House makes lying about military service a crime

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posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 04:53 PM
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House makes lying about military service a crime


www.statesman.com

WASHINGTON — Those who lie about military service or make false claims about receiving military medals with the intent of benefiting from those claims would be committing a crime under legislation passed by the House Wednesday.

The House's 410-3 vote on what is known as the Stolen Valor Act came less than three months after the Supreme Court struck down the original act on the grounds that it violated First Amendment free speech rights.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.cbsnews.com
www2.tbo.com
www.azcentral.com[/ url]
[url=http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-09-13/house-makes-lying-about-military-service-a-crime]www.businessweek.com




posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 04:53 PM
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Doesn't go far enough imo, but at least it stop those who are trying to profit from lies. I don't lie about my service, neither should you. Even if you just checked IDs on a gate. You have done more than most.

I just hope the Senate passes it too.

I've included a link from the AZ Central that spins it as "Congress courts veterans leading up to election", but I don't agree with it. Just giving another piece of the puzzle.

www.statesman.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:03 PM
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reply to post by thesungod
 


Well I must say, it's about time, but it makes me wonder what the ulterior motive is.
Votes? Maybe.
Incumbents scared that they have pissed off the wrong group, and are throwing them a bone?
At a time when conservative Vets are considered potential terrorists it makes you wonder.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:05 PM
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While it is reprehensible for someone to do this, does there really need to be a law against questionable character? If so, then they should go all the way and make it illegal to lie about anything. Make it a stiff 2 years in jail.

Think about it. People lie for personal gain all the time; politicians, bankers, police and lawyers are the worst. Catch them in a lie and it's jail. This would be good for society.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:06 PM
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this is whack! just chiping away at free speech not good imo
why further alienate veterans or for that matter people who wish thay were
and what if say your not proud of your service and you omit is that against the law to? its messed up
edit on 13-9-2012 by jplaysguitar because: fixed one liner



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by thesungod
 

how far would you have them go ? seeing how its not far enough??



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by jplaysguitar
 


The better question is "Should the first amendment protect lies?"



While it is reprehensible for someone to do this, does there really need to be a law against questionable character? If so, then they should go all the way and make it illegal to lie about anything. Make it a stiff 2 years in jail.

Think about it. People lie for personal gain all the time; politicians, bankers, police and lawyers are the worst. Catch them in a lie and it's jail. This would be good for society.


Lies do nothing but deteriorate society.

ETA: I mean your on ATS, wouldn't you like to see all these people busted over their lies and the truth come out?
edit on 13-9-2012 by thesungod because: see eta



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by thesungod
 

well i got news for you as long as ppl began to speak thay began to lie . and its perfectly legal unless you lie about service aparently


eta : no way , dont get me wrong im not in favor of lies but.how would this work? and
does the size of the lie matter,who decides that?
are thay liers? its a very slippery orwelien slope
edit on 13-9-2012 by jplaysguitar because: respoded to edit
edit on 13-9-2012 by jplaysguitar because: spelling



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:21 PM
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Very funny! So, a House of liars acting like they represent the people of the U.S., decides that lying about your identity is a crime?! Now that is ironic.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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reply to post by jplaysguitar
 


Fraud is lying. Would you have us let fraud go too?


Fraud is generally defined in the law as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact made by one person to another with knowledge of its falsity and for the purpose of inducing the other person to act, and upon which the other person relies with resulting injury or damage. Fraud may also be made by an omission or purposeful failure to state material facts, which nondisclosure makes other statements misleading.

To constitute fraud, a misrepresentation or omission must also relate to an 'existing fact', not a promise to do something in the future, unless the person who made the promise did so without any present intent to perform it or with a positive intent not to perform it. Promises to do something in the future or a mere expression of opinion cannot be the basis of a claim of fraud unless the person stating the opinion has exclusive or superior knowledge of existing facts which are inconsistent with such opinion. The false statement or omission must be material, meaning that it was significant to the decision to be made.

