannot be given back. When you recognize the humanity of another person created in the image of God, then you understand that if you murder another person, you have taken from their loved ones.

Within that recognition, you also have to understand who is more defenseless and weaker. When a person murders children, it is most heinous act and to address the killer of children we have to execute punishment as a requirement of the safety of society as a whole.

So within your moral relativism, you indicated that you do not know whether murder is wrong or not. A very dangerous concept. I told you why it is wrong according to the precepts of the Bible. Can you see now that moral relativism leads to bad faith, which in turn leads to arbitrarily deciding which morality works for you that day?

The greatest tragedy of moral relativism is that no morality can be achieved. There cannot be justice for the victim or punishment of the guilty. Is that the world you choose to live in? God protect us all from people with this notion.




posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 



You answered with a very dangerous statement. You don't know whether it is wrong or not, and because you do not know then any murder can be justified in your opinion?


...

Wern't we talking about killing flies?

:bnghd:
edit on 19-9-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 





It's a well known fact in Islam that Muhammad ascended to heaven and decended, but this claim is a bold lie ...


actually, he may have.

it is a known truism of the occult that there are...

"susceptible types"...

who on achieving astral projection...

well... lets say they go overboard and think they're messengers of the most high and such like,
it's the same with initiation experiences and the messiah complex.

or are we to understand that all these folks who claim they've been to heaven or hell and bring a message from jesus are fakes too?
edit on 18-9-2012 by DerepentLEstranger because: fixed quote


Let's talk a little bit about Mohammed's "journeys". Have you ever heard the story of when Mohammed flew to Jerusalem on Al-Buraq? Apparently it was not a dream, but it actually happened. The story goes like this, Mohammed was presented with Al-Buraq (for the purpose of semantics, I will say donkey), On this donkey, he apparently flew to Jerusalem, tied it to a ring in the wall that is usually reserved for prophets, He then walked into the temple at Jerusalem and announced his prophethood to the Jews who accepted his prophethood. Then he flew away.

What is the problem with this story? The temple he apparently flew to had been destroyed 500 years earlier. There could be no temple to enter, and the ring he apparently tied his donkey to never existed at any time.

Mohammed made up stories. People had to believe it or else. Those who disputed him surprisingly found themselves dead.

Can you see how he was trying to convince people of his messiahship in imitation of Jesus? Mohammed says all prophets of the Bible testified of him. Yet every prophet in the Bible testified of several things, they prophesied of the destruction of Jerusalem, they prophesied of the dispersion of the Jews who would one day come back to the nation of Israel and they prophesied of the coming messiah. In an effort to convince people, Mohammed ripped off stories from the Bible that he didn't get right.

Several instances:
He says Haman was a vizier under Pharaoh
He says the red heifer of Moses was yellow
He says Noah's son was lost in the flood
He says Alexander the Great travelled until he came to the place where the sun sets in a murky pool.
He said the palm trees cried and food spoke to him.
He said the Jews say Ezra is the messiah

So you can see from just these examples that the man was a nut case. He was a raging megalomaniac that raped a little girl, raped captive women, killed anyone who disagreed with him and destroyed many villages. He convinced his adopted son to give him his wife. Then made adoption illegal.

Why is there anything about this man that makes him rasoulallah, the one to be emulated. Why do people worship this man?

BTW, he said Adam was 90 feet tall yet Eve was normal size and a crow taught Cain how to bury Abel. You would think if he were a true prophet, at least he would have known correctly about Haman. But then again, he said Mary, the mother of Jesus, was the sister of Aaron, the brother of Moses, but yet not the sister of Moses. That simple confusion found its way into the Quran. Amazing.

He said that if he ever says an untrue prophecy that allah would cut his aorta. Interestingly enough, he was poisoned by a Jewish woman whose family he just slaughtered. He said his aorta was cut....what poetic justice. He died in Aisha's bed. He destroyed her life, no one should feel sorry for this man and no one should emulate him. He was not worthy of praise as he said his name means.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 12:46 AM
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Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by WarminIndy
 



You answered with a very dangerous statement. You don't know whether it is wrong or not, and because you do not know then any murder can be justified in your opinion?


...

Wern't we talking about killing flies?

:bnghd:
edit on 19-9-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)


You mentioned flies. Why would I make an issue about whether you were killing flies or not.


