Why Masons do not worship Lucifer (or Satan)

Originally posted by Erbal

Originally posted by network dude

Each State is independent. Like an entity all it's own. Yet they all practice the same thing. They all obey the ancient landmarks of masonry. As Ksig said, there are states that do not recognize other states. There are Grand lodges that do not recognize Prince Hall masons in some states. (only one or two in the deep south)

The Grand Lodge answers to no governing body.

Simple questions: Who sets these ancient landmarks? What happens when a Grand Lodge decides they no longer wish to obey the ancient landmarks of masonry? What happens when a lodge decides they no longer wish to obey their grand lodge?

They were decided when Speculative masonry was first formed. (key word is 'ancient")
They define what masonry is, so they cannot change or be reformed.

A Grand Lodge is free to be racially discriminatory to the extent they won't allow a black Mason inside their temple, but they are not free to allow non-monotheists in their ranks? Also, I thought you guys universally taught oneness, I guess in some areas you still teach 4/5th's-ness as well.

The ideas of what masonry is are not racist and every man meets on the level. Regardless of color, or social status. But masonry is made up of men. Not all of them are smart. So you may still have some men within our ranks who cling to outdated racial stereotypes. It's sad, ugly, and not at all what is supposed to happen. But human nature still exists.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Binsfield wrote a book of literature which was not endorsed by the official body and does not stand up to comparison with the scripture he based it off of. At least do some proper research into the field to come up with someone who actually possessed more than an ounce of authority as opposed to mere notoriety.

He was an auxiliary bishop
en.wikipedia.org...

An auxiliary bishop, in the Roman Catholic Church, is an additional bishop assigned to a diocese because the diocesan bishop is unable to perform his functions, the diocese is so extensive that it requires more than one bishop to administer, or the diocese is attached to a royal or imperial office needing the diocesan bishop's protracted location at court. According to canon law, no bishop can be ordained without title to a certain and distinct episcopal see which he governs either actually or potentially, therefore auxiliary bishops are titular bishops to sees that no longer exist.

en.wikipedia.org...

Titular bishop
A titular bishop in various churches is a bishop who is not in charge of a diocese. By definition a bishop is an "overseer" of a community of the faithful, so when a priest is ordained a bishop the tradition of the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches is that he be ordained for a specific place. As there are more bishops than there are dioceses, a bishop who will not functionally head a diocese or archdiocese (they are destined to be appointed, e.g., an auxiliary bishop, a papal diplomat, an official of the Roman Curia, etc., or have retired from one of those) is given title of bishop. This is often (though not always) to a titular see, i.e. a diocese that no longer functionally exists.

If we base beliefs off of what some auxiliary of an organization believes then there is an internet video of mason claiming he worships lucifer I could flaunt as evidence of masonic devil worship. However I know that does represent official teachings so I don't bother.

Face it, you have been fooled about Roman Catholic beliefs on the 'devil' and 'hell' by popular culture.

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
If we base beliefs off of what some auxiliary of an organization believes then there is an internet video of mason claiming he worships lucifer I could flaunt as evidence of masonic devil worship. However I know that does represent official teachings so I don't bother.

Face it, you have been fooled about Roman Catholic beliefs on the 'devil' and 'hell' by popular culture.

The early Roman Catholic Church created the concept of the Harrowing of Hell. If Hell, according to you, does not come to pass until Revelations how did they explain this?

"By the expression 'He descended into Hell', the Apostles' Creed confesses that Jesus did really die and through his death for us conquered death and the devil 'who has the power of death' (Hebrews 2:14). In his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened Heaven's gates for the just who had gone before him." Catechism of the Catholic Church, p. 636–7.

He conquered the Devil. How do you conquer something that has no authority and what was he doing there prior to Revelations?


This is not strictly a Roman Catholic belief either.

