House makes lying about military service a crime

reply to post by jacobe001

We just need to change it so it is illegal for politicians to deceive us. Jail mandatory. People perceive things differently than others, that is not the issue here. They are saying stuff just to get votes. Before they open their big mouths in campaigning, they should research both sides of things and state what they think is a solution. They just tell people what they want to hear. A speech in one area is different than another area, how can they keep their lies straight. I am beginning to think that American politics is becoming the laughing stock of the world. Laughing stock, I wonder where that phrase started?

I'm a veteran and against laws like this. It is repetitive. They simply throw on a catchy title like stolen valor and then they go out an campaign about being for the military. You can't steal valor. You can steal a persons identity. There are already laws against that. You can fraudulently accept gifts, money etc, which laws already exist to address.

In a free country, a person is free to lie as long as the lie doesn't inhibit the rights and freedoms of others. As long as no benefits, gifts, monies or special consideration of position are given, then it is a victimless crime. A free nation should not have punitive laws where there is not victim.

reply to post by Wolf321


Every lie that is believed has a victim somewhere. It may be passed four people down and the fourth person becomes a victim. Because the person saying the lie does not directly benefit from the lie doesn't mean they don't indirectly benefit from it. They promote lying in this country. Plea bargaining happens all the time in our court system, this sheilds honest people's perception of the true nature of the criminal. Just because most people lie, doesn't mean it's right.

Originally posted by rickymouse
reply to post by Wolf321

 

Every lie that is believed has a victim somewhere. It may be passed four people down and the fourth person becomes a victim. Because the person saying the lie does not directly benefit from the lie doesn't mean they don't indirectly benefit from it. They promote lying in this country. Plea bargaining happens all the time in our court system, this sheilds honest people's perception of the true nature of the criminal. Just because most people lie, doesn't mean it's right.

Oh no, some lies are right and totally acceptable. Like when you wife asks "Do I look fat"? Even if she is fat you say no because you want to get laid. And of course, at the risk of breaking Godwin's law, I'll bring up the old "Hiding a Jew in the house" question. Of course you lie. Some lies make society go smoother and some lies are the moral course in certain situations. You certainly should never lie about being in the military, I just have to point of the absolutist nature of your statements. Everyone lies, and some of those lies are ok to tell. We just use the absolutist language to keep people from telling lies that hurt others/

The SCTOUS will probably strike this down like they have every bill that attempts to do this. Even tacky speech is free speech.

reply to post by rickymouse


I am not saying it is right to lie. I am saying this particular type of lying, when there is no victim, should not be a codified law.

ETA: All forms of lying are not illegal now. If we are to make it illegal to lie, then every single person would be guilty. Certainly no lawmaker would ever be allowed to walk free.

hmmmmm, not only does this vote solidify my personal lack of faith in this Congress, it also has me wondering ... would such a law apply to the "denial" of service equally ??
and if so, is that the real message here ??

Is there anything left in the U.S. that is legal anymore?

I think this is going a little too far. Jail time is gonna be a joke in the future, as everyone will have a stay there once or twice during their lives.

this things a mess, like the poster seabag said there are ways of dealing with this nonsense already. no need to ad yet another law. Not only is it useless but could actuly be used against well meaning vets that are suffering from sever ptsd.
i dont know, it just dose not sit well whith me. To many grey areas to be locking up civilians for it let alone our men and women here to protect our rights
i can only imagine the people who do lie about this stuff are dirt bags con men or folks who are mentality ill.

reply to post by thesungod


How about making it a crime to engage the military for individual benefit as well then?

2nd liine.

I feel like they pass these stupid laws just to shut everyone up about the real problems. For the record I have nothing against it being passed, it seems like COMMON SENSE to me, I know that's an abstract concept for the politicians. For them it's all about staying with your herd, whether it's donkeys or elephants, and collecting a pension. Must be nice.

Romney and Ryan are lying to try and win the Presidency. And they will benefit financially if it happens.

Shouldn't the law apply to them as well?

About time.

Lieing about your service doesn't just stop at someone telling a few unbelievable tales down your local, this is a serious problem within the security industry in particular.

