New Testament Fairy Tales

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by DeadSeraph

 

Okay, you're right about that date, 37AD. I did a search and caught a glimpse of 1-4AD, and then my internet crashed. When I rebooted I just typed the date I had seen, without re-checking the accuracy.

Never the less, there was no New Testament circulating. Early Christians didn't have copies of Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Revelation, etal.

By your own admission, Early Christianity was an oral tradition before it could be written down. Paul completed the first of his writings in 48AD (Titus would have been 9 years old, and josephus 10 or 11).

There is zero evidence to support Breeze's claims.

If you require more evidence to the contrary, go read the thread. There's an abundance of it.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
By your own admission, Early Christianity was an oral tradition before it could be written down. Paul completed the first of his writings in 48AD (Titus would have been 9 years old, and josephus 10 or 11).

There is zero evidence to support Breeze's claims.

If you require more evidence to the contrary, go read the thread. There's an abundance of it.

But are there any examples of Paul's original writing's? I think not so, how can you be sure that he even wrote any of the things accredited to him?

Even if Titus and Josephus were only kids when the alleged writings were set down, it doesn't mean that they could not have invented them later and passed them off as older texts, since the originals are no where to be found.

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
By your own admission, Early Christianity was an oral tradition before it could be written down. Paul completed the first of his writings in 48AD (Titus would have been 9 years old, and josephus 10 or 11).

There is zero evidence to support Breeze's claims.

If you require more evidence to the contrary, go read the thread. There's an abundance of it.

But are there any examples of Paul's original writing's? I think not so, how can you be sure that he even wrote any of the things accredited to him?

Even if Titus and Josephus were only kids when the alleged writings were set down, it doesn't mean that they could not have invented them later and passed them off as older texts, since the originals are no where to be found.

edit on 9-9-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)

I've already addressed that pages back. We KNOW the christian religion was already established as far back as 40-50AD. I have provided evidence for this. I have also provided reasons why the "Flavian Myth" is just that. A myth. Go read the thread.

Breeze and Atwill haven't got a leg to stand on and I've proven it using historical sources, logic, reason, and archaeological evidence.

The ONLY rebuttal available to them, is that this conspiracy was so great, that subsequent roman historians were in on it (as well as Nero). Even this idea, says nothing of why entire teams of jewish scribes would help them author this fictional religion when it would be the opposite of their own religious teachings.

This theory is ridiculous at the outset, and if you hate Christianity SO much that you are willing to put empirical evidence aside, well then you do not belong in this debate (Or maybe you do, as Breeze has yet to address the DOZENS of holes in Atwill's theory)

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Is this all you two are going to discuss? So many facets to ponder over, and you're stuck circling one tree out of the whole forest. At this rate, we'll never get anywhere, because neither of you is willing to agree to disagree and move on! Swallow your pride and allow room to grow!

The NT is based on the OT, and the OT is composed largely of pagan myths from Sumeria, a collaboration of many faiths in an effort to keep the old spirituality piggybacking on Christianity's popularity. It was a compromise made to keep the ancient ways alive, albeit wearing a different face.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
I have also provided reasons why the "Flavian Myth" is just that. A myth.

I'm not arguing that the flavian myth is true. Even if it wasn't Titus and Josephus, it could have been someone further down the line. I'm sticking to the OP and saying that the NT is also myth.

Shooting holes in one doesn't make the other any more true.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


As long as Breeze intends to inject the Atwill "New Testament *faery* tale" into this discussion, I intend to call him or her out on their bull&!*@.

If we are to discuss the New Testament in any capacity, we cannot have such historically inaccurate claims about it's authorship being bantered about in an effort to sell books (or even a theory).

It is crucial that we dispel myths about the New Testaments authorship before we can discuss it.

What most are missing here, Is that all the counter evidence I have dug up offers evidence FOR a historical Jesus of Nazareth.

The only way Atwill and Breeze can make their "comedy" out of Jesus, is to distort history to such an extent that they must assume every roman historian of the period was in on it.

This is not so much a conspiracy to make jesus EXIST, so much as it is a STRETCH of history to cast his existence into doubt.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

What most are missing here, Is that all the counter evidence I have dug up offers evidence FOR a historical Jesus of Nazareth.

What you are missing is that Jesus is a lot like Santa Claus. A mix of ancient world folklore, a historical person and a big build up. The difference is that Santa offers gifts in this world, so the myth is found out early on. Jesus's gift isn't given till after death so, people can go their entire lives without finding out that it is a myth.

Originally posted by windword

 

I had to go look up "Cannibal Mary." I have never heard that story before!

Josephus estimated the number of Jews in Jerusalem at the Passover season 70 A.D. to have risen above 3 million. As the siege progressed famine set in.........................................

ezinearticles.com...:-Cannibal-Lady-Feeds-on-Babys-Flesh&id=5476400

Sad but yet another faery tale?

When the Flavian-Romans did create the New Testament, they came up with the darkly comic satire about a human Passover lamb to make fun of the grim "feast" of the starving Passover celebrants who were trapped inside Jerusalem. Josephus' story concerning the "starving Mary" and the sacrament of communion are both reflections of this comic theme.