Martin Luther, in a sermon in 1533 stated:

The Formula of Concord (a Lutheran confession) states, "we believe simply that the entire person, God and human being, descended to Hell after his burial, conquered the devil, destroyed the power of Hell, and took from the devil all his power." (Solid Declaration, Art. IX)

How did Christ take from 'the devil all his power' if the Devil (Satan/Lucifer) was not a figure of authority? Again, how do you 'conquer the devil' if this is not the case?

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Erbal
I didn't say or imply they update landmarks every year, just that there are still annual conferences and any changes get updated.

And the three main Landmarks have not been altered since 1956.

PROVE IT.

Here are several Grand Lodges with the word 'monotheism' in their description or requirements:

From the Grand Lodge if Indiana:

LINK YOUR SOURCES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

www.indianafreemasons.com...

Basic Membership Requirements

Be a man at least 18 years of age
Be of good moral character
A Belief in God
Ask to join
Resident of Indiana (Minimum 6 months)

They even have a link to the membership petition... it doesn't mention monotheism at all, it only says a belief in God.

From the Massachusetts Grand Lodge website:

www.massfreemasonry.org...
www.glmasons-mass.org...

3. What are the requirements to become a Mason?
Anyone meeting the following primary requirements may petition a Massachusetts lodge for membership:
1. You are an adult male (18 or older) of good character and recommended by a Massachusetts Mason.
2. You believe in a Supreme Being – no atheist or agnostic can become a Mason – but we are not concerned with theological distinctions or your particular religious beliefs.

No monotheism, just theism!

From the Grand Lodge of Georgia:

Website seems to be offline right now.

From the Grand Lodge of Alabama help you:

www.alafreemasonry.org...

Qualifications

Freemasonry is proud of its philosophy and practice of "making good men better." Only individuals believed to be of the finest character are favorably considered for membership. Every applicant must advocate his belief in the existence of a Supreme Being (atheists are not accepted into the Fraternity).

Theism is the requirement.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by ErbalI showed you the recognized Louisiana Grand Lodge does NOT recognize monotheism as a requirement. That just so happened to be the first grand lodge I investigated and it seems pretty clear they have not adopted a monotheistic landmark of any kind.
www.la-mason.com...

Is that or is that not a recognized Grand Lodge of regular Freemasonry, in the US?
I don't understand what you are telling me I need to show you, you trailed off into some vague gibberish. Why don't you show me how LA has adopted a landmark of monotheism, or show me that this LA grand lodge is not recognized as meeting the standards of recognition.

Just because the exact verbage is not there does not mean that it is not being adhered to or is not a requirement. Belief in A (one) Supreme Being is a requirement in every Grand Lodge.

I have yet to see a Grand Lodge specify monotheism or a belief in one and only one Supreme Being.

Good. Then get back to me. I suggest you reach out to someone at the Grand Lodge level as they are responsible for ensuring that the Landmarks are adhered to, perhaps the Grand Secretary.

I called 5 Grand Lodges. I talked to one Grand Secretary. He said, as far as the God requirement, it's required you have belief in a God. I asked for clarification, I said I was a Mormon and I believed in more than a God.
He said they'd love to have a Mormon, he hopes we'll have a Mormon President. I was like OK, great, but I believe in more than 1 God and I'm not sure if I can join. He said they accept Hindu's, too. I was like OK, great, but I believe in more than 1 God and I'm not sure if I can join.

Then he said Masons have to believe in one God, and he talked more about names of god. I said again, I believe in more than 1 god, do I have to believe in one and only one god? He said masons would describe it as belief in a true and living god. I said I do believe in a true and living god, 3 different ones to be exact, can I join? He said I would still need to have 2 people sign for me and I should come visit the lodge if I want to join.

He seemed really nice but he never once told me I could not join if I believed in more than 1 God, in fact, he alluded to me being able to join.

Can you please relink the Grand Lodge? I must have missed your previous link.

Done.

I don't see it but it's fine, I found other photo's of the papers applicants have to sign and I don't see anything suggesting monotheism.

