The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary & UFOs

Originally posted by smugmushroom
reply to post by The GUT

 

You had me enthraled right upto the moment when you mentioned "so what's going to happen in 2015"....

Seriously, yet another "date prediction"? Come on man, get real. 2012 has turned out so far to be a non-event, even with all the "ooooh the olympics is the time for ......"
Love what you are trying to do, just don't try to make or add a prediction, it turns alot of people off straight away. Leave the mind wondering, not closed.

Anyway, apart from that, good post.

Awww, that wasn't a prediction, Shroom, I was wondering what research related prediction Dr. Green was making in the report right before my comment. Here:

Not all of the "good" research will be done exclusively in the West--at least not before 2015. The results of this work will make sick people well and soldiers safer, but the technologies will not exclusively follow Western views on ethical questions, such as human stem-cell research, research on willing prisoners, and work on human-animal chimeras…

www.thebulletin.org...

Now can I have your "enthrallment" back?

reply to post by The GUT


Besides all the wonderful information you continue to give us, I find the bombardment of a near constant sleet of attempts toward derailment of this thread quite remarkable, as if you've hit on something someone, or some group really doesn't want talked about, discussed, or taken seriously.

It would seem this disruptive attention is almost a validation of any conspiracy elements brought up, and associations made between personalities discussed in such light.

Keep up the fantastic work The GUT!

reply to post by Druscilla


What The GUT has hit upon is an internet troll who, I can only imagine, wishes he weren't so bored... Or something like that.

On Topic...

For what it's worth I've known Kit Green for years, spent many, many, hours with him in Detroit and consider him a good friend. A quick search of the ATS Videos and you'll see us discussing the Avian Flu outbreak from a couple years ago.

In any case, there is lots of information about Kit "out there", some of it's the absolute truth and some of it is ridiculous assumptions mixed in with preconceived beliefs born of ignorance. While it's easy to look at someone from the safe distance of an internet browser, it's quite another to actually get to know them, their wife, and their peers over many years. That said, I've never had anything but a positive experience from "hanging out" with Kit. (you can all start cracking wise about "mind control" now... )

I know that doesn't change anything, and it shouldn't, everyone should do their own research and come to their own conclusions, but I thought it would be of some value to read it from someone who actually knows the man.

Springer...

reply to post by Druscilla


I got to see the content member drewhempel was posting before the ban hammer fell :10-15 character strings of letters with massive gaps in between. Doing nothing but guaranteeing a 86'ing, but also bolstering the appearance of a derailment campaign.

I am thinking that it is odd that interested parties would want to give the impression of an organized (and extremely bumblesome) attempt to bury the thread topic. It does not suggest to me that anyone is necessarily on the right track, but it does suggest that certain parties would like us to believe that we are.

reply to post by Springer


Thank you, Springer, for that perspective, as such would stand to more probable reason.
Of course, considering some subject matter posted, it's difficult to resist the temptation of a tinfoil hat perspective.

Opposite my house and few doors down for 15 years lived a guy I regularly use to say hi to. Had a nice girlfriend, very quiet affable and well mannered. The only thing that stood out about the guy was he and his partner's dog, a completely lovable and daffy German Shepard about the size of a small horse. I wouldn't claim the guy was ever a friend however, he'd keep an eye out, when I was away, on my place and once called me to check that the person he'd seen entering the house was the person looking after it. Physically totally unremarkable, in many ways you couldn't be more average, he was the neighbour most people would choose as one.

He's currently serving life for the contract killings of 2 people.

Originally posted by Eidolon23
I am thinking that it is odd that interested parties would want to give the impression of an organized (and extremely bumblesome) attempt to bury the thread topic. It does not suggest to me that anyone is necessarily on the right track, but it does suggest that certain parties would like us to believe that we are.

I'll address Springers and Dru's posts by commenting on yours, Eidy. Of course that thought continues to cross my mind. But it would be a mistake, I proffer, to base any assumption of whether this thread has attracted some remarkable attention--and I'm not talking about a few measly stars and flags--on the troll-that-never-dies.

I myself leave that possibility open for a few reasons, but I don't consider it an important part of whether the line of inquiry--and the questions we've raised--have a validity worth pursuing. I have other reasons that suggest to me that I've caught someone's attention.

Maybe me tinfoil is a bit tight. Squeaky tight. I can't rule out that possibility. But I also wasn't born yesterday and I do trust my own observations, research, and instinct enough to be dogged in my pursuit of that which "rings my bell." All I can say on that is my bell is all "ding-a-ling-a-ling!" Feel free to crack on the "ding-a-ling" as Springer invited us to crack on being mind-controlled by Dr. Green.

Still and all, the bell tolls. Hopefully it ain't for me.

Springer has earned my respect here on ATS: He's hyper-intelligent, charismatic, seemingly very open, and possesses a rare flair for diplomacy. I can see why he and Dr. Green are friends. They seem cut from much the same cloth. Uber-cool dudes without a doubt.

