Why Masons do not worship Lucifer (or Satan)

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Erbal

 

You're right, you know more than me about the Code & Digest...

OK, if you are an expert and have a superior understanding that I can't compete with... give a good explanation of the case you are making. A good explanation, not the typical crappy explanation you normally give... demonstrate your superior understanding and expert knowledge.

We have heard ad nausem you guys going over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over the same idea. Did I forget to mention over and over? How about let us speak on something else in regards to this conversation. "Regular" Masonry (a term not having any true meaning anyway) is by its own self terminology indicative of the fact that they are not the only Masonry out there. There are those of us who follow the Liberal Continental GOdF Masonry, and not the UGLE Anglo Saxon Masonry. In fact I know "Regular" Masons who will tell you they are Deists, and I know "Regular" Masons who are Satanists which goes right against the idea that a Mason must believe in a totally monotheistic Western European Jesus concept of God which is a ridiculous assertion to make in the first place. This of course does not even get into the bigger issue of trying to dictate an individual's esoteric path which goes against the idea of the depuration of the ego. A Mason can worship Lucifer if they want to as I do. Note as well when I say Mason I did not say Man. A woman can equally be a Mason instead of being subjugated to a lesser position in the Eastern Star. We as Liberal Masons view men and women as equals, and further that we do not become spiritual imbalanced in our temples like an all male jurisdiction could become, or as certain religious traditions have become with their all male priesthoods. As a Mason I reject the Demuirg who has created this world who is known as "The Grand Architect Of The Universe". I worship Lucifer in the Gnostic sense of the term, and in line with the high refinement of the mind like Prometheus. I do not believe in the false god Saklas of this world, but the true god. Further, I do not have an internal need to impose my religious beliefs on another person, or require one or the lack thereof they have in their quest for enlightenment. I see Masonry from my vantage point and jurisdiction as having a distinct separtion of Religion and Temple.

Originally posted by Erbal
So no specific examples to a specific question, just vague answers? Is it a secret?

Specific examles? You asked me if I see a difference and I said 'no' several times. What part of my answer do you still not understand.

Originally posted by ExuLucifer
There are those of us who follow the Liberal Continental GOdF Masonry, and not the UGLE Anglo Saxon Masonry.

The conversation is about regular Masonry. That has been pretty clear for about 700 posts now.

Originally posted by Erbal
...so far you guys have only shown 1 Grand Lodge who made that choice but many who have no made that choice.

Here is another:

The Supreme Being

Masons believe that there is one God. Grand Lodge of Alaska

What is the word they use to describe belief in one God?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Erbal
So no specific examples to a specific question, just vague answers? Is it a secret?

Specific examles? You asked me if I see a difference and I said 'no' several times. What part of my answer do you still not understand.

Clearly you do not understand... maybe your web of lies has you feeling lost.

You said you feel there is no distinction between the faith-based requirements to become a member and the actual Masonic teachings once you are a member.

I would like an example of a monotheistic teaching that YOU feel has no distinction from the requirements to become a member.

An even simpler way of putting it: show us you aren't making stuff up and outright lying when YOU said you see no distinction.

Originally posted by Erbal
...so far you guys have only shown 1 Grand Lodge who made that choice but many who have no made that choice.

Uh, oh. Here is another:

Freemasonry is *not* a religion. However, every Mason professes a belief in a monotheistic deity. From a Lodge Operating in the Grand Jurisidiction of Viriginia

Are they just making up their own rules at that lodge? My educated guess is NO.

Originally posted by ExuLucifer
We have heard ad nausem you guys going over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over the same idea. Did I forget to mention over and over? How about let us speak on something else in regards to this conversation. "Regular" Masonry (a term not having any true meaning anyway) is by its own self terminology indicative of the fact that they are not the only Masonry out there. There are those of us who follow the Liberal Continental GOdF Masonry, and not the UGLE Anglo Saxon Masonry. In fact I know "Regular" Masons who will tell you they are Deists, and I know "Regular" Masons who are Satanists which goes right against the idea that a Mason must believe in a totally monotheistic Western European Jesus concept of God which is a ridiculous assertion to make in the first place. This of course does not even get into the bigger issue of trying to dictate an individual's esoteric path which goes against the idea of the depuration of the ego. A Mason can worship Lucifer if they want to as I do. Note as well when I say Mason I did not say Man. A woman can equally be a Mason instead of being subjugated to a lesser position in the Eastern Star. We as Liberal Masons view men and women as equals, and further that we do not become spiritual imbalanced in our temples like an all male jurisdiction could become, or as certain religious traditions have become with their all male priesthoods. As a Mason I reject the Demuirg who has created this world who is known as "The Grand Architect Of The Universe". I worship Lucifer in the Gnostic sense of the term, and in line with the high refinement of the mind like Prometheus. I do not believe in the false god Saklas of this world, but the true god. Further, I do not have an internal need to impose my religious beliefs on another person, or require one or the lack thereof they have in their quest for enlightenment. I see Masonry from my vantage point and jurisdiction as having a distinct separtion of Religion and Temple.