Conclusion: I see no evidence monotheism is a real and effectively enforced landmark... only theism!

reply to post by Erbal


A few pages back I posted my Grand Lodge's rule that a Mason/Petitioner must believe in ONE Supreme Being and posted a link to our constitution . It states CLEARLY that a petitioner must believe in ONE Supreme Being (not two , three or more , BUT ONE and only ONE) . That is pretty straight forward and to the point if you ask me . We make this perfectly clear to our petitioners before we hand them a petition . Do some lie ? I guess , but to what end is beyond me .

How it is worded in other jurisdictions is none of my concern .

Originally posted by whenandwhere
reply to post by Erbal

 

A few pages back I posted my Grand Lodge's rule that a Mason/Petitioner must believe in ONE Supreme Being and posted a link to our constitution . It states CLEARLY that a petitioner must believe in ONE Supreme Being (not two , three or more , BUT ONE and only ONE) . That is pretty straight forward and to the point if you ask me . We make this perfectly clear to our petitioners before we hand them a petition . Do some lie ? I guess , but to what end is beyond me .

How it is worded in other jurisdictions is none of my concern .

edit on 29-10-2012 by whenandwhere because: (no reason given)

Yup, I see your link.
www.grandlodgeofkentucky.org...

E. Freemasonry and Religion
Basic Principles. Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. It
requires of its members a belief in God as part of the obligation of every responsible
adult, but advocates no sectarian faith or practice. Masonic ceremonies include prayers,
both traditional and extempore, to reaffirm each individual’s dependence on God and to
seek divine guidance. Freemasonry is open to men of any faith, but religion may not be
discussed at Masonic meetings.

The Supreme Being. Masons believe that there is one God and that people employ
many different ways to seek and to express what they know of God. Masonry primarily
uses the appellation, “Grand Architect of the Universe”, and other non-sectarian titles,
to address Deity. In this way, persons of different faiths may join together in prayer,
concentrating on God, rather than differences among themselves. Masonry believes in
religious freedom and that the relationship between the individual and God is personal,
private and sacred.

It requires a belief in God. Says so in plain English. It's open to men of any faith. Says so in plain English.

Where does it say, clearly or otherwise, that Masons are required to believe in one and only one God?
It does say Masons believe that there is one God but that is a generalization and not a stated requirement.
It does not say anything about belief in one and ONLY one God being a requirement, and keep in mind the previous paragraph explicitly said "belief in God" is a requirement.

Now, if we look at the Kentucky Grand Lodge website, we see it's stated criteria for membership is consistent with everything I've been saying... theism, not monotheism, is the God requirement.

www.grandlodgeofkentucky.org...

Are you interested in pursuing membership? The basic criteria for membership is:

A belief in God

That's theism in general, not specifically monotheism.

reply to post by Erbal


A Catholic might say he believes in three Gods, the Father. Son, and Holy Spirit.
The brother you spoke to probably had a good laugh at how much you truly understood of the Mormon faith.

for your entertainment.

reply to post by Erbal


Page 62 of the Book of Constitution , as stated in my previous post .......

"The Supreme Being. Masons believe that there is one God and that people employ
many different ways to seek and to express what they know of God. Masonry primarily
uses the appellation, “Grand Architect of the Universe”, and other non-sectarian titles,
to address Deity. In this way, persons of different faiths may join together in prayer,
concentrating on God, rather than differences among themselves. Masonry believes in
religious freedom and that the relationship between the individual and God is personal,
private and sacred."

When it comes to the sections you posted , they all point back to this section , belief in ONE Supreme Being . This section is explanatory of the other sections .

Originally posted by whenandwhere
reply to post by Erbal

 

Page 62 of the Book of Constitution , as stated in my previous post .......

"The Supreme Being. Masons believe that there is one God and that people employ
many different ways to seek and to express what they know of God. Masonry primarily
uses the appellation, “Grand Architect of the Universe”, and other non-sectarian titles,
to address Deity. In this way, persons of different faiths may join together in prayer,
concentrating on God, rather than differences among themselves. Masonry believes in
religious freedom and that the relationship between the individual and God is personal,
private and sacred."

