It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why Masons do not worship Lucifer (or Satan)

page: 35
52
<< 32  33  34    36  37  38 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 10:31 PM
link   
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


President Woodrow Wilson 1913-1921 - Freemason
www.themasonictrowel.com...



Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.


Wilson was openly referring to the 'capital' powers of the world but if one actually looks into the matter and the logos and signs by which these 'capital' powers operate under then much is revealed to those with the 'eyes to see'. They are not strictly masonic symbols, though masons do hold many seats in its high ranks (and low), but those of the mysteries I mentioned earlier.

example:Memphis Pyramid Arena ( en.wikipedia.org... )
( memphis.about.com... )


Its unique structure plays on the city's namesake in Egypt, known for its ancient pyramids.




Isaac Tigrett, the Jackson, Tenn.-raised businessman and New Ager who founded both the Hard Rock Café and House of Blues. Of course the Hard Rock Cafe incorporates a sun image, indicating sun god worship. . . . a picture of Tigrett, sitting in the lotus position in front of the Pyramid, is featured from the November 1990 cover of American Way, the American Airlines in-flight magazine.

Tigrett, son of Pyramid founder John Tigrett, was heavily involved in seeing to the building of the Great American Pyramid near the Memphis’s Mississippi River riverfront. John Tigrett and Sidney Shlenker were initially the men behind the “Grand Plan” of the Pyramid, although Shlenker was not keen on the crystal skull angle.

Deeply involved in eastern mysticism, eastern religious beliefs and esoteric beliefs, Isaac Tigrett (who married Beatle drummer Ringo Starr’s ex-wife, Maureen Cox Starkey, who would die in 1994) became a follower of Indian guru Sathya Sai Baba.



On the 'Whore (idolator) of Babylon' it is said that she represented Rome and its seven hills and that is true in a sense and a popular interpretation among masons is that they came from operative masonry in Rome. Rome merely inherited their practices largely from Greece (the mysteries from Egypt) and surrounding nations which often bear stunning resemblances in their iconography which is no surprise as the religions of ancient man were those of the stars (astrotheology). What is interesting is the commonality of the imagery used in depictions between the various mysteries. Another popular interpretation of masons is that they arose from the mysteries themselves which is straight forward in its connection to the 'Whore of Babylon' and has been supported by many a revered mason. Of course Babylon is Sumer which had its practices adopted by the Egyptians which is another popular origin point of masonry. Let us not forget that masons have their own record of time keeping which various between sects of masonry ( masonicdictionary.com... ).

Anno Lucis of craft freemasonry adds 4000 years to the common era which is a throw back to the establishment of Sumeria and Egypt ( en.wikipedia.org... )

scottish right adds 3760 to the modern date which goes back to a similar period.

Of course this could all be B.S. about their dating system. If it is symbolic then it is a clear reference to the beginnings of the craft (another name associated with 'magic') in Egypt and Sumeria the founders of the mysteries all its progeny hence.

Of course this only applies if their is any truth in the Bible to be taken and if not then I would question as to why it is so prominent and oft quoted from in masonic ritual?

I think the vast overwhelming majority of masons do not know much about the origins of the practices, symbols, and rights (or experiences you could say) of masonry and are really only in it for the halo effect of membership or comradery (which I do not hold against them in the least).




posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 05:25 AM
link   
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


What if I told you that the five pointed star that is "all over masonry" is actually no masonic, but part of the Eastern Star? That is a group, like masonry, but not the same. They use the star as a symbol and they usually share a lodge with masons, so their symbolism will be present during our meetings, just as our symbolism is present during their meetings. Yet they are not connected.

Then you have the pyramid. We have gone over symbols and while I won't tell you what isn't used (since I do remember the coffin that I was wrong about) I will tell you that if it is a masonic symbol, it's not very important since none of us have seen it used or had it explained in a masonic context. If you can find a masonic reference to it, then like the coffin, I will have learned something.

So two of your major points are not exactly as you thought them to be. How does that affect your whole presentation?