Thank you for sharing.

I guess I am too forgiving, I've given them about 300 chances to prove this universal landmark of monotheism true for at least "regular" Freemasonry.

Obviously they have failed miserably and they are essentially trying to cheat their way into "winning."

I think their entire engagement in this discussion speaks volumes about the truth, and the truth is there is enough religious freedom within Freemasonry for it to be totally absurd and ridiculous to claim any worship of Lucifer cannot or does not exist amongst Masons.

Originally posted by Erbal
Clearly you do not understand... maybe your web of lies has you feeling lost.

The only perfidious person present is posting petulant points of irrelevancy.

I would like an example of a monotheistic teaching that YOU feel has no distinction from the requirements to become a member.

An even simpler way of putting it: show us you aren't making stuff up and outright lying when YOU said you see no distinction.

The numerous references in the ritual to God for starters.

Originally posted by Erbal
...so far you guys have only shown 1 Grand Lodge who made that choice but many who have no made that choice.

Oh, boy. Here is another:

What are the Ancient Landmarks?

...

1. Monotheism, the sole dogma of Freemasonry. The Grand Lodge of Minnesota

Do you here that pounding? That is the sound of nails being driven into the coffin of your pathetic arguement.

Originally posted by Erbal
...so far you guys have only shown 1 Grand Lodge who made that choice but many who have no made that choice.

No, not again. Here is another:

We must let the world know that we are open to membership of men of all faiths and creeds so long as they believe in the monotheistic God. From a Lodge Operating in the Grand Jurisidiction of Massachusetts

Are you starting to get the picture?

Originally posted by Erbal
...so far you guys have only shown 1 Grand Lodge who made that choice but many who have no made that choice.

Here is another in Massachusetts:

A Masonic requirement is monotheism, a belief in one God. Sourcing stuff, because it is fun

I am not even close to being finished.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

1) You claimed that Christianity preached that the 'devil' rules over 'hell'. I have thoroughly proved that that belief is not held in any official sense in either the Roman Catholic or Protestant religious bodies. You then cite a story written by Dante which became very popular but fail to provide any documentation showing adopted as official doctrine. Your two quotes also have failed to provide any documentation of them being official doctrine.

You claim that you included Dante's works in your original claim which is a flat out lie. Lucifer is not identified as Satan but as the leader of the fallen angels. You claimed that hell and torture are strictly Christian which has also been proven false. You claim Satan is a purely Christian concept after disregarding the Hebrew Bible which includes Ha Satan as the accuser or the opposer and is not identified as a fallen angel but rather as an individual or a body of peoples. You misunderstand the very nature of the terms you are using.

You clearly have a poor conception of the issue at hand and it would do you well to research the matter further before you continue arguing something for which you have demonstrated little working knowledge of.

2) You claim that honor and worship come from the same old English which is also not supported by the dictionary which you have identified as being worthy of defining terms. Honor and worship do not come from the same roots.

oxforddictionaries.com...

Origin:

Middle English: from Old French onor (noun), onorer (verb), from Latin honos, honor

oxforddictionaries.com...

Origin:

Old English weorthscipe 'worthiness, acknowledgement of worth' (see worth, -ship)

The masonic definition is then disingenuous in its use per the terms definition.

oxforddictionaries.com...