When it comes to the sections you posted , they all point back to this section , belief in ONE Supreme Being . This section is explanatory of the other sections .

edit on 30-10-2012 by whenandwhere because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-10-2012 by whenandwhere because: (no reason given)

Satan can be my God my personal Supreme Being "Grand Architect of the Universe" He could be my Faith, my God my relationship would be personal & i can still be a Mason
the way this world is going he is wining,thank you!!

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by FriedBabelBroccoli
If we base beliefs off of what some auxiliary of an organization believes then there is an internet video of mason claiming he worships lucifer I could flaunt as evidence of masonic devil worship. However I know that does represent official teachings so I don't bother.

Face it, you have been fooled about Roman Catholic beliefs on the 'devil' and 'hell' by popular culture.

The early Roman Catholic Church created the concept of the Harrowing of Hell. If Hell, according to you, does not come to pass until Revelations how did they explain this?

"By the expression 'He descended into Hell', the Apostles' Creed confesses that Jesus did really die and through his death for us conquered death and the devil 'who has the power of death' (Hebrews 2:14). In his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened Heaven's gates for the just who had gone before him." Catechism of the Catholic Church, p. 636–7.

He conquered the Devil. How do you conquer something that has no authority and what was he doing there prior to Revelations?


This is not strictly a Roman Catholic belief either.

Martin Luther, in a sermon in 1533 stated:

The Formula of Concord (a Lutheran confession) states, "we believe simply that the entire person, God and human being, descended to Hell after his burial, conquered the devil, destroyed the power of Hell, and took from the devil all his power." (Solid Declaration, Art. IX)

How did Christ take from 'the devil all his power' if the Devil (Satan/Lucifer) was not a figure of authority? Again, how do you 'conquer the devil' if this is not the case?

edit on 29-10-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer

Hi AugustusMasonicus///

There was no early 'Roman Catholic' Church....the Early Church was Catholic(as in universal) when the East and West split.......and the concept of hell is as it was in the early Church....

Jesus Christ came to undo what was not been able to be done by any man...Adam was the first created man...since he failed, another was to take his place...
The Son of God..... "The Word(LOGOS) became flesh and dwelt among us" (John 1:14)


Jesus Christ was the only one who was able to save mankind from the 'curse' that was the original sin (Adam and Eves DEATH-both body and soul)that was passed onto all mankind....It was DEATH that we carry to our graves...not adams and eves sin.
Hell in the Old Testament was a place AWAY from God.....because Adam and eve broke the commandment of God, therefore they out of free will chose to disobey Gods law!

Abraham and all of the Old Testament fathers went to hades(away from God)It was only after Jesus Christ descended into hades and destroyed the CURSE(original sin)that man was finally able to rejoice with God again.

eg///“Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” (St. John 8:56)

Jesus Christ did not conquer the Devil....He destroyed Original sin...He Destroyed DEATH...."sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men for all have sinned" (Rom. 5:12).

quote///"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection from the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive" (1 Cor. 15:21-22).

As for the original post.....
Nothing is HIDDEN from God.....all will be revealed!!!

ICXC NIKA

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Even Luciferians do not "worship" Lucifer. And as you said the concept of the Devil is a strictly Judeo-Christian concept. Everything is whether black or white,a manichean world view that I don't hold. Forces of darkness are not "evil", nor bad. And I always come back to my example of how certain things that people do and that they think are "good" are in fact not too good,sometimes helping someone might do him no good at all. Even so called "sins" are ridiculous. Everything has a dark side and a bright side and it's all about equilibrium. Anyways, I'll go back to my luciferian studies...

reply to post by madenusa


I say sometimes "Ignorance is bliss", the more you know, the less you know or should know..

reply to post by whenandwhere


You made the choice to post that part out of context. I quoted the entire 2 paragraphs to capture the full context... and clearly it states theism and not monotheism is the requirement.

