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New Testament Fairy Tales

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posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 11:41 PM
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Looking for more faery tales from the Flavian authored NT?

Here is my colleague Joseph Atwill's blog with this special post of specific interest to readers of this thread.


"The bible scholar and author David Oliver Smith has agreed with my analysis of the “three crucified one survives” parallel that I discovered and presented in Caesar’s Messiah. What is important about David’s concurrence is that he the author of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and Paul: The Influence of the Epistles on the Synoptic Gospels, a highly regarded work that includes analysis of numerous parallels between the New Testament and Jewish Scripture.


Joseph Atwill's Blog




posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 11:43 PM
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reply to post by ALightBreeze
 


Why does it matter who it comes from? What matters is the CONTENTS. If the author has any bearing on why it's wrong, then the discussion is moot.

A terrorist can speak a truth, that doesn't make it a lie.



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by HamrHeed
There is alot of nonsense that has been "tacked on" to the breast plate of Christianity, and the holy spirit will never be contained.



Originally posted by ALightBreeze

Point made.

Exactly how do you contain something that doesn't exist?



Originally posted by HamrHeed
Love doesn't exist?


The Holy Ghost/Spirit doesn't exist.



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 11:46 PM
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reply to post by ALightBreeze
 


Why the refusal to answer questions, Breeze? You've been asked question after question, and your response is always someone else's words (In most cases, Joseph Atwill's words).

Why have you refused to consider what I posted about Tacitus? History doesn't agree with you.

Edit to add:

Guess it's easier to set someone who's proven you wrong on ignore than to actually admit your spouting fiction as historical fact

edit on 7-9-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by AfterInfinity
 

The source of the NT is of profound importance imho.

Since the Flavians were the victors in their war with the messianic movement in Judea, all the histories relating to that era, including the Gospels, should be scrutinized to determine if the Flavians produced them. Once the Gospels are viewed from the perspective of a member of the Flavian inner circle, the relationship between Jesus and Titus becomes virtually self-evident.



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by ALightBreeze

Originally posted by HamrHeed
There is alot of nonsense that has been "tacked on" to the breast plate of Christianity, and the holy spirit will never be contained.



Originally posted by ALightBreeze

Point made.

Exactly how do you contain something that doesn't exist?



Originally posted by HamrHeed
Love doesn't exist?


The Holy Ghost/Spirit doesn't exist.


If it doesn't exist from your perspective, then why are you forming arguements against it?
Shouldn't Christianity be extinct if that were true? You're not making sense here



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 11:55 PM
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reply to post by HamrHeed
 


Actually, we all know the world is shaped like a squashed ball. Yet there are groups who say it's an elaborate hoax and the earth is actually a flat disk, with the sun being a ball of light that orbits in a circle above the disk (or below, depending on the angle). Basically, almost everything we're told about the earth is a lie.

We know all of that flat earth stuff isn't true...and yet it isn't dead. So just because it's not true, don't assume people aren't dumb enough to swallow it. If the truth is bad enough, hell yes we'll swallow it, and we'll smile the whole time. And by 'we', I don't mean me, but people in general.


edit on 7-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 7 2012 @ 11:59 PM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by HamrHeed
 


Actually, we all know the world is shaped like a squashed ball. Yet there are groups who say it's an elaborate hoax and the earth is actually a flat disk, with the sun being a ball of light that orbits in a circle above the disk(or below, depending on the angle). Basically, almost everything we're told about the earth is a lie.

We know all of that flat earth stuff isn't true...and yet it isn't dead. So just because it's not true, don't assume people aren't dumb enough to swallow it. If the truth is bad enough, hell yes we'll swallow it, and we'll smile the whole time. And by 'we', I don't mean me, but people in general.


edit on 7-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

edit on 7-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)


And I understand that point of view. As a christian, I don't believe the earth is 6000 yrs old either. There is alot of deception in this world.
The holy spirit is the only thing that the destroyers can't touch.
Why can't they touch it? Because they don't believe it exists in the first place



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 12:45 AM
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Further rebuttals to Atwill's "New Testament Fairy Tale":

-Vespasian was dispatched by Nero in 67AD to put down the Jewish uprising. This is when he encounters Josephus. In order for the New testament to have been a Flavian Conspiracy, Nero would have had to of been in on it.

-The Great Fire of Rome occurred in 64AD. Christians were subsequently blamed for this fire. Are we to believe that numerous ROMAN historians were ALL in on this conspiracy, and rewrote their own history to accommodate Vespasian's grand conspiracy?