However, the insinuation that the line of thought here might be some wild accusation--if such was implied--should be contrasted against the points made here that are documentable. Which isn't to say they ALL are, but it is to say that I haven't pulled everything out of the blue, which I think is apparent.

I don't believe that there's very much of an audience here left, but I do appreciate those who have stuck around. Thank you sincerely and dearly. More will be revealed.

reply to post by The GUT


GUT,

I in NO way meant to point any of what I posted at you or this thread (trolls excluded of course). I was talking about the sources "out there" (read: on the interwebs) are a combination of what I described. I guess I should have been more clear about what I was thinking.

What you are doing is actually one of the best reviews/questioning of the subject matter I've seen and here's why...

You are willing to be swayed by facts and not worried about what the truth reveals. That's the ONLY way to go about these things my man.



Springer...

I wanted to state in public domain the any of the conversations held between Kit and I will not be made public. The private messages can cease as they are going to be ignored.

It was irresponsible of me to post any of our communication from one another, however, if I were to make a post here stating that him and I were discussing things, with this being the website of Proof Required (tm), I would have been called a troll or liar (I think I was already, somewhere within this thread).

The GUT, I will say that your judgement on character in regards to Mr. Green was accurate. The internet (certain people) have a very efficient way of spreading falsehoods about individuals and these claims cannot be refuted unless specifically, by the person in question. Even at that, how would this person prove they are themselves?

In any regard, Kit is a genuine person with his own "real life" ordeals to take care of. He has real thoughts about his own family, humanity and moving forward. I don't believe for a single moment that Kit has, or ever would be, a so called, "puppet-master". Obviously, people in powerful positions have to make decisions and those decisions are based on their own and their board of staffs best judgement. If this turns out to be the wrong decision, which happens within every avenue of life, whether it be government, retail, communications etc., people turn it into the biggest ordeal. An old saying my fellow employees and myself had at a job long ago, "do 1,000 things right and you don't even get as much as a good job, do one thing wrong, and you'll never hear the end of it."

For anyone who would post anything negative toward Mr. Green, think for a moment that this information will eventually reach this persons eyes. Think about what you're saying based on assumptions and how this may affect this person (even in the slightest way). If what you're stating about a person isn't based on 100% complete fact and you absolutely without the shadow of a doubt know it to be fact, hold your tongue and make it clear that what you may be stating is NOT based on fact.

Sometimes we forget that the things we say about individuals over the internet are real people.

We all realize how the ufological question and related subject matter arena is FULL of various forms of disinformation. Some of it intentional, it seems, and some of it a by-product of the subject matter itself. Some of it just the noise of a million different theorems battling amongst themselves.

Some of the folk we come across are, unfortunately, victims of their own psycho-pathology and very sadly susceptible to memes and suggestion. For example, many of the abductees and mind-control victims.

Heck, I think it's somewhat difficult for most of us to not be at least lightly affected by some of the memes. For example: I don't believe for a minute that our government hosted an extraterrestrial that likes Tibetan music and strawberry ice cream and yet the MJ12 stuff has permeated our consciousness to varying degrees.

That's powerful meme-ology! And it also makes some of the subject matter hard for folk to take seriously. And let's DON'T forget that Dr. Green has some undeniable ties to that subject.

AND a professional interest in factors such as the following:

True and False Memories as an Illustrative Case of the Difficulty of Developing Accurate and Practical Neurophysiological Indexes of Psychological States

An important issue for cognitive neuroscientists concerns efforts to determine whether a person is reporting a true experience or one that is false but believed. In the last decade, there have been innumerable research efforts designed to distinguish true from false memories. Earlier work examining behavioral differences between true and false memories revealed that group differences were sometimes found (for example, more sensory details in true-memory reports) (Schooler et al., 1986). However, the statistical group differences did not enable reliable classification of any particular memory report as to its authenticity...

www.nap.edu...

As such, from both sides of the fence, with all the conflicting information, it makes it rather difficult to raise and phrase the right questions. That's what I've been attempting to do, but with all the static out there it's a daunting task.

When one does manage to sluff off the slag and phrase a question in a penetrating way--that's where the gold is at. I've asked a couple that I hope have achieved that goal, but I admit I'm finding it difficult.

Having said that, as we move forward, I'm going to attempt to raise the bar on my own work and do a bang-up job on being concise and coherent as we push forth for some answers.

Now back to the abductees and mind-control victims. This is a very important point:

No one has evidence of a sufficient nature that they've been abducted by aliens, but we DO know from Blue Bird, Artichoke, and MK-Ultra that mind-control victims DO exist.

Thusly, while any particular person that CLAIMS mind-control needs to be taken with a grain of salt, we can't eschew the topic itself as a product of fantasy. Does that make sense?

I'm working hard at the moment to phrase some questions that do meet the criteria I have suggested. When and if I feel I achieve that, we're gonna start to bring this pony home and tie all of the questions thus far raised to the hitching post of truth, wherever that might lead.