Do read the paragraph previous to the one you are taking out of context... I even posted it, so again, you are making the choice to ignore it.

reply to post by Erbal


I did not post anything out of context . The parts you posted ARE defined by the section I posted . The sections of my constitution in your post says a petitioner/Mason must believe in a Supreme Being , it is then defined as to what this belief means , that Masons in my jurisdiction must believe in ONE God . You are the one trying to twist it to mean something else to fit your argument . I know my constitution and the rules of my jurisdiction as I am a District Deputy Grand Master who must have a firm grasp on our laws and rules and this is one of the subjects brought up at our District Deputy Grand Master conference (because of this very thread) the other day . I know my constitution backward and forwards , I know what the these rules mean . and you are not going to try to school me on it .

Also , the previous paragraph says it requires a belief in GOD , not Gods . God is singular . It also states that a petitioner must believe in a Supreme Being , not supreme beings . Again singular .

You are merely angry that you asked for proof and I provided it .

reply to post by whenandwhere

Let's be crystal clear: No one is saying the requirement is a belief in multiple gods.
Let's be crystal clear: theism, in general, unless stated otherwise, includes all specific types of theism like monotheism and polytheism, etc.
I will assume you understand and agree unless you say otherwise.

The constitution that you linked, the part you quoted is from the Appendix section. The different parts or subjects of the appendix are organized by letter, A, B, C, etc.

Appendix
E. Freemasonry and Religion

Basic Principles. Freemasonry is not a religion, nor is it a substitute for religion. It
requires of its members a belief in God as part of the obligation of every responsible
adult, but advocates no sectarian faith or practice. Masonic ceremonies include prayers,
both traditional and extempore, to reaffirm each individual’s dependence on God and to
seek divine guidance. Freemasonry is open to men of any faith, but religion may not be
discussed at Masonic meetings.

(continues on page 62 of the book - .pdf page 75)

The Supreme Being. Masons believe that there is one God and that people employ
many different ways to seek and to express what they know of God. Masonry primarily
uses the appellation, “Grand Architect of the Universe”, and other non-sectarian titles,
to address Deity. In this way, persons of different faiths may join together in prayer,
concentrating on God, rather than differences among themselves. Masonry believes in
religious freedom and that the relationship between the individual and God is personal,
private and sacred.

Volume of the Sacred Law. An open volume of the Sacred Law, “The rule and guide
of life,” is an essential part of every Masonic meeting. The Volume of the Sacred Law
in the Judeo/Christian tradition is the Bible, to Freemasons of other faiths, it is the book
held holy by them. (2000)
The Oath of Freemasonry. The obligations taken by Freemasons are sworn on
the Volume of the Sacred Law. They are undertakings to follow the principles of
Freemasonry and to keep confidential a Freemason’s means of recognition. The much
discussed “penalties”, judicial remnants from an earlier era, are symbolic, not literal.
They refer only to the pain any honest man should feel at the thought of violating his
word.
Freemasonry Compared with Religion. Freemasonry lacks the basic elements of
religion:
(A) It has no dogma or theology, no wish or means to enforce religious orthodoxy.
(B) It offers no sacraments.
(C) It does not claim to lead to salvation by works, by secret knowledge, or by any
other means. The secrets of Freemasonry are concerned with modes of recognition, not
with the means of salvation.
Freemasonry Supports Religion. Freemasonry is far from indifferent toward religion.
Without interfering in religious practice, it expects each member to follow his
own faith and to place his Duty to God above all other duties. Its moral teachings are
acceptable to all religions.

That is the entirety of Appendix - E. Freemasonry and Religion from which your quote came from.

It says it requires it's members to believe a belief in God. It does not say it requires a belief in a God. It does not say it requires a belief in one God. It does not say it requires a belief in multiple Gods.