Picture someone lieing thier butt off about thier qualifications and service, especially active service, then finding out in the middle of a job when the SHTF that they've never seen a firefight in thier life.

Thats when it gets serious.

At the end of the day, any decent employer would do thier homework and do a background check for this kind of thing.....but it would be nice if they didn't have to.

Any good stories about this kind of thing? Take a look in this post i did in BTS....

Whats the funniest, most farfetched "Walt" story you've heard?

CX.

Originally posted by thesungod


Doesn't go far enough imo, but at least it stop those who are trying to profit from lies. I don't lie about my service, neither should you. Even if you just checked IDs on a gate. You have done more than most.

What do you mean " Doesn't go far enough" ?

If your using the act to defraud, sure that should be a crime, but if your using the act just to be silly because you enjoy people at the bar thinking your a WWII general then there is no harm done and it's perfectly legal. Even the Supreme Court says so.

So.. what's you definition of " Doesn't go far enough" ?

I don't know if i agree with this. Wasting taxpayer's money on jailing someone for lying about military service isnt a good idea, imo. Any military man and woman should have the complete understanding that they are doing their job, you know, the thing we are paid to do. It is all voluntary, and you do nothing that you haven't volunteered for, and you are doing nothing that would not be required if the draft was instated.

I find it hard saying a war is honorable or joining the military is honorable. You are doing a job, a job that if you didn't do, someone else would.

Lying about military service? Trivial. So many people do it; I learned not to care any more.

Military is just that, the Military. There is nothing honorable about it. It is your duty.

ALL American's duty.

If you think you are going to earn something special for being in the military, then you need to get out as soon as possible. You have the possibility of dying, and I promise you; you will be a name on a board, a rock, or a dying memory of an aging friend.

Volunteer for the military because you want to better yourself in discipline and have peace of mind that you did your part, you did your duty. Don't join the military expecting people to thank you for doing your duty as a citizen of the states.

---

So you lied about Military service? Big deal. Last thing we need is tax payer money being wasted on something so trivial and stupid.

As it was once so painfully put to me.
You. Are. Expendable. Replaceable.

Picture someone lieing thier butt off about thier qualifications and service, especially active service, then finding out in the middle of a job when the SHTF that they've never seen a firefight in thier life

An employer can check background instead of taking every statement as absolute truth. People constantly lie for their own benefit. A law would not stop the person from getting the job...

reply to post by DataWraith


Because it's about fraud?

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


My definition of doesn't go far enough has already posted in the thread. When I said that I meant "It doesn't go far enough for all groups. Politicians and such included.

To both of you, please read whole threads before posting. Both of these topics have already been addressed in this thread.

America is a Nation of crooks. Congress also found out and is working on a Bill to cap Bonuses for Veterans Affairs Executive position folk.

The top Executives in the US Department of Veterans Affairs LIED to get themselves $4 million in Bonuses annually:

www.dodbuzz.com...

In 2011 the VA paid out $400 MILLION in bonuses to it's employees......$400 million is enough they could have hired 11,111 new employees and paid them $36,000 each.

Talk about stealing!!!!!!!! Obama's appointees into that Executive Branch have been pilfering the pooch instead of using the money to care for the nations veterans. Sad isnt?

Originally posted by thesungod


Doesn't go far enough imo, but at least it stop those who are trying to profit from lies. I don't lie about my service, neither should you. Even if you just checked IDs on a gate. You have done more than most.

I just hope the Senate passes it too.

I've included a link from the AZ Central that spins it as "Congress courts veterans leading up to election", but I don't agree with it. Just giving another piece of the puzzle.

www.statesman.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I understand your point, but don't we already have laws against fraud? Lying about your service for gain, such as on a job application, or to recieve benefits, or to get people to give you money should already be covered by existing fraud statutes, right?

Originally posted by thesungod
reply to post by DataWraith

 

Because it's about fraud?

Like WMD's in Iraq?

This is BS.
Dont people understaand that its human nature to lie? Exagerate?or just lie to make an excuse that wont hurt feelings etc.....
Lying is a trait of being conscious.everyone does it......
The irony of a house of liars making this law......its just too much to take....
This law then makes George Bush a felon.
Look at the way he so unsubtly stole the honour of those who fought in Iraq.