The question put forth to you was "is murder wrong?" You answered "I don't know". Perhaps you are getting a little tired and have forgotten your own arguments.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 01:38 AM
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reply to post by DerepentLEstranger
 


Originally posted by DerepentLEstranger
or are we to understand that all these folks who claim they've been to heaven or hell and bring a message from Jesus are fakes too?

There are countless testimonies from people who came back with proof of life after death.

I have read about so many stories similar to the one below over the years that there is no question whatsoever that these experiences are in fact real:


Four year old met his mother’s miscarried child in Heaven

"Colton, still 4 years old, told his mother “you had a baby die in your tummy didn’t you”, which completely shocked them both because they had never told him about their miscarriage. They asked him how he knew and he said that he met his sister in Heaven and she told him what happened."

"Well he’s 7 years old now and it took a couple of years for his parents to really understand what happened, but when Colton Burpo was four years he was having surgery in the hospital for a burst appendix. While he was in surgery he apparently had some sort of out of body experience and could see what his parents were doing. He witnessed that his dad was praying and his mom on her cellphone. Both parents say they have no clue how he knew that, but that it’s absolutely true. And the story just gets more interesting from there.

Apparently during the same surgery Colton went to Heaven where he recounts how he met his grandfather who he had never known, who he later recognized in photos. The interesting thing is that he didn’t recognize photos of his grandfather as an old man with glasses, which is how everyone knew him, but rather as a young man. Colton’s father literally had go find a photo of ‘Pop’ as a young man before Colton was able to recognize him. Now that’s pretty wild.

Link




posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 02:06 AM
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Did Muhammad ascend to heaven and descend...

A South Korean pastor saw Muhammad in Hell crying out with a warning to others to flee Islam and follow JESUS.


South Korean pastor, Bo Ra Choi has seen visions of hell for several years. She has seen many people in hell. She saw Muhammad suffering in hell.

Pastor Bo Ra Choi words convey a powerful statement as to the AGONY that the False Prophet Muhammad is enduring. Each Soul that enters hell because they followed the lie of Islam increases Muhammad's suffering. In the video Muhammad begs those being mislead by Satan through Islam to flee Islam and follow the Divine Son of GOD JESUS CHRIST.




posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 02:23 AM
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Originally posted by WarminIndy

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by WarminIndy
 



You answered with a very dangerous statement. You don't know whether it is wrong or not, and because you do not know then any murder can be justified in your opinion?


...

Wern't we talking about killing flies?

:bnghd:
edit on 19-9-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)


You mentioned flies. Why would I make an issue about whether you were killing flies or not.


The question put forth to you was "is murder wrong?" You answered "I don't know". Perhaps you are getting a little tired and have forgotten your own arguments.




Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by WarminIndy
 



Is it wrong to murder or not? That is a simple question with a simple answer. Don't tell me how society thinks, don't tell me about your upbringing, tell me the answer from your own perspective. Is murder wrong or not?

If murder is wrong, then that must be truth. The statement "thou shalt not kill" is an absolute truth. There is no room for relativism within absolute. Either something is wrong or it is right. So then, is it wrong to murder?


Personally... yes i believe it is wrong...

Not everyone would agree... I consider 90% of the Deaths in the bible to be murder... not everyone agrees...



Page 9




posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 02:25 AM
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Originally posted by raiders247
reply to post by JesuitGarlic
 


So it took me a while but I read all 3 of your posts. Now I feel like an idiot because I wasted time thinking maybe just maybe you will make a point, or shine light on some kind of real evidence.

You quoting other people, reciting passages, posting videos of proven idiots (kent hovind) and quoting scientists does absolutely NOTHING to prove that a god exists.


Perhaps you missed by first post on this thread on page one....I already proved Jesus exists still now with the 3 links at the bottom of the post
------------
Let's see what material I covered (that you seem to think is a waste of time):....
- No anti-matter in the whole milky way galaxy.....implications....The whole galaxy was created supernaturally by a power outside of space-time (meaning a transcendent supernatural power i.e GOD)

- No population III stars means there is no natural mechanism or evidence of anyway that any element heavier that lithium (element 3) could have been formed without supernatural intervention...meaning, GOD created it

- Physics of star formations....no one was ever seen a star form but we have seen many stars explode (deaths) before. Whenever we look off into the distance all we see is mature galaxies, nothing partially forming. Implications, God create all that we see fully intact as is and physical laws prevent any naturalistic stellar formations (i.e no stars to form randomly without God). Implications....GOD did it.

- Fine Tuning and beauty of the physical equations argument...GOD did it, we are no accident, life is so unlikely to be beyond possibility in any other scenario.