Theism, IN GENERAL, is a belief in God. (in general means not specified)
Specific types of theism are only a specific belief in God - monotheism is one and only one, polytheism is more than one.
The only type of theism excluded in the basic wording of "a belief in God" is atheism - all other forms of theism have "a belief in God."

Then it goes on to say "Supreme Being. Masons believe there is one God." Again, this is Masons in general. If monotheism is the requirement, why didn't they word it as: All Masons are required to believe in one God. or All Masons believe in one God.

It even says Freemasonry believes in religious freedom. It says Freemasonry is not a religion because it has no wish or means to enforce religious orthodoxy. I think this provides a key insight into the previous part that claims Freemasonry does not advocate sectarian faiths or practices... they don't publicly support those faiths but they accept those faiths. It says Freemasonry's moral teachings are acceptable to all religions.

It's pretty damn clear there was no conscious effort given, during the writing of that appendix, to exclude all forms of theism except monotheism.
It's pretty damn clear there was a conscious effort given, during the writing of that appendix, to INCLUDE ALL FORMS OF THEISM.

You are a free man, interpret it however you want... but I simply do not see the validity of your claims.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

The early Roman Catholic Church created the concept of the Harrowing of Hell. If Hell, according to you, does not come to pass until Revelations how did they explain this?

"By the expression 'He descended into Hell', the Apostles' Creed confesses that Jesus did really die and through his death for us conquered death and the devil 'who has the power of death' (Hebrews 2:14). In his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened Heaven's gates for the just who had gone before him." Catechism of the Catholic Church, p. 636–7.

He conquered the Devil. How do you conquer something that has no authority and what was he doing there prior to Revelations?

The above poster outlined what hell in a general sense means, separation from God. You were intimating 'hell' as being the same as the 'lake of fire' which it is not. Nowhere in there does the harrowing of 'hell' state that the 'devil' rules hell.

a quick and easy outline for you;

These three terms have different meanings and must be recognized.

Hades has similarities to the Old Testament term, Sheol as "the place of the dead". Thus, it is used in reference to both the righteous and the wicked, since both wind up there eventually.[26]

Gehenna refers to the "Valley of Hinnon", which was a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. It was a place where people burned their garbage and thus there was always a fire burning there. Bodies of those deemed to have died in sin without hope of salvation (such as people who committed suicide) were thrown there to be destroyed.[27] Gehenna is used in the New Testament as a metaphor for the final place of punishment for the wicked after the resurrection.[28]

Tartaro (the verb "throw to Tartarus") occurs only once in the New Testament in II Peter 2:4, where it is parallel to the use of the noun form in 1 Enoch as the place of incarceration of 200 fallen angels. It mentions nothing about human souls being sent there in the afterlife.

You must be having a very hard time finding official pronouncements to support your theory of a 'devil' ruling over 'hell' if you are resorting to quoting from what you termed as 'offshoot cults' in the protestants. You already discounted the other denominations of Christianity so it does not reflect kindly on your arguments now to use them to support your opinion.

reply to post by network dude


To your prior question about what my issue is with masonry:

Aside from familial relations with the brotherhood, my research on the group reveal extensive influences of Mithra-ism and Gnosticism as individuals rise through the ranks. Becoming as gods and knowing the full extent of perceived good and evil (actions) are core tenets of those initiate systems. From my personal experience with individuals with perceptions in line with those I have found too much arrogance and selfishness to consider them legitimate philosophies.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


Thank you for answering that.
I hope I never meet masons such as you described.

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli


Just out of curiosity, if you feel that way about masonry, how do you feel about the Severe Bible thumpers who try to tell everyone what God thinks about them using scriptures to support their hate? That seems to be going a step beyond trying to be God like and just pretending to be God.

In the research I have done with regards to masonry, I have found it's nothing like what you describe. It's a brotherhood of men, regular men like are in any town, who want to learn more about themselves and become better people. As far as I know, there is nothing in masonry that teaches you to become a God or God like. We do however use stories from the Bible to teach lessons.