Yecch!

reply to post by daskakik


Instead of jumping to the conclusion that Jesus was some made up man from the imaginations of Romans, why not consider that maybe Jesus was a real man but the Romans got a hold of his story and distorted it? Adding in things like the virgin birth and miracles and obvious sun worship themes and then the whole thing about achieving salvation through Jesus.

That seems like a much more plausible theory than the whole thing being made up in my opinion. Why go through the trouble of creating a whole new religion out of thin air when you could just distort the story of a man who spoke the truth? They obviously felt threatened by what Jesus taught, that's why they persecuted his early followers. Once they killed enough of them, they decided to take what Jesus taught and flip it on its head for their own benefit, to seperate the people from the truth even further.

Originally posted by DeadSeraph
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

What most are missing here, Is etccetcetc

Originally posted by daskakik
What you are missing is that Jesus is a lot like Santa Claus. A mix of ancient world folklore, a historical person and a big build up. The difference is that Santa offers gifts in this world, so the myth is found out early on. Jesus's gift isn't given till after death so, people can go their entire lives without finding out that it is a myth.

I wonder if mythical Flavian Jesus had a penchant for red and white and had a belly full of jelly? What a fairy tale!! We know the myth perpetuated by most modern Biblical scholars that Jesus was sparkly white, a virgin, loved little lambs and was pro-Roman ("give to Caesar", blah blah).

He did have a beard! Or did he? So much Jesus, no little facts!

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Instead of jumping to the conclusion that Jesus was some made up man from the imaginations of Romans,

I wouldn't call over a decade of earnest study of the faery tales of the NT "jumping to conclusions", Kind Sir!

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by daskakik

 

Instead of jumping to the conclusion that Jesus was some made up man from the imaginations of Romans, why not consider that maybe Jesus was a real man but the Romans got a hold of his story and distorted it? Adding in things like the virgin birth and miracles and obvious sun worship themes and then the whole thing about achieving salvation through Jesus.

That was my point. Saint Nicholas of Myra was the primary inspiration for Santa. He was a real person but he surely isn't living at the north pole with an army of elves, and a team of reindeer, going around the planet handing out presents.

Still all this rediculous banter?
I can't believe that the Mods have allowed this to continue. Just another example of how ATS has gone to the birds...
The evidence speaks for itself. DS has arguable facts that dispute the claims of the windy one with all of it's hot air, ignorance and sheer hatred.

But the point has been lost with all of this rhetoric!

The NT is NOT a continuation of the OT. Have you forgotten about the Mystery given to Paul, never before revealed to man? It turns the OT on it's religious head, and changes everything with the Gift of Christ.

If it was all about control, at the expense of the Jews, would they not have left things as they were? No more sacrifices? Continue with the prophesies, so that they could continue to carry out the supposed hoax?
It would have been much easier to manipulate the masses, with the requirements set forth in the OT. But, Christ is the reason that those things came to pass.
Not by the ramblings of an athiest and their worshippers, who break the Commandments at will, for sheer spite, alone.

You can continue to argue about beliefs and conspiracies, all you want, but you will never convince those who have experienced it first hand, the Power of Divine Intervention...
God is Real! The Holy Spirit is Real! So Christ MUST be Real!
I have FELT it!
So stop this rediculous, self-serving, petty, contrived, HOGWASH about faerytales, and question WHY you are so against the Lord!

reply to post by ALightBreeze


It may be you're researching the right things but coming to a similar but wrong conclusion? I'm not trying to say you're wrong in your research but my gut feeling is that he was a real man but his story was hijacked and turned into a lie with edits to the story and the ideas of faith and salvation thrown in by the Romans, possibly the Flavians.

You may be totally right and I have no room to call you wrong but I'm just going with my gut feeling.

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by ALightBreeze

 

It may be you're researching the right things but coming to a similar but wrong conclusion? I'm not trying to say you're wrong in your research but my gut feeling is that he was a real man but his story was hijacked and turned into a lie with edits to the story and the ideas of faith and salvation thrown in by the Romans, possibly the Flavians.

You may be totally right and I have no room to call you wrong but I'm just going with my gut feeling.

edit on 9-9-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-9-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Fair(y) enough! At least you don't stalk me. ;( ;(

Originally posted by ALightBreeze
reply to post by MamaJ

 

Jesus is real, he is the one who wrote Job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did he tell him to make the iPhone?

You tell me..... Did he?

Have you read ANY OF THE BIBLE?

If so, how many times have you read it?

I want to know other than the same bs you keep quoting and running with, what else do you know.

I've studied it all for well over twenty years.

I'm going to try and make time to debunk each and every post hereafter.

My honey is watching the game so I have some time.... :-)

Let's go.