Source

ETA:

raud covers a lot of ground, but it can be divided into more specific groups based on common actions, victims and charges: Credit card fraud: Includes unauthorized use of credit card information or personal information to obtain credit cards. May include actions taken to obtain credit card or personal information. Securities and investment fraud: A number of actions involving stocks and business fall into this category, including insider trading, "pump and dump" schemes, "boiler rooms" and Ponzi schemes. Communications and wire fraud: Fraud perpetrated over telecommunications, including Internet and telephones. May be charged in conjunction with other fraud offenses. Identity fraud: Also known as identity theft, includes illegal and unauthorized gain and use of personal information. May overlap with other types of fraud. Business fraud: May include fraud perpetrated by and against business. May involve embezzlement, false advertising, false billing and even bankruptcy fraud. False representation: Includes scams and charlatanism, from "Three Card Monte" games to marriage fraud. Bank and loan fraud: Opening up accounts under false identities, applying for loans with the intent to file bankruptcy, check forgery. Check fraud: Includes any attempt to obtain funds from a bank to which you are not entitled, from writing bad checks to check forgery. Tax evasion: Any attempts, by individuals or businesses, to avoid paying taxes owed, including hiding assets, understating income and overvaluing deductions. Insurance fraud: Efforts to claim benefits to which you are not entitled, also includes fraudulent Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid claims. Welfare Fraud: Providing fake identification, posing as someone else or lying about number of family members to collect welfare benefits to which you are not entitled.
edit on 13-9-2012 by thesungod because: see eta



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by thesungod
 


not if there is financial or property damages no!
i get its a touchy subject and people who lie about service discredits and offends thousand who have not lied but we supposedly live in a free country
edit on 13-9-2012 by jplaysguitar because: grammer



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:41 PM
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It is illegal to impersonate a police officer or government employee. Maybe they're just thinking it should be iilegal to impersonate a former soldier as well as a current one.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:44 PM
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reply to post by jplaysguitar
 


Lying curtails freedom. False-flag attacks are lies used to get aim X done, against the will of the people. For example.

Freedom is being able to speak the truth no matter what, not reciting lies.

"Liars when they speak the truth are not believed."
- Aristotle

"We know the truth, not only by the reason, but also by the heart."
- Blaise Pascal



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:46 PM
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reply to post by thesungod
 


besides i thought the resone we as a country faught and continue together fight wars was to perserv the freedomes we have.
key word being free



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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I think most are missing the "with intent to benefit" part of the law.

I was a soldier for a long time. As long as there are soldiers there will be war stories. As long as there are war stories there will be lies.

It the same as fishing. No body is going to charge you for telling outlandish fishing stories. However, if you lie about catching a fish to win a tourny, you will most likely be charged.
edit on 13-9-2012 by 200Plus because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:50 PM
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Wow... i don't really see this as a bad thing or good thing. It is what it is. I don't understand why someone would want to lie about that anyway. Personally, I wouldn't want to be associated.

This last 4th of July, I was at the store picking up some stuff. The guy in front of me did one of those, "Ahhh, I love this day. It's my favorite holiday," as he was getting rung up. The store owner who was ringing up his stuff, this Korean guy, said, "Oh... Are you a veteran?" The guy says he is and the owner proceeds to ask him when he served. The guy says he served in Vietnam. Store owner asks him when he served and the dude says he was there from 75-78. The store owner proceeds to start asking him tons of questions and asks him over n over if he was there when he says he was. Asking him how old he is, all this stuff. None of his story is adding up. The guy freaks out and finally just leaves after his stuff has been bagged. I come up next and the store owner tells me, "He's a liar! The war was already over by then!" I started laughing and said, "I know."

I really couldn't understand why he would lie about such a thing. It makes no sense to me. If 4th of July was really his favorite holiday, he could have given a billion other reasons why. There's tons of reasons to love 4th of July. But why lie about being in the military? So strange. The saddest part though is the man looked as if he was at the very least alive and of an age where he could remember when the war ended. I couldn't believe that i, someone atleast 20 years younger and the Korean guy, an immigrant, knew more about the history of the country than he did.



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by jplaysguitar
 


Once again a lie told to keep us in check and keep the war machine going. I say this as a man that fought in Iraq.

I bought the lie, once I got back I opened my eyes to why I was sent to Iraq instead of Afghanistan.
edit on 13-9-2012 by thesungod because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by charles1952
 

i can see those laws because police and govt employees are out and about in our communitys but last i checked military only operates in foreign lands or on a base here but idk
ether it seems like it really wont do much to serve the american people



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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Some people need to lie about their service. I mean I was in the Coast Guard and covered the Great Lakes but I also covered the fresh water on the far side of the moon and if I put that in a resume people would think I was a nut cake. Hang em high but be fair about it



posted on Sep, 13 2012 @ 06:00 PM
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Police state

lol no, it's fraud and should be persecuted, especially if it is for financial gain
edit on 13-9-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)





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