My Hypocrisy Towards Homosexuality: A Personal Revelation

Originally posted by Onewhoknowsjesus
First an foremost....someone who has a personal preference to sleep with someone of the same sex is not natural.Second, everyone's personal sex choices should be kept private, not strewn all throughout media and internet...etc,does not matter if they are gay,straight,or whatever the case may be,it should be kept private from internet,and television for the same respect one has to be 21 to purchase nude magazines,pornography.etc.Sex subjects should be handled with more reserve and judgement than they are....but demoralization of people seems to be a new "sickness"(trend). I for one am offended by this demanding and forceful expectation to accept such lewd behavior and disrespectful display's of one's own personal sexuality.

Well, you've gone and done what the OP specifically asked NOT to do in her thread. So, no one should ever admit to having a significant other at all in public? Just pretend they are alone? We all show our sexual choices all the time in public when we talk about our boyfriends/girlfriends/husbands/wives - when we bring our boyfriends/girlfriends/husbands/wives to public places. It's part of being a social human - and should not be kept secret.

To keep this somewhat on topic, I would respond that what was made in the movie was a "relationship" reference, not a "sexual" reference. Much like the Disney movies where the girl falls in love with the prince, and they end up getting married. To children, there's no sex there. To a child, there's no sex involved in having a "boyfriend" or "girlfriend". Only the adults associate sex with those relationships. I remember my daughter telling us she wanted to marry her dad when she was about 5 years old. She obviously didn't know anything about sexual relationships at that time. I would say that small children wouldn't get the gay sex reference at all in what was said in the movie. But the adults sure did! If you're old enough to "get it", then you're old enough to know it exists. And if you're too young to get it, then it really isn't an issue, is it?

Edited again to say I think this bothered the OP because it's still fairly new to address homosexuality in the movies, especially in movies directed primarily to children. When you see more and more, it will become less of a shock to you. Have you seen the movie "Brave"? While it doesn't at all imply that the heroine is gay, there is a message that the girl doesn't have to pine away for a male to live happily ever after with - and that's pretty different from the old Disney movies. And she is pretty tomboyish. When I took my daughter to see it, I noticed there were a few obviously gay women there, so I don't think it was my imagination that the movie has that very subtle underlying theme. And the movie ends with the very prim and proper, overly feminine mother finally accepting her daughter for who she is.

reply to post by otherpotato


Thanks...yeah it was actually my best friend who helped me, not my Mom....so it's a silly point really.....

I couldn't agree more, who the heck is rating childrens programming, why so many adult themes totally inappropriate for kids? There is a cartoon that comes in here at 7pm, called the "Family Guy"...now it does give a warning it is for mature audiences.....but why in the world is it on so early, during a very busy and vulnerable time in a families day? How many parents just see the kids watching a cartoon, and don't realise the content, yes, I know the parent SHOULD know.....but after getting kids to school, working all day, getting dinner ready, kids homework done, laundry, etc., etc.....parents are friggin tired, and a happy kid watching cartoons is a much needed break before bedtime, which was always the last battle of the day with my child when she was little.

Now, I think the cartoon is uncomfortably funny, but come on, the daughter masturbating with hotdogs, the phycho gay baby, the promiscuous dog, the father made to look like a complete idiot, the perverted old pedafile....it's completely irresponsible to air this cartoon at 7pm in the evening on a major network, warning or not.

It's unfortunate that gay rights, seems to get thrown in a big mix of issues concerning sexual morality...and I don't know the answers....sexuality is complicated, and as much as something may make me personally uncomfortable, I believe people should be free to express themselves if no harm is caused to others. BUT...now here's the tricky part......WHAT constitutes "harm"....especially to children? The gay rights parade in SF, CA.....is VERY sexually orientated, during the day, in public......men in chaps with thier butts exposed, simulation of sex acts, flagrant drag queens, basically it is a celebration to many of total disreguard for modesty or family friendly behavior....lol.....somehow I don't see our friend and MOD tenth there sporting chaps....

Originally posted by Robonakka
You have been forced by society to think something is ok when you were programmed from birth by God to know instinctively that it is wrong. I personally do not give in to peer pressure. So my beliefs do not change to suit the current fads. You appear to be the other kind. The kind who accepts things to be fair and appear tolerant. Nothing is fair and that is not going to change and I merely tolerate those who I feel are immoral in so far as I do not actively seek them harm. Few have the intestinal fortitude needed to go against the tide in a manner that one knows will eventually overwhelm them and pass them by. You are not one of those people. Therefore you reacted normally to hearing the boy was a perv. Then your societal programming kicked in and you doubted your reaction. This is normal for people who deny obvious morality. As you flow with the outgoing tide, going deeper into your programmed depravity you will encounter this more and more.