Definition of disingenuous
adjective

not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does:

3) The great seal of the United States:

The armorial eagle (the eagle on the great seal) was heraldic long before speculative masonry and known as the was the phoenix of the alchemical tradition. The masons adopted its use early and proof of this can be found on a jug dated 1804 at the museum of the Grand Lodge, in Queen Anne Street London. Around the image of the eagle is a quotation attributed to Jefferson: "Peace, Commerce and honest Friendship with all Nations. Entangling Alliances with none." (summary of excerpt from Secret Architecture of Our Nations Capital - David Ovason)

The only architectural pyramid in Wasington D.C. (ignoring the pyramid proposed as the original Washington monument to which the later was capped with a pyramideon) which seems to reflect the seal pyramid is distinctly masonic. The great tower of the House of the Temple, designed for Scottish Right Freemasons, at 1733 16th St consists of a truncated pyramid. . . an adaptation of the tomb of King Mausolus at Halicarnassus. (David Ovason)

The idea of a truncated pyramid for the seal was first proposed by William Barton. The pyramid was already widely used as a symbol in masonic fraternities in Europe, and we should therefore not be surprised that it should have been proposed in the context of a national symbol for a republic guided by so many freemasons. (David Ovason)

(The pyramid) had been widely used in British lodges prior to the declaration of independence, and was certainly known and used in American lodges during this period. Some of these pyramidic images are still preserved in public and Masonic museums, including a number in the museum of the Freemason's Hall in London. . . . . circa 1770, is a first-period Worcester tankard, which shows a pyramid with a stellar globe over the apex. . . . also in the collection is an apron circa 1789, painted for, and sold by, Brother Berring of Greenwich, displaying two pyramids. (David Ovason).

. . . the pyramid appears with startling frequency on 18th and 19th century French and English Masonic aprons. (See reproduction used by Manly P Hall now in the collection of the Masonic Temple, Supreme Council, Washington D.C.).

Martin Folkes, as Deputy Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of England minted a bronze medal depicting a pyramid with a notch at the thirteenth step in 1742.(David Ovason)

The pyramid was prominent among the masons from the time and though the men responsible for the design are not officially masons it is clear that the symbolism is masonic and the men surrounding the project were overwhelmingly masons.

Of course to understand the symbolism one must pursue Hermetic tradition which has been greatly argued against by certain members of this discussion.

Originally posted by Erbal
...so far you guys have only shown 1 Grand Lodge who made that choice but many who have no made that choice.

The horror! Here is another:

What are Ancient Landmarks?

These are:

a. Monotheism, the sole dogma of Freemasonry (one God). From a Lodge Operating in the Grand Jurisdiction of Washington

More? No problem.

reply to post by Erbal


Augustus is basing his theory that regular masons cannot worship Lucifer/Satan/Whatever because there is a clause stating one must have BELIEF in a Supreme Being.

The schism largely comes from his misunderstanding of the definition of worship. He thinks that worship entails only to that of a deity which does not follow the definition of the term. He also ignores the declaration of belief rather than worship of said Supreme Being which are two entirely different things.

It is simple to see where the issue stems from with his occluded understanding of the definition of the terms.

Originally posted by Erbal
...so far you guys have only shown 1 Grand Lodge who made that choice but many who have no made that choice.

More crazy monotheists from Virgina:

Belief in a monotheistic Supreme Being is an essential requirement for membership... Linky-Link

Be right back...

reply to post by Erbal


Indeed, there is no universal landmark, and no Grand Lodge save one, that AugustusMasonica is correct in asserting, that does require some monotheistic belief. Which means you were correct in asserting that there are "Regular" Masons who worship Lucifer. I can further state this as being a former "Regular" Mason, which means I was a "Regular" Mason who believed in this idea. As I stated previously I personally know "Regular" Masons who are Deists and who are Satanists I sat in tyled lodge with these individuals. I know Masons who are Muslim, Masons who follow African Traditional Religions, and Masons who follow a myriad of other religious traditions and paths. As a Liberal Mason I know Athiest Masons, Agnostic Masons, and *gasp* Female Masons.

Originally posted by Erbal
...so far you guys have only shown 1 Grand Lodge who made that choice but many who have no made that choice.

Miss me? Thought so. More Monotheistic Minnesotan Masons:

Masons must believe in a monotheistic religion This Time in a Newspaper Quote No Less

Montheistic? You betcha.

Originally posted by ExuLucifer
Indeed, there is no universal landmark, and no Grand Lodge save one...

Guess you missed all the ones above you.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


No where does any Christian text state that Lucifer nor Satan are Supreme Beings, all the texts state that the being is below the Supreme Being.

How does monotheism or belief in a Supreme Being affect this as belief is not worship and worship is not limited to a deity (see definition posted an absurd number of times which you fail to recognize)?