And: No, masons are not "against" any religion, least of all Christians. I'd say 95% of my lodge is made up of Christians. I consider myself to be one. We sit back and try to discuss esoteric things and not bother anyone, then get slammed with Bible verses showing us how we unknowingly worship Lucifer or the Devil, then get told we have all sorts of magical powers, by these certain type of Christians. They all seem to have the same thing in common. They jumped the broom from "regular" to "fanatical" and they tend to loose sight of their original claim of trying to be Christ Like, they turn into self appointed Christ Police. And they use just as much power as a corrupt cop.


I am curious, have you ever been to the Scottish Rite Temple in DC?



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 09:18 AM
link   
reply to post by network dude
 


Are these accusatory Christians members of your lodge?

I never claimed the average mason has anything like 'magical' power. Not that most masons would recognize magic when they came in contact with it as you say they prefer the masonic interpretation. I am of the opinion that masonry as a whole has an order within it which still caries the 'wisdom of the ages' as one put it.

On the five pointed star. You say it is simply the symbol of the eastern star lodge (interesting Steve Wozniak of Apple was a member) yet I said it was seen all over freemasonry.

freemasonry.bcy.ca...


The masonic significance of the pentagram is controversial. While it often appears on masonic regalia and decorative illustration, nowhere is it mentioned in masonic rituals or lectures. This does not mean though, that individual freemasons, aware of its historical usage, have not used it to illustrate their own personal interpretations of Freemasonry.

The "Blazing Star" of masonic usage is not to be confused with the five-pointed star. Early tracing boards depict a sixteen or fifteen point star, one notable five pointed pentalpha and a number of "glories" with no discernable number of points. Mackey points out that the earlier tracing boards depicted a star with five straight points superimposed over one with five wavy points.

Freemasonry has traditionally been associated with Pythagoras, and among Pythagoreans, the pentagram was a symbol of health and knowledge; the pentagram is consequently associated with initiation, as it is in masonic iconography. From Coil’s Encyclopedia: "The Pentalpha is said to have had a great many symbolic and mystical meanings, but it has no application to Freemasonry...."

Mackey tells us "The Medieval Freemason considered it a symbol of deep wisdom, and it is found among the architectural ornaments of most of the ecclesiastical edifices of the Middle Ages." There are also many examples of both the pentagram and five-pointed star being used as stonemasons' marks during the Mediaeval cathedral building period. Although claims have been made for earlier usage, the greater number of examples date from the twelfth through sixteenth centuries. [1] George Godwin claims that these marks were handed down from generation to generation and could still be found up until the nineteenth century. [2]

One notable early use of a pentalpha in Freemasonry is the mark of Sir Robert Moray, who used it when he signed the Minutes of the Lodge of Edinburgh, Mary’s Chapel sometime after his initiation on May 20, 1641. He is recorded as using it in his signature prior to this date so, although he referred to it as his mason’s mark, it was not derived from masonic teachings. Later it appears on the titlepage of a collection of masonic lectures, The Spirit of Masonry, published in 1775.

The use of a five-pointed star or pentagram in some Grand Lodge seals and banners as well as on the collar or jewels of office worn by the masters of lodges and Grand Masters of Grand Lodges is of interest to students of masonic history and art. But its absence from the ritual and lessons of Freemasonry point out that its value is ornamental and any symbolic value is a matter of personal opinion. Many masonic authors have expressed their opinions on the topic, but with no masonic authority.

The pentagram, or five-pointed star, can be interpreted as a representation of the golden ratio. The golden ratio was of great importance to architects and stonecutters. Whether early freemasons made this interpretation is a topic of some controversy.

Those who would freeze the angle of the compasses in the masonic square and compasses at 72° to equate it with the pentagram, ignore the many representations which set the angle at anywhere between 32° and 90°.
As regards that appendant body, the Order of the Eastern Star, Mackey notes that Rob Morris, author of their ritual, wrote that the choice of name was made to correspond to the masonic Five Points of Fellowship and the pentagon which he termed "The signet of King Solomon."


Pythagoras is most commonly depicted having extensive traveling done to Egypt and Mesopotamia and this is where his mathematics is taught to have been learned (See history of mathematics pg 44-50).