Society has not forced me to accept anything. I don't cave to peer pressure, I think for myself and act for myself. Hence this entire thread....if I cared about peer pressure, I wouldn't post something so potentially flammable.
Having said that, your beliefs are based on your religious affiliation....and I am agnostic. My spiritual searching has been lifelong; I was raised Christian, decided to be a missionary, and earned a bachelor's degree in theology. It was around that time that I began to recognize and address the very real issues concerning all religions and the concept of a personal god.
I do not say this to invalidate your views, which are your own and therefore appropriate for you. However, your beliefs on this issue are not the final say on the subject. Others believe differently, and as long as you are accepting of their right to believe what they wish, then that is all I ask.

Originally posted by otherpotato
What I think is a bigger issue is a lot of these so called "kids" movies have a whole lot of adult references in them that make me wonder who the hell is rating these movies these days? It's not so much the reference itself that gets me, and whether I am comfortable with my children seeing it, but that a movie rated for children should not have so many clearly adult references and humor in them. I had the same reaction to the movie Madagascar 3. That had all kinds of adult themes in it that my husband and I raised our eyebrows over. But then again Bambi and Fantasia and Dumbo have some pretty strong adult themes too so I suppose this is nothing new...

I agree, this movie probably should have been rated pg-13 (not for the sexual reference so much, but because it was pretty creepy.). Actually, it would be better if there was a rating between pg and pg-13, like pg-10. That would be a more appropriate fit, 13 is a little old for this movie. But had I known how creepy it was going to be, I wouldn't have taken him to see it. He's only six, after all.

Interesting that you mentioned the Madagascar movie; we saw that this summer and I was struck by the notion that the movie pushed the idea of interracial relationships. I say that because you've got the various animals falling in love with other species. I don't want to derail this thread, and I have no problem with interracial couples, but that was the thought that went through my mind while watching the movie.

Hi OP, I only read the opening post so far.

I think it's good that you morally interrogate yourself like this, and it certainly doesn't make you a homophobe or a bigot at all.

I've got friends with kids and decided that I'm not going to say or do anything consciously gay around them (like humor or admitting attractions, or adult banter).
The reason is that they'll find out when they're old enough to understand, and my friends are also Christians and I don't want to confuse their current values, but I also feel that there are many ways to be gay, so why make the one gay person in their life act like a stereotype?
I'm for equal gay parenting, and even in that situation I wouldn't deliberately pull attention to my sexuality.

Recently we had a barbeque, and this one kid kept making faces behind my back.
He's the best friend of the 9-year-old child of my friends.
His mother kept telling him to stop it, although she had a smirk on her face, and wasn't really serious.
I realized what was going on and just ignored it.

After they left my friend (the wife of the couple) told me that she told the kids that I was gay!
I was actually quite upset after the effort I made for all those years to be non-offensive or blatant.
I asked her why and how it happened.

She said they came home from school for a sleep-over, and they kept joking about a boy who liked other boys.
She then said although she's Christian and doesn't think being gay is right, she wants no homophobia or racism in the house.
That's admirable.
But then she said she told them that Uncle Halfoldman (my name obviously) also likes "boys".
I was devastated.
In Afrikaans the word for "boy" (seuntjie) doesn't have the adult variation of meaning "girls" or "boys" can have in English.
Even her husband was upset at her revelation, because she was trying to speak in child language, but she basically inferred I was a pedophile (although it's not what she meant)!

I've taken it in my stride, and I was essentially outed.
Although my friend meant well, it was not nice to experience homophobia from a kid.
Obviously one can't take it seriously, but clearly that kid already had homophobic notions from somewhere, and by the amused reaction of his mother I have a suspicion from where.

Incidentally, I saw a Christian movie recently on TBN (I can't remember the name) and it begins with a guy dating a girl in a DVD/video shop, and she says her co-worker is going home with his boyfriend.
The guy is quite delighted because he first thought the gay guy was romantic competition for the woman, and he says that he's surprised at their friendship, because he always thought Christians don't like gays.
The rest of the film was about the straight romance in a Christian context, and I thought that was great.
The gay character was just a normal part of life.
It beat many non-Christian movies with doomed or flaming gay stereotypes.
That I can handle, or anything that at least puts gay people in a normal plot.
Cheap thrills and forced twists using gay characters I don't like (unless the whole movie is adult satire).

