The Army Has Issued Anti-Suicide Nasal Spray To Keep Troops From Taking The

Originally posted by davolobos
Most of these suicides are related to tours of duty in Afghanistan. They aren't allowed to carry enough ammo to shoot the bastards dead. Too many rules in place to "protect" the "civilians" who are helping the taliban. They have to sleep with someone on watch as a Guardian Angel to make sure no Afghans get in there and shoot them up. And the same Afghans they are training are only waiting for an opportunity to pop a shot into one of them.

Afghanistan is a backwards ass country that does not wish to be modernized. They want to continue to live like its back in the 7th century. Its time to leave that damn place but before we do we need to implement the air assault with foliage spray to permanently wipe out those damn poppy flowers that the Afghans use to produce highly concentrate Opium.

WOW, talk about ignorant.
Sorry, but how about the fact that WAR is just flat out wrong? Maybe if we never went to Afganistan under phony pretences and destroying lives, both ours and Afganistanis.

How are they (the Afganis') "Bastards" ? We invaded their country, Osama Bin Laden was from Saudi Arabia. We created the Muhajadeen and Osama was a CIA operative!. Look it up!. We created the mess, then you call them "bastards" after all the brainwashing about Islam! Then you want to make the same stupid mistake we made in Vietnam (another war under false pretenses) and take Napalm and "Defoliate" (Ie POISON) their land and destroy more innocent lives!. (like THAT is going to make more friends abroad.. I think not).

yeah ,that is an "enlightened" point of view.

Furthermore, the way we treat soldiers as fodder is disgusting. They are used as guinea pigs, and are treated to trauma abuse brainwashing techniques so they will kill. Of course they are now suffering depression. We destroy their minds to create killers and then we send them home and offer them no support but now some magic "HAPPY drug" that probably DOES have a ton of side effects and addiction and great, will just create a passive euporhic feeling (so they won't fight back?). nice.

I will say as a 6yr active duty member of the Army, that a nasal spary will not work in the long run. Look at the other medicine that they give to us when we deploy...Mefloquine Hydrochloride and Doxycycline are anti-malaria medications. The mefloquine is taken 1 pill once a week and the doxy is 1 pill taken once a day. Ive taken both and will tell you that many of us have quit taking them all together and would rather risk malaria than deal with the side effects that accompany the pills. I dont even want to think about what side effects will come with this. I would imagine that they will issue it out to deploying soldiers and soldiers who are redeploying from Afghanistan. There will be abuse of this if it is implemented just like there was abuse of the Antropene auto injectors at the beginning of the war.

I encourage all of you to look up the side effects of both pills and weigh the risk/reward of them

Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
That is very strange, but not surprising. We, as a culture, are taught to treat the symptoms instead of treating the cause. Get them OUT of the hostile, foreign environment, where they're doing things that go against their personal morals and fear for their lives every moment! That's the answer, not nasal spray!

To be fair to the armed forces here, they dont have any say whatsoever about whether or not they are in Afghanistan. Its the politicians that decide such things.
So since they're stuck (for political reasons) in a place they dont wish to be, maybe they're just doing what they can to help the troops survive.

then how bout we get OUT of Afganistan then...... ????

I swear, some day, we will wake up and see the idiocy of war, see that most wars are CREATED by Elites and banks to create enemies to keep us fighting and killing one another over resources and land and power. Will we wake up?

I can't believe someone also actually said we should spray defolient over the poppy fields. great.. so we now Poison the land that will prevent them from ever growing food. think about why they might be growing Poppies? I would say that opium is another way to keep folks fighting. But you don't poison the land and people just to punish them.

People are so brainwashed... ugh>

In 1931, Audous Huxley wrote his novel Brave New World warning of the loss of individuality and freedom by state control of technology and science, and human reproduction He described the widespread use of soma, a medication meant to salve the pain and sorrow of this human and social transformation while keeping the multitude “happy” and without revolt against the state.

firstprinciplespress.org...

Interesting other article.

Originally posted by jaguarsky

Originally posted by Xaphan

Originally posted by davolobos
Its time to leave that damn place but before we do we need to implement the air assault with foliage spray to permanently wipe out those damn poppy flowers that the Afghans use to produce highly concentrate Opium.