I have been to the House of the Temple.
edit on 2-11-2012 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 02:02 PM
link   

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


What if I told you that the five pointed star that is "all over masonry" is actually no masonic, but part of the Eastern Star? That is a group, like masonry, but not the same. They use the star as a symbol and they usually share a lodge with masons, so their symbolism will be present during our meetings, just as our symbolism is present during their meetings. Yet they are not connected.

Are you saying OES is not connected to Freemasonry?

Their main requirement was that you had to be a mother, daughter, sister, wife, or widow of a master Mason. Now that has been extended to more distant relatives of Masons. And the only men eligible for the OES are Master Masons.

Or are you saying the 5-pointed star symbolism of OES is not connected to Freemasonry?

It seems like OES and Masonry are connected in every sense of the word... the OES was invented by a Mason.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 02:44 PM
link   
reply to post by Erbal
 

When you use the term "Freemasonry" it is referring to the Blue Lodge

Is it connected to Freemasonry? Yes, an an appendant, recognized organization. Is all the symbolism tied to Freemasonry (aka the Blue Lodge)? No. The symbolism and legend of the Eastern Star is not connected to Freemasonry. Both the blazing star discussed in the 1st degree lecture and the star used in the Eastern Star both emblematically represent divinity, but Eastern Star is a bit more Christian in nature (although all faiths are welcomed in). And the use of the number 5 takes on a unique meaning in the Eastern Star than that seen in the Lodge. Similar symbols don't always mean they have the same meaning, interpretation, use, or intent.


It seems like OES and Masonry are connected in every sense of the word... the OES was invented by a Mason.

Rob Morris to be exact...an interesting character.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 02:56 PM
link   
reply to post by KSigMason
 


Connected, not identical.

The OES 5-pointed star points down.

The 5-point star in Christianity points up.


How is the OES 5-pointed star "Christian in nature?" I've never seen a Christian 5-point star that points down... I think the OES 5-pointed star is occult in nature.

en.wikipedia.org...
edit on 2-11-2012 by Erbal because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-11-2012 by Erbal because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 03:15 PM
link   
reply to post by Erbal
 



The emblem of the Order is a five-pointed star with the white ray of the star pointing downwards towards the manger. In the Chapter room, the downward-pointing white ray points to the West. The character-building lessons taught in the Order are stories inspired by Biblical figures:

link to source

I am not a member of the OES, but some family is. It's much more Christian than masonry is.
My sweet biscuit making mother in law is a member. She is as God Fearing as they come. Not a satanic bone in her body.

It is an apendant body to masonry, but not connected in the same sense that the Scottish Rite and York Rite are. (They are more of a continuation of the Blue lodge)



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 03:23 PM
link   
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
 


We do mention the Blazing star and the indented tessle as furniture of the lodge, but the Star is not specific as to a 5 pointed star to my knowledge. The Eastern star is what I thought you were getting at with your post, as it is usually in view inside most lodges in my area at least. We have some symbols that are barely mentioned and some that are driven into the ground. I tend to think the ones mentioned many, many times are done that way for a reason. Not to downplay the others, just putting them all in perspective.


If you take a tour of the house of Temple, you can get many of the questions answered. They even try to answer the satanic, Pike the evil guy, kind of questions. There is even a spot dedicated to anti-masonry there. I guess I am just not as heavy a conspiracy person as I thought. I just cannot see anything evil about masonry having been a part of it. It all makes sense and seems to focus on God.

As to the inner circle, if we could find any clues as to who might be a member, you would have a better chance of figuring out how the higherarchy works. Knowing how de-centralized the whole structure is, I cannot see any way it would be possible, unless it was a completely separate side order.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 03:59 PM
link   

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Erbal
 


It is an apendant body to masonry, but not connected in the same sense that the Scottish Rite and York Rite are. (They are more of a continuation of the Blue lodge)

I asked if you were implying OES is not connected to Freemasonry or if you were implying the OES star symbolism is not connected to Freemasonry.