I've already addressed that pages back. We KNOW the christian religion was already established as far back as 40-50AD. I have provided evidence for this. I have also provided reasons why the "Flavian Myth" is just that. A myth. Go read the thread. Breeze and Atwill haven't got a leg to stand on and I've proven it using historical sources, logic, reason, and archaeological evidence. The ONLY rebuttal available to them, is that this conspiracy was so great, that subsequent roman historians were in on it (as well as Nero). Even this idea, says nothing of why entire teams of jewish scribes would help them author this fictional religion when it would be the opposite of their own religious teachings. This theory is ridiculous at the outset, and if you hate Christianity SO much that you are willing to put empirical evidence aside, well then you do not belong in this debate (Or maybe you do, as Breeze has yet to address the DOZENS of holes in Atwill's theory)

reply to post by DeadSeraph


Have you debunked her in this thread? If so, I want to go back and see what all you offered because frankly, she has hijacked the thread and not countered from what I can tell.

Is it just an assumption or has she really just been throwing quotes out from atwill like he's her god? Lol

If you don't have time, I understand but I got some time and really wanna lay this one to rest. It's so old.

Originally posted by MamaJ

Jesus is real, he is the one who wrote Jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by ALightBreeze

Did he tell him to make the iPhone?

Originally posted by MamaJ You tell me..... Did he?

Did Jesus write to Steven Jobs??

SERIOUSLY??????

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by ALightBreeze

 

It may be you're researching the right things but coming to a similar but wrong conclusion? I'm not trying to say you're wrong in your research but my gut feeling is that he was a real man but his story was hijacked and turned into a lie with edits to the story and the ideas of faith and salvation thrown in by the Romans, possibly the Flavians.

You may be totally right and I have no room to call you wrong but I'm just going with my gut feeling.

edit on 9-9-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-9-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

Your gut will always tell you what's from god and what isn't. What Jesus really said, and what he didn't say is important to the overall story of man.

If you really want to learn another way to view the bible, learn what is truly going on in the world, and how it pertains to the overall stories in the bible and your personal life I will be more than delighted to share my journey with you. Your gut.... Your spirit will know if what I'm saying, what I've learned holds any truth.

I've awakened to a lot of hard core truths.

There are even SOME truths to what lightbreeze is saying but its waaaaaaay off because the fact is Jesus is real. He incarnated many times my friend! He is MANS story.... All of us.

Secrets of the Universe and the mind it holds has been kept from us. Lol I can't believe we have been so deceived, but we have. It's sad, but it's the truth.

We live in Biblical times, always have and always will.

Way too many minds are in the know now. So many of us are awakening to cold hard facts that hurt! However the truth will indeed set you and all of us free. God wishes none of us to perish. Our souls have been working hard to get BACK TO THE BEGINNING.

Do you know WHERE we are at in our solar system? Do you know what's going on in space?

You see and feel the tensions here on earth but I tell you..... The heavens are just as intense.

Believe what you want, it's a choice and the choice is yours but we are supposed to be our brothers keeper. We are supposed to treat one another as our self.... I'm telling you the mind and what you believe matters in the grand scheme of things. It matters because when time comes back full circle your soul needs your body and personality, the senses and everything you have to work with your soul/ spirit to see your soul makes it back home. Jesus the Christ is our way back home. He is our brother and our way and the way was set up before the foundations of the earth was laid. It too was first spirit. The earth is alive. It's an atom in a universe. Life is abundant. Dust is alive!!!

Subatomic particles are alive! The universe is an expression and within that expression are words/ vibrations/ harmonics/ light/ energy that create stories and these stories are about you and I. We are the fallen, but not the way the main stream church teaches it. We fell away from the collective and became singular. It's a very complex, yet easy way to understand the Bible once the seed is planted of truth, then the Bible can be viewed for what it really is. It shows us what the earth is, now..... in time, a place of Opportunity for souls. God made that happen, he set out a way for us to not perish.... Not hell.....but perish!!!

Jesus is our lord, our ambassador of man, he is our way, the truth, the light, and will not lead us astray. If you can trust one.... It's him!! He is US! When god said let US make man in our own image..... WE WERE THERE!!!!

Jesus is the last Adam. We needed him to come into the flesh and we need him to come back but the way he comes is through us.

Sons of light and sons of darkness are at war.

Originally posted by ALightBreeze

Originally posted by MamaJ

Jesus is real, he is the one who wrote Jobs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by ALightBreeze

Did he tell him to make the iPhone?

Originally posted by MamaJ You tell me..... Did he?

Did Jesus write to Steven Jobs??

SERIOUSLY??????

edit on 9-9-2012 by ALightBreeze because: (no reason given)

Hahahahahaha.. OH I get it now... Lol

Here ya go....

JOB...... JOB......... JOB!!!! No typing error there.

I mean come on now, if ya didn't get what I REALLY MEANT, then debating with you is not something I want to do. No sense in wasting time!!

Jesus has my back and I'm lead by the almighty so the light in which I use to see is much brighter than yours. I'm not saying that to boast, but it's true.

I understand we all have different perceptions and knowledge.

When a person finds their ultimate truth/ light they will defend it to no end. I get this.

If your light goes against Jesus then it's a light that is very dim and without substance.

Seeking knowledge and or truth is very important and with the internet we have an astronomical amount of information at our fingertips.

Don't be mislead though.

There are cover ups, secret societies, sinister people and so on, however make sure you are not one of them being mislead by those that try and confuse you.

If you have not realized how Jesus can and does work in your life then you are missing the boat. Don't drown due to not being open minded.