One other thing that shocked me - I recently saw the film ET again.
In one scene the child protagonist calls another child a dreadful curse word that relates to the breath smelling like male genitalia.
I thought oh my hat, they had kids saying those things in the 1980s!
I never noticed it back then, but our movies were heavily censored at that time.

So perhaps one way to deal with uncomfortablitiy is to put it in a wider context.
But maybe it's a good starting point for considering how discussing sexuality could progress one day when the kids are older.

reply to post by halfoldman


You handled this situation like a true gentleman......and it sounds like it was hurtful.....
As adults we need to have some sort of "filter" for exposing kids to sexuality...and boy is that a tough subject for every parent........this woman betrayed everyone involved, including her children.....and again I admire you were a class act in a horrible situation....

reply to post by MountainLaurel

Thanks so much for your kind post.


Also for me there's no standard blueprint on how to handle these topics with kids.
It's especially confusing when kids are at a stage where they are very aware, but they're no quite ready for those discussions either.
It would be different in a situation where kids have lots of gay adults in an environment, where they will naturally know that we come in all varieties.
But being the only one in a conservative milieu (although despite being Christians the adults still live it up after some wine and beer) seems like I have an extra onus of being exemplary.

I've thought about it a lot.
I think my friend actually meant well.
But I always thought that one day when their kid is a teenager or even older I could tell him personally, and answer any questions he might have.
Maybe my notion was unrealistic here too.
Well the cat's out of the bag now, although I haven't changed anything.
That child has always been respectful, and finds me generally amusing, which is great.

My concern is more about the other kid who was pulling the faces.
Recently he pulled some Karate move on another kid, and when the step-dad came to collect him and found out, he actually made a fist in the child's face, as in just wait till we get home.
But I don't see them often in any case.

reply to post by smyleegrl


I don't think this makes you a hypocrite at all. There is a difference between supporting the freedom and liberty of a group of people, in this case, the gay community, and having an agenda shoved down your throat. Just as a person should be free to marry whom they want, a person should also be free to not accept or tolerate it, in a non-violent way of course. The fact that this was put into a movie geared towards children is upsetting, because it is not Hollywood's job to teach your kids tolerance and acceptance... it is yours.

Originally posted by jheated5
Sorry I really believe the whole line in the movie was in bad taste.... Did they really need to go there with it in a kids movie? You don't need to teach this to your kids, adolescents yes, kids no.... Where has all the innocents gone as a child? Why do people want to strip it away? There is something really mentally wrong with people in society today.....

I'm trying to keep my two kids somewhat innocent and let them naturally flow into life's sexuality, and not be slammed head first into it.

I disagree with a lot of behaviors even though I agree that people can and should be allowed to have those behaviors. I can disagree with what we pen as the gay lifestyle while still having friends that live it. To the OP, you might support it as much as you can, but that doesn't really mean that deep down inside you agree with it 100%.

Why not put into a kids movie two girls and a guy all dating each other at the same time, they can all kiss and hold hands with each other. .. or is it something we really don't need to have in a kids movie in the first place..

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by acmpnsfal
I really respect the fact that you identified your personal hypocrisy and instead of ignoring it or making an excuse, you want to understand and change it. Maybe it would be helpful to figure out why in that moment you felt uncomfortable with your son seeing a gay person portrayed in the movie. I mean while the reaction you had was unexpected it has to be rooted in a thought process. Were scared it might influence him to become gay?

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

I don't know.

I made a thread here a few months back, I won't take the time to link it but it was called "My Son Wants to Be A Girl" or something similar. You can find it in my profile. Anyway, my son had noticed me painting my fingernails and wanted his painted. So I painted his, thinking who wouldn't want their nails an awesome shade of glitter. After that, we had about a week of him commenting that he wanted to wear lipstick and be a girl. He's back to being all boy, recently refused to use pink scissors because they were "girl scissors" and i think that's pretty normal for a child his age.

What would I do if my son turned out to be homosexual? Love him, accept him, and support him. But I can't pretend otherwise....I would feel somewhat dissapointed, too.

Hypocrisy. Doesn't dissapointment imply a subtle lack of respect? So maybe I'm only okay with others being homosexual, but not my child? I have a homosexual cousin and its no big deal; we live in different states but he brings his partner to our family reunions and its perfectly fine with everyone.

More to think about. Thank you.

I think whether you are being hypocritical or not hinges on the reason behind the disappointment if your son turned out to be gay. I mean, would you be disappointed at the very fact of him being homosexual, the knowledge that you might possibly never have grandchildren, or due to the possible hurt and discrimination that he might well experience just for being gay?