Brilliant idea... isn't that where most medical grade opiates come from? By doing this people in hospitals would have no Morphine, Codeine, Demerol, Vicodin etc.

Exactly! During the first phase of the war the poppy fields were burned with abandon in order to cut funds to the Taliban. It worked, sort of. But then it was noticed that there was a critical shortage of medical grade opiates; even for the very soldiers who were being blown apart while doing their duty burning the poppy fields. Now we guard them.

War is funny that way.

Three types of opioids used in medicine.

Natural alkaloids of opium derived from the resin of the opium poppy: opium, morphine, codeine.

Semisynthetic derivatives of morphine: heroin, hydromorphone, oxycodone

Purely synthetic opioids, including meperidine, methadone, and propoxyphene.

Opium poppies are legally grown under government license in Turkey and India, and a large proportion of the world's legal opium is grown under Government license in Tasmania (island State off the South of Australia).

If someone is truly set on commiting suicide then a nasal spray wont deter them from achieving that goal. They arebt going to stop to think" better spray this stuff in my nose so i dont kill myself right now". Its a temporary euphoric state that once they come down from they either will be dependent and addicted to the high in turn making them addicted to it which will be no better than someone pissing hot for illegal drugs. It will degrade mission readiness and morale. Or they will br in an even darker place than before they got high and will want to kill themselfs even more. Its a lose lose IMO

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by WozaMeathed

 

Notice that since the war in afghanistan started death from pain pill overdose has taken over car crashes as the leading cause of accidental death in America. They are putting everyone on oxycontin and those people are dealing them on the street. When they can't afford the pills or can't get them anymore those people move on to heroin.

Some people would say the government wants us fat and strung out.

Pain was added to the list of vital signs to be checked on each visit/s to a Dr./clinic/ER,etc... .[effective Jan.2000]
this time frame coincides with the war in Afghanistan. Pain as a 5th vital sign

"They" are not putting everyone on Oxycontin/opiates at all, and as a matter of fact it can be very difficult to be treated for chronic pain. There are several hoops a person must jump through to be properly treated for CP, because of the addicts and the overall stigma attached to taking any type of opiates, especially on a regular basis or over an extended period of time-such as in the case of the CPP [or-chronic pain patient].

The war did not start the deaths and OD's from pain medication-abuse, addiction, and lack of responsibility causes these deaths. [Other than those contributed to true accidental overdose].

Most people who take pain medication for CP would never dream of selling their medication/s 'on the street', as you say, because life without them is unimaginable. Yes, there are those who abuse the system and dupe their Drs, who prescribe these medications, but those type are generally going to be found out in time [because of the hoops I mentioned earlier], then discharged from their Dr. because of non-compliance. If & when this happens their medical/pharmacy records will prevent them from carrying on with their illegal activity-at least in that same manner.

This nasal spray bothers me for several reasons, but not in it's manner of administration [bioavailability], more-so in how it might affect the persons psyche, and of course the addiction issue. Anything effecting a person in a manner such as stated in the reading of this medication is going to be addictive-euphoria is addictive. Maybe not always and for everyone, but it most definitely can be addictive.

New treatment centers for addiction are opening up all across these United States [and elsewhere], and in the medical community is well known to be one of the new and upcoming big businesses .. this is job creation in a sick new form IMO.

New facilities are added monthly.

Search more than 8,000 mental health treatment facilities or programs around the country. In addition to the search categories above, look for facilities providing targeted programs or groups for persons with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD); traumatic brain injury (TBI); Alzheimer's or other dementia; adults with serious mental illness (SMI); young adults (ages 18-25); or veterans. Find facilities providing crisis intervention or psychiatric emergency walk-in services.

Link

Buy stock now

I have looked on the web and have not found where there have been any cases of this being addictive. If anyone has found information to the contrary could you please post the link? I have read many posts here so far where others have stated this will lead to addiction but no one so far has provided any factual data to back these claims. From what I have researched so far this spray seems to be useful and I don’t see any reason why it should not be at our troop’s disposal.

