Paul Ryan's RNC Speech "Stunning for its Dishonesty," "Full of "Brazen Lies"

reply to post by Indigo5 and Others

Dear everyone,

I hope we can take the following from Indigo5 and apply it to our reactions on this thread.

I will try to put this simply... Hoping you are actually open to rational thought and not just wed to the BS and prepared to defend whatever BS is fed to you unto death...

Unfortunately, we seem to be failing to follow her advice.

Indigo5 discussed the $716 billion less that Medicare would pay out under different budget plans. She is absolutely right that both plans, Ryan's and Obama's, would spend less money on Medicare. What Indigo5 may not have seen is the eventual destination of that money. Ryan's plan makes it a savings to the Medicare program, reducing its financial difficulties. Obama's plan uses the money to spend on Obamacare.

Considering that, Ryan is correct and there is no blatant lie.

But a larger point has popped up in the last few pages. Much has been made about this article appearing on FOX. I suppose people are thinking "If Fox puts up something bad about conservatives it must be true." For any other story, Fox is rejected here on ATS and not even discussed. The position of those people seems to be "We will accept anything, from any source, about a conservative, as long as it's bad." I'm sure you can see how people believing that have given up the search for truth and knowledge.

As an aside, Sally Kohn is a liberal writer who was hired this year by FOX to add balance. She is a commentator, and the article we are looking at is an opinion piece and not a news article.

OptimusSubprime did us a great favor. He reminded us there are two sides to this story, and linked to an article much more comprehensive than the ones discussed here. The article provides sources and references and addresses all the issues that have been raised. The article was distributed by The Blaze and, sadly, people are refusing to consider it because it was published there.

Are we so afraid of information that we can only look for it from approved vendors? Guys, you look at Infowars, RT, Iran's Press TV, and some of the goofiest sources in the world. Ignoring the article OptimusSubprime found for us almost makes us look cowardly.

Remember Indigo5's advice

I will try to put this simply... Hoping you are actually open to rational thought and not just wed to the BS and prepared to defend whatever BS is fed to you unto death...

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by Indigo5


Careful there son,,,,,,,,,,,,

I'm black,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

reply to post by jimmyfromreality


Oh boy, another birther website being promoted here.

Add that to the 1,000,001 other birther sites out there.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Fox per se, is NOT saying it. One of their liberal contributors is.

sallykohn.com...

By Sally Kohn On August 30, 2012 ·...Fox News asked me to write the liberal response to Paul Ryan’s GOP convention speech last night. So I did.

Originally posted by jimmyfromreality
reply to post by Indigo5

 

Careful there son,,,,,,,,,,,,

I'm black,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

After registering here on ATS...what?...an hour ago?

Your claims

Obama is a Muslim
Obama was born in Kenya
Obama is hiding all his records

And you are Black?

I treat all your claims as having equal veracity...

reply to post by jimmyfromreality


Hi Jimmy, I see you are newly registered. Welcome to ATS wild and wooly conspiracy forum.

Originally posted by charles1952

Indigo5 discussed the $716 billion less that Medicare would pay out under different budget plans. She is absolutely right that both plans, Ryan's and Obama's, would spend less money on Medicare. What Indigo5 may not have seen is the eventual destination of that money. Ryan's plan makes it a savings to the Medicare program, reducing its financial difficulties. Obama's plan uses the money to spend on Obamacare.

Considering that, Ryan is correct and there is no blatant lie.

At the time the health care law was being finalized and passed, Democrats said it was important to them that the new law not add to the deficit. So the reductions in Medicare spending were counted against the health care law’s new spending. Some new spending is within the Medicare program, such as increasing coverage for prescription drugs and offering preventive care with no out-of-pocket costs.

More significantly, though, the law moves to cover the uninsured, by giving them tax credits to buy private insurance. It also expands Medicaid, the state insurance program for the poor. The savings from Medicare offset that spending.

...

In fact, the law uses a number of measures to try to reduce the rapid growth of future Medicare spending. Those savings are then used to offset costs created by the law -- especially coverage for the uninsured -- so that the overall law doesn't add to the deficit.

www.politifact.com...