But I am only a 32nd degree and have no idea what happens in those mysterious "higher ranks"
(In all reality, I have only heard about them on this site)

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

 

Just out of curiosity, if you feel that way about masonry, how do you feel about the Severe Bible thumpers who try to tell everyone what God thinks about them using scriptures to support their hate? That seems to be going a step beyond trying to be God like and just pretending to be God.

In the research I have done with regards to masonry, I have found it's nothing like what you describe. It's a brotherhood of men, regular men like are in any town, who want to learn more about themselves and become better people. As far as I know, there is nothing in masonry that teaches you to become a God or God like. We do however use stories from the Bible to teach lessons.

But I am only a 32nd degree and have no idea what happens in those mysterious "higher ranks"
(In all reality, I have only heard about them on this site)

Well then they are not practicing what they preach and are also a nuisance I would say.

I am unaware of ever saying that there were mysterious 'higher ranks'. What I have said is that there are most likely orders within the orders which one must be selected for based on works and demonstration of knowledge of the mysteries. This is supported by men such as Mackey stating that within the brotherhood are keepers of the ancient 'wisdom' of the mysteries and that that is the reason which masonry has been spread, Manly P Hall also said essentially the same thing. Albert Pike also goes heavily into the mysteries and even associates their (mystery school) ritual of death and rebirth to the masons master degree ritual (lets not get into the whole coffin issue as it has already been addressed) and this being one the reasons which the scottish right temple in DC is designed after a famous tomb (similar to the skull and bones tomb at Yale). All these men are of higher ranks and social standing than yourself or any members of this board so I am more inclined to take their 'opinions' as evidence than yours.

You see part of these ancient 'mysteries' was the building of temples and another part was the meaning of the symbolism in the structure, art, and times in which they were built. In 'magic' this is essentially drawing down the stars. The ancients used to align their buildings with star systems and erect art and such at certain times based on the movement of the stars. Egypt, Karnak, Greeks, Romans the Louvre, and Washington D.C. all follow this pattern. Washington D.C. is heavily attached to Virgo (see David Ovason for extensive research into the matter), the symbolism of Virgo is easily brought back to Egypt and Sumeria through Isis (see Albert Pike and the blazing star) and Astarte. The five pointed star found all over masonry is always associated with the heavens.

Now most of us are aware of the pyramid (in terms of masonry) as representing solomon's temple and is not actually a physical thing but a spiritual work. The eye of providence can be associated with Christianity but was used earlier by the Egyptians (the source of the mystery schools throughout history) as a symbol of the Sun. The mystery schools varied in their interpretations from highly pagan with multiple gods to monotheistic with the Sun representing God (a.k.a. Mithras whom Constantine was a high priest (sol invictus) of and later founder of Roman Catholicism - this is a simple connection between operative masonry and modern masonry). The Sun later became more closely associated with intellect and knowledge to the higher initiates.

This is all fine and good unless one looks at all this from a Biblical sense at which point it begins to look an awful lot like the followers of the Whore of Babylon (female aspect commonly associated with a church - those who practice there of) rebuilding Solomon's temple, creating a world government, and worshiping Lucifer. I trust you can make the connections. Of course I have not brought all my research together into a proper document with proper citation, sentence structure, or included any graphic diagrams yet so you are free to say its all hogwash as that is your right to an opinion.

Peace.

Also, is it just me or do most of the masons on this board seem to have a grudge against Christians?

I do not consider myself a member of any religion. I am of the opinion that if God was to ever come into human flesh that I can think of no greater, no more honorable individual to embody that concept than Yehoshua the Christ.

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians." -Ghandi

I am fully aware of the lack of documented evidence of such a man existing but another thing I am aware of is the incredible shock to the religious hierarchies (and thus mysteries) that occurred during the time frame which must have had a source resembling the resulting structure of beliefs.