-Vespasian was a roman general before he was emperor (serving under Nero). Are we to believe that a Roman general would have an intimate enough knowledge of Old Testament works and Jewish customs, beliefs, and practices (not to mention a command of the greek written language as well as hebrew and aramaic) that he could have orchestrated the creation of an entire religion targeting messianic jews PRIOR to his dispatch in 67AD? He subsequently invaded Jerusalem and razed the temple. In order for Vespasian to have procured the JEWISH scholars necessary to undertake this massive hoax, and allow them time to write the New Testament (or even Paul's letters) He would have required AT LEAST 5 years to produce even ONE book of the NT. This says nothing of WHY any jewish scholar would offer to author a religion to subjugate his own people in the first place.

-Tacitus (as I have already pointed out) spoke of Christians in a very anti-christian manner. There is no way around this. On top of this, Tacitus wrote based on Documents he had access to at the time (which he cites) including documents from the reign of Tiberius (who he explicitly names as the Emperor during the period of Christs execution). Not only does he do this, He names Pontius Pilatus as the procurator of the region.

-Academia has concluded that Paul completed his earliest writings between 40-50AD. That would indicate (combined with the DOCUMENTED great fire of Rome) That almost 20 years had passed between these two events. Either Paul was in on this "conspiracy" (which is ridiculous in and of itself) or The Flavian Conspiracy is short on fact, and a complete fabrication of historical reality. Paul must of had at least SOME time to complete his writings, and certainly FAR MORE time if he was concocting a fictional account which would require it stand up to Old Testament prophecy, which would place these writings YEARS before Vespasian's invasion of Jerusalem and only serves to CONFIRM the notion that Christians were already considered a problem for Nero (and Rome in general).
edit on 8-9-2012 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 01:35 AM
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Is it settled, then? The NT is a bunch of compost growing weeds and thorn bushes?



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Is it settled, then? The NT is a bunch of compost growing weeds and thorn bushes?


That much, is still open to debate. What I believe to be settled, is that the Flavian Dynasty had nothing to do with the authorship of the New Testament.



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 01:45 AM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Is it settled, then? The NT is a bunch of compost growing weeds and thorn bushes?


Is it settled, then? The human race is a bunch of pondscum that got hot or cold, and then migrated?

Sorry, I am trying to match your reasoning since you can't answer anything that goes against what you learned
edit on 8-9-2012 by HamrHeed because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 04:47 AM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


Thank you. It is ICP. The insane clown presidents.



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 04:49 AM
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reply to post by HamrHeed
 


I agree, the human race is pond scum. Or a virus, more like.

Or the more accurate description would be...the human race ACTS like a virus.

edit on 8-9-2012 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 09:48 AM
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Originally posted by AfterInfinity
Is it settled, then? The NT is a bunch of compost growing weeds and thorn bushes?


If completely and expertly contrived mythical history and fabled recounts of fake Jesuses by Flavian paid authors can compost, then yes it is.



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 09:57 AM
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Even if the mythical Jesus were not an obvious typological character created in the minds of intellectual Roman literians, the relationship between his ministry and Flavius Titus' military campaign would, in and of itself, consistently prove that one was based on the other.

The statistically impossible parallels between the ministry and the campaign of the two "sons of God" do not merely occur in the very same locations, but in the exact same sequences. This is the clearest and most irrefutable proof that the soon-to-be divine Titus left for Biblical scholars and the observing public—proof he permanently and purposefully left so we would correctly remark that he had succeeded in his tireless efforts to force the Jews praise him as "Lord," incontrovertible proof he left that he had become the Christ, as he proclaimed and as nearly every Roman historian of the time agrees that his fully deluded Christians, now and then, would worship for thousands of years.

The master trickery for the ages.



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 10:10 AM
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More on NT faery tales.

It is my interpretation that the Flavian authors of the Gospels/NT were perpetually ridiculing those, Christians and others, who see symbolic meaning where there is only preplanned, weightless mythicisms.

Without any conjecture you can conclude that this methodology of [mis]interpreting scripture was the basis or platform of the theology of a "coming" Messiah of the pre 130 BC Jewish rebels. Why go to such great lengths?

The purpose the inventors of this pseudo-Christianity were making with their use of satire is there are countless ways to traditionally (mis)interpret the scriptures and it is simple, even for the uneducated to also conclude and emotionally charge symbolic meaning where there is absolutely nothing but fiction and falsehood.