Ryan also repeated a claim he has made before about Medicare, that Obama "funneled" $716 billion out of the program "at the expense of the elderly" to pay for his health care law. In fact, the law limits payments to health care providers and insurers to try to reduce the rapid growth of future Medicare spending. It does not take money from the program's current budget.

www.politifact.com...

So we are agreed...the $716 Billion is in future savings and not from cutting benefits.

But here is where it gets interesting...Where did the number come from?

The 716 Billion Dollar Lie

by BooMan
Tue Aug 14th, 2012 at 08:25:29 PM EST

As the Washington Post helpfully points out, the origin of the $716 billion number the Republicans are throwing around is from a letter the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office sent to John Boehner explaining how expensive it would be to repeal Obama's health care law. Among the costs of repeal would be an additional $716 billion in Medicare spending over the next ten years.

www.boomantribune.com...

SO...Ryan kept the savings for purposes of calculating his budget...but upon repeal of Obamacare as he ahs pledged to do...he would be ELIMINATING that 716 Billion in savings to Medicare....Isn't Paul Ryan now taking 716 Billion from Medicare??? With the repeal of Obamacare??
Now the Ryan budget...

you guys are all right. lets just keep it the way it is and by 2025 it will go bankrupt and no one gets anything. There problem solved.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

 

The money Obama cut from Medicare, he took from the providers and drug companies, NOT the subscribers. The GOP is making it sound like he stole the money from the Medicare recipients.

THE FACTS: Ryan's claim ignores the fact that Ryan himself incorporated the same cuts into budgets he steered through the House in the past two years as chairman of its Budget Committee, using the money for deficit reduction. And the cuts do not affect Medicare recipients directly, but rather reduce payments to hospitals, health insurance plans and other service providers.

Christian Science Monitor

So the cuts reduce the reimbursements that the hospitals and doctors receive after servicing a Medicare patient. So the govenment instituted price fixing. Now lets watch medical rationing take affect. hahaha. good job

reply to post by Indigo5


So, tell me, how does that compare to the $1.49 TRILLION that the CBO says that Obamacare will cost between 2012-2021?

Originally posted by Maroboduus
No matter what your political leanings, we should all be able to agree that his RNC speech was ridiculous. If we're going to attack Obama for a completely out-of-context quote ("you didn't build that"), then what about the numerous outright falsehoods that Ryan resorted to?

Personally, I thought it was superb!

And Obama did not build it, nor did his cronies....
and he has no place telling me I did not build something that I did.

He could have phrased his comments differently when he said "you did'nt build that"...
but chose those words carefully. Remember, this is the professional communicator,
right? The one who gets on Reddit and does the AMA gig. We are all laughing at
that one. Just in time for the RNC.

Progressives and the slippery slope to Socialism and Communism,
its so obvious, like trying to hide a cow in a backyard.

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
I'll believe information from the Heritage Foundation and the CBO over any # Huffo Post spins. Did you know Arianna Huffington and BHO are texting buddies?

sad eyed lady

The Heritage Foundation is a right wing think tank.
Paul Ryan proposed the exact same dollar amount in cuts to medicare as well.
The heritage Foundation designed Obama-care and came up with the individual mandate a few decades ago.

Facts suck.

reply to post by Endorra

The Heritage Foundation is a right wing think tank.

Yes, so? If they're wrong, point it out. Otherwise that fact is meaningless.

Paul Ryan proposed the exact same dollar amount in cuts to medicare as well.

Yes. The Ryan plan uses it to reduce spending and the deficit, Obama's plan spends it all.

The heritage Foundation designed Obama-care and came up with the individual mandate a few decades ago.

Decades ago? Decades ago, Obama was doing blow. Circumstances and policy choices can change over thirty or so years.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


No no no. Doesn't matter if the source is usually biased. I don't support Obama, but Ryan lied his ass off all through this speech.

Here:

"A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant..." began Ryan on stage

The controversy over Ryan's accuracy starts with his version of the now closed GM plant in his hometown of Janesville, Wisc. Ryan suggested the President broke a promise to help the Janesville plant stay open and he called the plant a symbol of how the President had failed the recovery.


"It is locked up and empty to this day," Ryan said of the plant. "And that's how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight."