As a former soldier I am glad they are making progress. As one poster said the typical way soldiers have dealt with such things in the past has been to self-medicate with alcohol I have seen this first hand and partaken myself. I lost a friend to alcohol poisoning on a deployment overseas so to me these nasal sprays seem like a good idea.

Data on TRH

reply to post by Ex


EX your statement is so true. When feeling pressure it is best to write down how feeling. In this way they can go back and retrace the trend they seem to be heading into. It helps in any case, even if the mental state is seriously depressed.

I would love to read a book on their experiences too. Maybe they can't though because so much of it is classified. Tough for them, because they are told not to talk. This doesn't help the depression much.

reply to post by Druscilla

Support your troops, regardless whether you support the cause and reasons they're there, wherever 'there' may be, and for whatever reason.

No, no, no!!! These blind support antics are what got us in this bind to begin with, don't you see? Of course not, for you are blind.

You cannot support the hand that carries out the deed without supporting the mind behind it as well. I have empathy and understanding for our troops, but support? None. Compassion and sympathy for their intentions and situations they find themselves in? Yes, but this still does not justify what is being done.

reply to post by Grimpachi


I just see a complex problem. It's difficult to verify a simplistic cause. I sure wish I could as I hate seeing these Soldiers end it. What a waste.

As far as the conspiracy thing, I suppose one could see that if we expand the definition of conspiracy. While not an X-Files quality conspiracy, it is more of a mundane, non-sexy, left hand meet right hand sort of thing.

I suppose if I want some stars I could thrown in aliens, the Illuminati, and Obama/Romney.

reply to post by loam




My cousin's kid had the same thing with Play-Do. They took a toy air pump, stuck it up the other nostril and blew it out. Probably not doctor recommended but it worked.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by Xaphan

Originally posted by davolobos
Its time to leave that damn place but before we do we need to implement the air assault with foliage spray to permanently wipe out those damn poppy flowers that the Afghans use to produce highly concentrate Opium.

Brilliant idea... isn't that where most medical grade opiates come from? By doing this people in hospitals would have no Morphine, Codeine, Demerol, Vicodin etc.

I didn't know that.

That stuff doesn't grow anywhere else?

Morphine and heroin are the only substances made from opium, and we call them "opiates". However, "opioids" are sythetic opiates, and can be manufactured without opium. So aside from the morphine, all of the other drugs in the list would continue to be manufactured.

And what about the US soldiers guarding the poppy fields? Or was that CIA...

reply to post by chasingbrahman

Morphine and heroin are the only substances made from opium, and we call them "opiates". However, "opioids" are sythetic opiates, and can be manufactured without opium. So aside from the morphine, all of the other drugs in the list would continue to be manufactured.

I'm afraid where ever you got your information from is not credible.

Opioids have three sub groups; Opiates, semi-synthetic opioids, and synthetic opioids.

Opiates are naturally accruing and for the most part is just morphine and codeine.

Semi synthetics are built upon existing opiates and include hydrocodone, oxycontin, oxycodone, diacetylmorphine ( heroin ) and some others.

Synthetic opioids are entirely human manufactured and are not derived from the opium plant. They are not chemically related to opiates at all, but act on your opioid receptors, thus synthetic opioids. They include such things as methadone and meperidine ( pethidine for those of you outside the US )

Originally posted by twistedlogic
reply to post by chasingbrahman

 

Morphine and heroin are the only substances made from opium, and we call them "opiates". However, "opioids" are sythetic opiates, and can be manufactured without opium. So aside from the morphine, all of the other drugs in the list would continue to be manufactured.

I'm afraid where ever you got your information from is not credible.

Opioids have three sub groups; Opiates, semi-synthetic opioids, and synthetic opioids.

Opiates are naturally accruing and for the most part is just morphine and codeine.

Semi synthetics are built upon existing opiates and include hydrocodone, oxycontin, oxycodone, diacetylmorphine ( heroin ) and some others.