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 10:25 AM
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Those who fail to prove the Breeze-Atwill interpretations, and there are many, many about the globe and only one or two in this thread.
will stumble around and about the Cannibal Mary in Josephus. Having read and studied her speech many times, the only realistic conclusion is that it is clearly it's a propaganda piece in tune with the Flavian intentions of propagandizing the NT. Successful as they are and were.

Transparently the speech reflects the endless, seething hatred the Flavians had for the (messianic Judean) Jews.

Often I speak of the similarity in the Catholic Church structure is to the Caesarian imperial cults. Odd, chance? Or that the earliest known NT church locations coincide with the locations of imperial cult headquarters?

This is long, decades before, Constantine proclaimed Christianity the Roman state religion. Even today we have multiple examples of people deliberately creating (false) religions. Why is it far-fetched that people with the power to do it, with experience doing it, and a in-place and willing bureaucracy for doing it, do it?

Once one drops their vanity and opens their minds, it is much simpler, statistically and empirically, to make solid the case of the creation of Christianity by the Flavian emperors than it is to justify the mixed messages, unintelligible and nearly indecipherable historicity of the NT.



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by ALightBreeze
 


Here is another ATS thread that backs up your postulates of a Roman created Jesus in an attempt to keep the masses complacent. It's an epic thread that so elegantly presents the factual documentation and theories so profoundly that is not needed to be rehashed again here.

All Roads Lead to Rome




The First False Flag



In 70 AD the future Emperor Titus with the foreknowledge of the Pharisees would march into Jerusalem and sack the city, sending the Hebrew tribes into exile, and clearing out the city.



Titus

Seige of Jerusalem

Diaspora

The Second Jewish Temple which was in fact basically just a government center was raised and destroyed and looted.

Treasures of the Hebrew’s would be carried back to Rome and paraded, and displayed as part of their little known religion.

Josephus also known as Yosef Ben Matiyahu was a first-century Jewish Historian and Roman Citizen also known as Titus Flavius Josephus, the Titus commissioned to begin writing what are largely the only known non-biblical accounts of the Sack of Jerusalem, and the first real formulation of it’s religion to the Roman World at large.



en.wikipedia.org...

The seeds were slowly being planted for the world’s greatest conspiracy ever, a conspiracy still taking place today. A conspiracy perhaps destined to finally succeed after millennia in the making in our lifetime.

The religion that would give birth to Jesus Christ, a figure to metaphorically patterned off of Julius Caesar was being born through Josephus’s popular accounts.

In the process the Hebrew themselves were being written into a guaranteed position in the plan, one that would never stop paying dividends. One well worth the sacrifice by its leaders, of a capital that they had only come to occupy a scant few hundred years before after wandering the entire Middle East for profit.

Back in Baghdad a city that they had previously ruled, and kept close ties too, they would patiently wait for the next part of the plan to unfold, their investment in Rome, all the more secure for it.

With Jerusalem cleared out and devoid of the Jews there were in fact no Jews there to challenge the myth that soon would be Christ.


I didn't see this information debunked in this thread or in Autowrench's thread that I previously linked.



posted on Sep, 8 2012 @ 10:39 AM
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Emperor Flavius Titus' invented Christian religion took hold and the "slaves and scum" (Josephus) who embraced it did so because they didn't have the intellectual wherewithal to rally against it. They were led to believe that a man-god Jesus lived decades earlier, who had prophesied that the "wicked" generation of Jews living then (30-33 A.D.ish) would be utterly destroyed... and, lo and behold, the writings of Josephus catalogs that very destruction, 'proving' that Christ was a true prophet!


Uncommon trick? Hardly. Virgil invented a pseudo-prophesy in the Aeneid where his hero is shown a tableau of his unborn descendants culminating in Emperor Augustus.

Titus thru his judicious use of Flavian authorship created a pseudo-religion that was intended to domesticate the 'wild animal' of stubborn militant Judaism, the Sicarii movement specifically who were to revivifying the rebellious spirit of the Maccabees.

This new religion a replacement Judaism called "Christianity" would have a Saviour-Messiah who would preach acceptance adn thankfulness to and for the ruling authorities of Rome.

Hereby we have to endure the seeming perpetuity of the Christian religion and its (modern) deluded followers of this extreme faery tale.




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