But GM confirmed Thursday that it shut down the Janesville plant a month before the president took office. Candidate Obama did promise "an effort to retool plants like the GM facility in Janesville," but GM statement says "from a business perspective, (the Janesville closing) was a done deal" by December 2008.


Ryan also blamed the president for failing to act on the Simpson-Bowles debt commission - a bipartisan panel that proposed deficit reductions of around $4 trillion - by combining tax increases with spending cuts. Again, the lack of action was the president's fault.


"They came back with an urgent report," Ryan said on stage. "He thanked them, sent them on their way, and then did exactly nothing."


It's true that the president never endorsed Simpson-Bowles - but Ryan played a major role in why the commission failed. Ryan was a member on that panel, but cast a critical vote against its recommendations because he said there were not enough controls on the cost of health care.

www.cbsnews.com...

That's right he ripped on the president for not doing anything when the debt commission came back with an urgent report... but PAUL RYAN was actually ON THE COMMISSION and VOTED AGAINST THE RECOMMENDATIONS.
Come on guys. That's the kind of slimy thing that turns me off to someone forever. If you worked with someone that tried to pull something like that with you at your job, say a co-worker, you would be disgusted by that person for life. He is a snake in the grass, liar.

How do you respond to these? I would love to se any republicans step up to the plate to try to talk them away.

reply to post by Endorra

WTF are you talking about? This is the most ignorant response I have ever read. Ryan spends it all. Obama actually uses it to pay for other healthcare. Ryan put it towards what? TAX BREAKS FOR THE RICH. That is it and that is a check-able fact.

In the meanwhile, Obama just placed a tax on the poor and middle class who can't afford health care and is expanding the Medicaid program. According to CBO, Obamacare is going to cost $1.49 - $1.7 TRILLION over the next ten years. Obama spends it all and then some.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Your claim has already been shot down.

Read the transcript.

Ryan only uses Janesville as an example of many cities that were led to believe from Obama that "government support" is the cure all for national recovery. He also mentioned the failing of stimulus to recover the nation. Obviously, "government support" alone isn't enough to recover the nation, no matter how much Obama wants everyone to believe it. That is all Ryan pointed out if you read the transcript.

Quote from Obama in Janesville:

"I believe that if our government is there to support you, this plant will be here for another 100 years."

Read more: www.foxnews.com...

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

How do you respond to these? I would love to se any republicans step up to the plate to try to talk them away.

Already did.

You don't even have to look any further than this link below.

Here's a link to a page explaining all of this from another thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Maybe I should recopy all of these posts over to here.

reply to post by Deetermined


No.. you already didn't. You responded poorly to half of it. He shouldn't have made such a big deal out of his specific example, but fine i'll give you that one. You ignored the second example completely. ALSO those weren't the only two lies he told. I am looking for an NPR article that gave a better list.

Ryan also blamed the president for failing to act on the Simpson-Bowles debt commission - a bipartisan panel that proposed deficit reductions of around $4 trillion - by combining tax increases with spending cuts. Again, the lack of action was the president's fault.


"They came back with an urgent report," Ryan said on stage. "He thanked them, sent them on their way, and then did exactly nothing."


It's true that the president never endorsed Simpson-Bowles - but Ryan played a major role in why the commission failed. Ryan was a member on that panel, but cast a critical vote against its recommendations because he said there were not enough controls on the cost of health care.

I have never seen so many people just flat out clowning themselves by buying into these tools. You seriously rush to defend idiots that LIE to you so they can screw you over in the name of their sponsers. It's a pretty good joke.

reply to post by charles1952

But a larger point has popped up in the last few pages. Much has been made about this article appearing on FOX. I suppose people are thinking "If Fox puts up something bad about conservatives it must be true." For any other story, Fox is rejected here on ATS and not even discussed. The position of those people seems to be "We will accept anything, from any source, about a conservative, as long as it's bad." I'm sure you can see how people believing that have given up the search for truth and knowledge.

Dr. Charles,

or....

...we note and make light of the fact that even FOX, as in EVEN FOX - is pointing out that (ahem) Ryan is not exactly on target with all of his facts

if your point is that we who now embrace this latest buzz out of Fox are somehow....oh, what would you be implying...hypocritical maybe?

well - seriously Charles - it's not like we're not going to notice they said it - are we?

:-)