- Archeology/Geology confirms the Bible...even the stories that seem fanciful. Implications...The Bible is Divinely inspired and is the Word of GOD...an accurate account of world history and something who's promises for us we can trust.

- Co-existence of dragons/dinosaurs and humans supports young ages of earth history and the universal flood

- Biological evolution (macro and micro) destroyed...shown to have no scientific evidence of support whereas the Cambrian explosion of plants an animals proofs supernatural creation ..i.e GOD did it.
-------
Summary...
Unable to rebut one single argument of content....atheism is destroyed from the very first piece of evidence and continually many more times over. The Bible is supported completely. I am not surprised you can't respond though, they are basically all irrefutable arguments in which the only way to get around them is by having a blank stare off in to the abyss and be in complete denial. Face reality and the content rather than whinging about personal issues (the last port of call of a defeated argument).

You wanted proof so that is what I gave you, now you want opinion???

read: IMPLICATIONS.....GOD DID IT/GOD EXISTS

such material is only a 'waste of time' to those not wishing to face reality
------
show how 'nonsense' my material is by commenting on it directly rather than whinging, show us how truly clever and enlightened you are by denying ignorance...

The only claim I have made, and all of you continue to ignore this, is that there has yet to be any sufficient non-refutable evidence that a creator exists. If you can prove me wrong I'll eat my words and drown in guilt and repent. But somebody prove it first, please.


You so far have not been able to refute a single thing I have said....eat your words...put up a valid argument to every one one of my points and all the lines of evidence I presented, even the video evidence...or shut-up...simple

edit on 19-9-2012 by JesuitGarlic because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 06:17 AM
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Originally posted by TTAA2012

I'm a Christian and I have to disagree. "Religion" and the "Church" have killed more people than any other institution in the history of the world.


The Church is not guilty of any of that. Catholicism and Protestantism are pagan and are not the Church.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 06:27 AM
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So this morning I read on yahoo where they have evidence now that suggest Jesus was married.

He speaks of his wife. :-) www.bloomberg.com...

Yay!

Hopefully more evidence will keep on a coming!!!



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 06:42 AM
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reply to post by MamaJ
 


If it came from Egypt in the 4th century it's a Gnostic text.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 06:47 AM
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reply to post by DerepentLEstranger
 


"Sheol" in Hebrew means "grave". Every corpse in every cemetery on Earth is in sheol.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 06:50 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by MamaJ
 


If it came from Egypt in the 4th century it's a Gnostic text.


And?

Look, you can stick to the doctrine that's been tampered with and filled with half truths or you can discover the truer meaning behind Jesus for yourself.

You are the same one who suggests Manly P. Hall is a Satan worshipper without ever hearing his loving messages/ lectures to mankind. The man lived to help people and give them wisdom so we may not perish like other civilizations. He worshipped Jesus, yet you deny your own brother.

How can you dismiss something without ever hearing or seeing it?

You can dismiss that Jesus actually lived like the rest of us, with a family, you can continue to bury your head and make excuses as to why you have been lied to by the church fathers. It's too political! Not enough truth.

The truth is Jesus reincarnated from the first Adam and even before the First Adam. He evolved, just like you and I.

We are to all evolve into Christ. Plain and simple.
edit on 19-9-2012 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 07:02 AM
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reply to post by MamaJ
 


Sorry lady, I trust His closest friends written statements from the first century over completely different written statements about him from people who never knew Him in the 4th century. In 2,000 years if there were written accounts of your life found, some from your closest friends written about 2030 AD and others that lets say showed you were a muslim written in 2385 AD in Brazil, which ones would you hope people rejected or accepted?

The early church fathers rejected the texts out of Alexandria because of corruption, and they were contemporaries to them. I'm sorry, bit if the authors of the Gnostic texts refused to have honesty with something as simple as the titles and authorship of their letters, on what basis should I trust the contents inside the letters themselves? Gnostic doctrines and letters aren't just unbiblical, they're ANTIbiblical. Jesus is the Truth and the Light of the world, i don't believe He was a schizophrenic.


Really? You believe we are all going to evolve into the Jewish Messiah, God's only Son in the flesh?

ETA: there are two active threads for this letter right now on ATS, please take your comments about the newly found document there please.


edit on 19-9-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 07:17 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by MamaJ
 


Sorry lady, I trust His closest friends written statements from the first century over completely different written statements about him from people who never knew Him in the 4th century. In 2,000 years if there were written accounts of your life found, some from your closest friends written about 2030 AD and others that lets say showed you were a muslim written in 2385 AD in Brazil, which ones would you hope people rejected or accepted?