Synthetic opioids are entirely human manufactured and are not derived from the opium plant. They are not chemically related to opiates at all, but act on your opioid receptors, thus synthetic opioids. They include such things as methadone and meperidine ( pethidine for those of you outside the US )

edit on 21-8-2012 by twistedlogic because: (no reason given)

An opioid is a synthetic, or semi-synthetic opiate, and an opiate is a drug derived directly from the poppy plant. However, in your first sentence, if you switch the words "opiate" with "opioid", you would then be correct.

In case you still don't believe me, you can check here or here or even here.

I believe you may be getting a bit tangled up by the recent shift toward classifying all of these drugs as opioids, since they are now more prevalent. But when they are being discussed concurrently, this dividing line that I'm emphasizing must be used. However, I omitted codeine from my list of those drugs derived directly from the poppy plant - thank you for pointing that out!

reply to post by chasingbrahman


No, they are classified as opioids because an opioid is a chemical that interacts with your opioid receptors, get it? Pharmacology Database

Your sources are "thatspoppycock.com", "thefreedictionary.com" and some website who's developers are not even apt enough to use html that works across all operating systems...... you have only validated my point of your non credible sources.

I am classifying them as they are classified medically and chemically. There are even two more categories that I have excluded; Esters of Morphine(really more semi synthetics) and the naturally occurring opioids in your body, Endogenous opioid peptides. I stand by everything I have said.

And regardless of the semantics semi synthetics still require opiates to be engineered. opiates/semisynthetic opioids require the opium plant, synthetics do not.

and can be manufactured without opium. So aside from the morphine, all of the other drugs in the list would continue to be manufactured.

But my point is not classification, my point is there is a lot more aside from morphine that would cease to be made.

Originally posted by twistedlogic
reply to post by chasingbrahman

 

No, they are classified as opioids because an opioid is a chemical that interacts with your opioid receptors, get it? Pharmacology Database

Your sources are "thatspoppycock.com", "thefreedictionary.com" and some website who's developers are not even apt enough to use html that works across all operating systems...... you have only validated my point of your non credible sources.

I am classifying them as they are classified medically and chemically. There are even two more categories that I have excluded; Esters of Morphine(really more semi synthetics) and the naturally occurring opioids in your body, Endogenous opioid peptides. I stand by everything I have said.

And regardless of the semantics semi synthetics still require opiates to be engineered. opiates/semisynthetic opioids require the opium plant, synthetics do not.

and can be manufactured without opium. So aside from the morphine, all of the other drugs in the list would continue to be manufactured.

But my point is not classification, my point is there is a lot more aside from morphine that would cease to be made.

edit on 22-8-2012 by twistedlogic because: (no reason given)

Your link discusses opioid receptors - not differences between the term "opiate" and "opioid". Was it your intent to provide another link which discussed the topic we're on here?

Instead of insulting the links ATS members provide you with, it may benefit you to reply with an alternative link which refutes the other's link, and supports your own facts.

Normally, I just allow folks with the wrong information to carry on their merry way. But for some reason, when it comes to biochemistry, I just can't let people believe false information - probably because it has the potential to be dangerous.

Off-topic question, but did you just begin, or are you in the midst of, a pharmacy technician program?

reply to post by chasingbrahman


You're missing the point entirely. I provided that link to show that both opioids and opiates are received by the OPIOID receptors. If something acts upon the OPIOID receptors, it is an OPIOID. I will give you that in conversation, even between medical professionals, opiate and opioid are often used interchangeably so much confusion arises, BUT by definition they all fall under the category of opioids, because, once again, they interact with the OPIOID receptors.

Also once again, that is not my original point.

So aside from the morphine, all of the other drugs in the list would continue to be manufactured.

My point was, you are wrong. Morphine is not even close to the only drug that would cease to be made without the opium plant since both opiates and semi synthetics(because they are built on existing opiates) are derived from chemicals in the plant.

— Opioids include all semi- and fully synthetic narcotic analgesics (e.g. oxycodone, methadone), and also refers to the entire family of opiates and opioids.
— The word opiate describes narcotic analgesics derived from a natural source

Your own source says it all right there, what are you getting confused about?

And no, not a pharmacy technician or in any program to do with medicine. Just electrical engineering, physics, and chemistry. I have stated my message clearly three separate times and still stand by everything I have said.