Yes, it was hyperbole when I said OES is connected to Freemasonry is every sense of the word... an appendant body is pretty damn connected though, regardless of whether or not stronger connections exist.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 07:02 PM
link   
reply to post by Erbal
 

The star, regardless of position, has been used for various reasons. NetworkDude posted an important exerpt on the use of the Star in the Chapter.

There's nothing really occultic and the explanation is given during initiation.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 09:53 PM
link   
reply to post by KSigMason
 

Christianity might have a blurb in the history of the pentagram but the vast majority for the history of the pentagram is occult in nature and it goes all the way back to Babylon - well before Christianity came into existence.

The occult is not inherently bad or evil; the occult is just esoteric knowledge hidden from the public eye. That doesn't mean it has to be well hidden, just that it's not intended to be known by everyone.



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 08:47 PM
link   
reply to post by Erbal
 

Yes, but symbols are ambiguous and arbitrary.



posted on Nov, 3 2012 @ 10:33 PM
link   
I dunno does this look like Devil worship to you? Looks like a mid 80's hoopty to me - but hey who knows what goes on under those robes?

In my town the Masonic Lodge folded up shop a few years ago & they can't sell the building. So if it is Satan - they better change their message - cause it ain't workin....up here anyway.







edit on 3-11-2012 by BABYBULL24 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 05:59 AM
link   
reply to post by BABYBULL24
 


Please nothing mid to late 80's on here the second half of the eighties was one of the worst times in American history from style (kid and play box haircuts and mullets hairbands) to peoples attitudes i mean come on George Bush Sr president, it's why you see so many people nowadays copy stuff from the 70's and all because the 70's my friend had style and appeal....just kidding well not really.


Anyway as far as the topic in terms of the symbol of a star all the reading and research i have done said that if a star is pointing down it's satanic pointing metaphorically to hell and if a star is pointing up it's of god pointing to heaven that is the most common perception of the pointing of a star, i'v read other ideas on it as well but that is the most commen.





edit on 4-11-2012 by King Seesar because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 08:08 AM
link   

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Erbal
 

Yes, but symbols are ambiguous and arbitrary.


This statement is not supported by masonic literature.



"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry." (Morals and Dogma, p.819)


Of course this is merely one masons interpretation but it does imply an intended meaning to the symbols. Many other highly regarded masons (more highly than yourself) connect masonry and its symbols to the mysteries of Rome and/or the Mesopotamian cultures.

You seem to want the symbols to be ambiguous and arbitrary when in truth they do not appear to be either of those if you are familiar with the ancient uses of them.


Reply to BabyBull24

I am fairly confident in my belief that the 'devil' supposedly is a 'man of wealth and taste' and that vehicle is anything but. Obviously your lodge is receiving divine punishment for creating such a horrid icon for your temple. Also the headlights appear to be out which one could assume symbolically meaning you never received the light and so were never truly masons to begin with and were deceived all this time.

Who would have thought?
edit on 4-11-2012 by FriedBabelBroccoli because: 101



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 08:09 AM
link   
So i went to a salvation army store looking at bibles and other books. Found a mason Bible, (mason symbol on the cover)

From my conclusive evidence i can Conclude that Masons are Christians...



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 01:28 PM
link   

Originally posted by Jordan River
So i went to a salvation army store looking at bibles and other books. Found a mason Bible, (mason symbol on the cover)

From my conclusive evidence i can Conclude that Masons are Christians...

What does it mean to be a Christian?



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 01:39 PM
link   

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by Erbal
 

Yes, but symbols are ambiguous and arbitrary.

Yeah, symbols are open to interpretation and have double-meanings... so why are you pretending the OES pentagram is Christian in nature? It's such a stretch to claim the inverted OES pentagram is Christian in nature (there is no history of that being Christian in nature) it strongly suggests that is just the bogus cover story for people who don't ask questions and are easily deceived.

And just because something is arbitrary does not mean it was chosen randomly. In fact, arbitrary decisions are inherently random. And if a symbol is chosen specifically because it fits a group agenda, that symbol was not chosen in an arbitrary manner because it was not chosen solely on personal whim.