The early church fathers rejected the texts out of Alexandria because of corruption, and they were contemporaries to them. I'm sorry, bit if the authors of the Gnostic texts refused to have honesty with something as simple as the titles and authorship of their letters, on what basis should I trust the contents inside the letters themselves? Gnostic doctrines and letters aren't just unbiblical, they're ANTIbiblical. Jesus is the Truth and the Light of the world, i don't believe He was a schizophrenic.


Really? You believe we are all going to evolve into the Jewish Messiah, God's only Son in the flesh?

ETA: there are two active threads for this letter right now on ATS, please take your comments about the newly found document there please.


edit on 19-9-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)


I already did.


There will be more to be unveiled that not even you can deny.

Your research is biased. Jewish Messiah?



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by MamaJ
 


Sorry, I saw there are two threads on this subject already, you need to take it over there if you want to discuss it, this isn't the place.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by DerepentLEstranger
 


"Sheol" in Hebrew means "grave". Every corpse in every cemetery on Earth is in sheol.


either you know that i'm refering to the belief that the dead are asleep/unconcious till judgement day or you don't.

you are being a literalist and nit-picking to boot.

you have yet to justify your belief that hindus, who were practicing rhinoplasty while europeans were still struggling with the basic concept of basic hygiene [thanks to xtianity, btw], whose religion is thousands of years older and religious texts far outnumber xtianity's, and will still be around thousands of years after the abrahamic religions become an obscure footnote, lack logic and are in error,

other than your unfounded belief they are.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 08:44 AM
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reply to post by WarminIndy
 





What is the problem with this story? The temple he apparently flew to had been destroyed 500 years earlier. There could be no temple to enter, and the ring he apparently tied his donkey to never existed at any time.


He was quite the flamboyant chap to be sure. He claimed to do everything Jesus did but he did it bigger and better. Classic case of narcissism. Just like a fellow i used to know once, everything i did he did one better and one upped me everytime, a braggart.



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by MamaJ
 





1- Look, you can stick to the doctrine that's been tampered with and filled with half truths 2-or you can discover the truer meaning behind Jesus for yourself.

lol
1-the torah alone was rewritten 4 times by the golden calf worshipping aaronic priesthood that displaced the mosaic priestly line established at shiloh, the authors of the elohist texts,
tampered is putting it mildly.

2-indeed, the true Christ says it himself:

"i am not the god of your fathers"


reply to post by Murgatroid
 

love your avy,
however your reply is best sent to the op
i've allready stated the occult viewpoint in the post youre replying to
and can atest to its validity from personal childhood experience.
edit on 19-9-2012 by DerepentLEstranger because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 19 2012 @ 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by MamaJ

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by MamaJ
 


If it came from Egypt in the 4th century it's a Gnostic text.


And?

Look, you can stick to the doctrine that's been tampered with and filled with half truths or you can discover the truer meaning behind Jesus for yourself.

You are the same one who suggests Manly P. Hall is a Satan worshipper without ever hearing his loving messages/ lectures to mankind. The man lived to help people and give them wisdom so we may not perish like other civilizations. He worshipped Jesus, yet you deny your own brother.

How can you dismiss something without ever hearing or seeing it?

You can dismiss that Jesus actually lived like the rest of us, with a family, you can continue to bury your head and make excuses as to why you have been lied to by the church fathers. It's too political! Not enough truth.

The truth is Jesus reincarnated from the first Adam and even before the First Adam. He evolved, just like you and I.

We are to all evolve into Christ. Plain and simple.
edit on 19-9-2012 by MamaJ because: (no reason given)


Hindu's are loving, buddhists are loving, wiccans are loving, the nephilim were loving too when they weren't eating the antediluvians. Who is the truth the life and the way? Is love the way or is Jesus the way? God may be loving but you're forgetting one very crucial thing, his Justice. If Jesus was so loving why did he preach in parables so the pharisees couldn't gain understanding and thus be damned? Who do you think destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah? You can be loving all you want but if you're not under the second covenant you're still under his judgement. You don't know who Jesus even is, and you blaspheme him by calling him a created being. He is Hayah (I AM).

He is the First and the Last, the King of Israel, the Holy One. The reason he is the First and the Last is because only one was needed, not many, and because only one was needed it made him not just the First but also the Last. Reincarnation comes from the deepest pits of hell.



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