One last caveat: If I do find I've slandered Dr. Green in any way, I will apologize and feel very badly indeed. Word. I like him danggit! He's cool. But that doesn't mean there might be things he's been involved with that we, as humans, want to know. One person's ethics is another person's NWO so-to-speak.

Thanks for your patience, I'll get back to work.

reply to post by Still Naive?

Still naive, Still Naive? Just joking. Sort of.

You may be a sucker-punch aimed at me and the others here. You may have been sucker-punched. You may be right on target.

But, if we are digging for the truth, all of those questions must be taken into consideration. Wouldn't you agree?

I'm feeling a little like a dog after what you posted. But I'm also a dog that HAS to tug on things that tug on my mind.

I hope that, ultimately, that's an honorable way to go about life.

Peace, brother, and thank you for participating to such an awesome extent!

Originally posted by Still Naive?
I wanted to state in public domain the any of the conversations held between Kit and I will not be made public. The private messages can cease as they are going to be ignored.

One other thing: If you would be so kind as to confirm that I wasn't one of those that sent you a u2u asking about your communications with Dr. Green, I would appreciate it.

I haven't and wouldn't--as that would be unethical of me as the researcher here. I can understand why readers would, however, and don't blame them for it

Thanks.

reply to post by The GUT


So here's 1950s proof of CIA Army Intelligence use of psychic spying tied to channeling of extraterrestrials by Puharich

The documents say they are handling Willliam Foos over to Andrija Puharich. Nick Redfern says he has the CIA files on Foos -- I was asking about his specific source for the CIA testing of Amanita Muscaria -- a legal mushroom - for psychic remote viewing in the 1950s. Anyway as Prince and Picknett focus on -- Andrija Puharich was key to "channelling" the "extraterrestrials" as the ancient aliens called the Nine. So I know the Stargate Conspiracy book gets dismissed by people a lot but I think with the recent Harry Rostizke revelation about the Aviary - -the CIA e.t. disinfo angle needs to be taken seriously. Basically there was serious remote viewing and ESP -- paranormal training going on but the E.T.s were used for disinfo to cover up secret military technology.

So yep -- it's a whole lot of strangeness.

reply to post by fulllotusqigong

I have to wonder if the tables weren't turned on Puharich himself, and he became a victim of psychological testing.

At the same time, I don't dismiss the theory that research into various PSI related phenomenon didn't cause some spooky stuff of the paranormal variety either.

Whatever "paranormal" turns out to be: Some Jungian-type phenomenon or intelligences from another dimension. Both possibilities are still open in my book.

Thanks.

It's not for short attention spans, but I highly recommend George P. Hansen's The Trickster and the Paranormal for some ideas that while they are abstract, also provide a philosophical modality for wading through some of the far-out issues this subject is sure to bring up.

More about the book.

reply to post by The GUT


So, this seems to be a one-sided deal you have here with an absent Mr. Green. Why not invite him onto ATS? The mods can easily verify identities. This way you two can fence and we all might learn something, or not. In any case, it wouldn't so one-sided anymore.

I always feel uncomfortable hearing only one side of the story when I know there may be three sides--yours, his, and the truth.

reply to post by The GUT


It's funny you recommend George P. Hansen's book to me as I introduced it to the ufological community. I read his book in 2001 and then I corresponded with him via email. Yeah so far the earliest mention of it that I made online is Sept. 2006. Then someone recommends reading it "cover to cover" on UFOmystic in Dec. 2006. O.K. I corresponded with George P. Hansen "quite a bit" in 2007.

Basically my last email exchange with George P. Hansen was regarding the precognitive psychology experiment that got so much media coverage. He critiqued the statistics of it but he didn't want me to pass along what he said. I think he later went public with it. It's similar to his critiques of Dean Radin's research.

See science is the mythology of our times. George P. Hansen proves that Western rational analysis is not appropriate to "prove" paranormal phenomenon. That's perfectly important to point out and so his book is crucial in debunking the "nuts and bolts" approach to paranormal reality which includes UFOs, the Men in Black and the Aviary.

The real kicker is what does work for paranormal training? George P. Hansen limits himself to Western studies which unfortunately lack an appropriate testing pool to find energy masters to test -- in contrast to say Dr. Yan Xin, qigong master. I would say the closest Hansen gets is to Daniel Dunglas Home whom Hansen presents as a true enigma. For a better Western analysis of paranormal reality I recommend Nandor Fodor. I suppose his books are difficult to find now -- I came across the used. But basically he takes a Freudian analysis with the idea being of a subconscious projection of stored up energy. The difference is that in yoga meditation training this projection and storing of energy is a conscious process.

I just found this thorough debunking of Hansen's writing on a UFO abduction case --

So as fascinating as George P. Hansen's book is -- I would also recommend D. Scott Rogo's book Miracles for an excellent overview of Western mystics who achieved physical bilocation -- called the "yang spirit" in qigong training -- and other cases of apparitions viewed by the masses that could be considered UFOs. anomalist.com... has republished his book.