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 01:41 PM
link   
I have returned after dealing with the slight weather-related incident we had here in New Jersey.



Originally posted by Erbal
PROVE IT.


Once again, the proof is that there is mutual amity between all the Grand Lodges. If they had dropped any of the three Landmarks there would not be mutual amity or recognition. Some Grand Lodges list this such as the Grand Lodge of Pennsylvania.


LINK YOUR SOURCES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Sure.


www.indianafreemasons.com...

Basic Membership Requirements

Be a man at least 18 years of age
Be of good moral character
A Belief in God
Ask to join
Resident of Indiana (Minimum 6 months)

They even have a link to the membership petition... it doesn't mention monotheism at all, it only says a belief in God.


No mention at all? Really? Guess you missed this:


It is religious in that it teaches monotheism... Grand Lodge of Indiana




www.massfreemasonry.org...
www.glmasons-mass.org...


3. What are the requirements to become a Mason?
Anyone meeting the following primary requirements may petition a Massachusetts lodge for membership:
1. You are an adult male (18 or older) of good character and recommended by a Massachusetts Mason.
2. You believe in a Supreme Being – no atheist or agnostic can become a Mason – but we are not concerned with theological distinctions or your particular religious beliefs.


No monotheism, just theism!


Guess you missed this too:


It is religious in that it teaches monotheism... Grand Lodge of Massachusetts



Website seems to be offline right now.


Works fine now:


It is religious in that it teaches monotheism... Grand Lodge of Georgia




www.alafreemasonry.org...

Qualifications

Freemasonry is proud of its philosophy and practice of "making good men better." Only individuals believed to be of the finest character are favorably considered for membership. Every applicant must advocate his belief in the existence of a Supreme Being (atheists are not accepted into the Fraternity).


Theism is the requirement.


Uh, no, one God means Monotheism:


All Freemasons believe in one God and in respect for each other. Grand Lodge of Alabama




I showed you the recognized Louisiana Grand Lodge does NOT recognize monotheism as a requirement. That just so happened to be the first grand lodge I investigated and it seems pretty clear they have not adopted a monotheistic landmark of any kind.
www.la-mason.com...


You may want to get some reading glasses. The below quote is on their home page:


Instead, it is a friend of all religions which are based on the belief in one God.


Maybe you want to explain to me how a belief in ONE God does NOT equate to Monotheism.


Why don't you show me how LA has adopted a landmark of monotheism, or show me that this LA grand lodge is not recognized as meeting the standards of recognition.


I just did.


I have yet to see a Grand Lodge specify monotheism or a belief in one and only one Supreme Being.


Because you were not looking. Hopefully I cleared that up for you with all my nicely linked sources as your requested.


I called 5 Grand Lodges. I talked to one Grand Secretary. He said, as far as the God requirement, it's required you have belief in a God. I asked for clarification, I said I was a Mormon and I believed in more than a God.
He said they'd love to have a Mormon, he hopes we'll have a Mormon President. I was like OK, great, but I believe in more than 1 God and I'm not sure if I can join. He said they accept Hindu's, too. I was like OK, great, but I believe in more than 1 God and I'm not sure if I can join.


What state was this?


He seemed really nice but he never once told me I could not join if I believed in more than 1 God, in fact, he alluded to me being able to join.


Personally it seemed he was being polite and respectful.


Conclusion: I see no evidence monotheism is a real and effectively enforced landmark... only theism!


Actual conclusion: you now have it listed on multiple Grand Lodge sites proving otherwise.






edit on 4-11-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 01:43 PM
link   

Originally posted by helen6700
Hi AugustusMasonicus///

There was no early 'Roman Catholic' Church....the Early Church was Catholic(as in universal) when the East and West split.......and the concept of hell is as it was in the early Church....


I use that term for clarities sake when differentiating between the multiple sects of Christianity that now exist.


As for the original post.....
Nothing is HIDDEN from God.....all will be revealed!!!


Who mentioned hiding anything?




top topics



 
52
<< 32  33  34    36  37  38 >>

log in

join