The reason(s) for disappointment could be varied. Whether the disappointment would be hypocritical or not depends on the thoughts behind it.

reply to post by halfoldman


Oh my gosh.....even in CA men hide being gay.......so I can't imagine your reality in an environment that "shuns" gays......the whole thing just makes me want to cry........I have gone into detail in other threads that my ex husband, father of our child was gay........and man, it sucked.......no other words I can come up with...broke hearts for all concerned........

Originally posted by halfoldman
My concern is more about the other kid who was pulling the faces.
Recently he pulled some Karate move on another kid, and when the step-dad came to collect him and found out, he actually made a fist in the child's face, as in just wait till we get home.
But I don't see them often in any case

The one question I would have is why did the kid who seemed to know what "gay" is and saw it as a bad thing, or something to make fun about. My kids have used the term "that's gay" as is used in a negative way to describe something. I ask them what does that mean, and they really didn't know other than it is commonly used as they used it. I tell them it is kind of stupid to use terms that really make no sense in the first place and it gets them to think and to tell their friends when they use something like that the same thing I told them.

Somewhere that kid was taught that "gay" stood for something not good, stupid, wrong etc...and his parents didn't put forth any effort to correct it.

reply to post by smyleegrl


IT wasn't wrong to gasp.

You were set up and forced by a Luciferean Occult and Gay (not in natural form but by their ceremonies and their mindset of misogyny and trying to topple Sophia all these years and totally twisting truth. They're not all gay, they're a sick bunch) to watch this POLITICAL PROPAGANDA ending.

And I just like you support complete natural sexuality as the person is oriented to, with full infinite rights, but I don't support being deliberately SET UP OR MANIPULATED.

I would have felt bad for my kids too, at having them witness and experience this wanna be elite controllers, force feed (rub our faces in) our impotence at freeing our country from their Massive Control. That we had to be forcefully manipulated with no recourse.

That its not natural to show the typical traits of the movie designed to appeal to the normal folk, the average folk watching, including the typical female falling in love with the so called hero, only to have this twist.

It would be a let down as well to the natural storyline, to most people, and would be a huge disappointment based on Natural Expectations built into people by the script.

So the whole thing was just manipulation and I hate manipulation.

By the way, this whole issue on homosexuality is clouded over by TPTB's distorted mindsets and that they despise families, along with women, and want to take away all parenting rights too.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by jheated5
Sorry I really believe the whole line in the movie was in bad taste.... Did they really need to go there with it in a kids movie? You don't need to teach this to your kids, adolescents yes, kids no.... Where has all the innocents gone as a child? Why do people want to strip it away? There is something really mentally wrong with people in society today.....

I'm trying to keep my two kids somewhat innocent and let them naturally flow into life's sexuality, and not be slammed head first into it.

I disagree with a lot of behaviors even though I agree that people can and should be allowed to have those behaviors. I can disagree with what we pen as the gay lifestyle while still having friends that live it. To the OP, you might support it as much as you can, but that doesn't really mean that deep down inside you agree with it 100%.

Why not put into a kids movie two girls and a guy all dating each other at the same time, they can all kiss and hold hands with each other. .. or is it something we really don't need to have in a kids movie in the first place..

edit on 19-8-2012 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)

I'm confused. Was there sex in this movie? Were there two men kissing or holding hands in the movie?

reply to post by MountainLaurel

I'm from SA (South Africa).
I can't say gays are deliberately shunned, and I'm clearly not shunned by my friends.
My social environment also doesn't represent everyone in SA.
But not every place has masses of gay people, and too much discussion is around places that do.

But yeah, the way it was handled was hurtful, even if my friend didn't mean it to be hurtful.

But I suppose that imperfection is to be expected.
Perhaps every generation had a social issue like that.
Mixed-race couples are still unusual in Hollywood blockbusters (unless they deliberately set out to explore that issue).
Heck, even Kevin Costner just happened to find a white woman to marry amongst the Sioux in Dances With Wolves.

Even when Mel Gibson's The Passion first came out many people felt uncomfortable watching it with their kids (although some churches actively encouraged this at the time, despite the age restriction).
So sometimes our feelings are not in line with our assumed values, especially when it comes to film and representation.

I recall the first gay-themed movie I ever watched with my parents, which was Philadelphia in the early 1990s.
It's pretty sanitized of actual gay behavior, but there's one scene where they have a party and the main gay couple dance.
I just recall hearing my father wince and looking away.
I know some straight guys can't help it, but that also implied something to me about building a barrier, and not being myself for very long time.
Maybe films like that are not good family entertainment.

The irony is that then one sits in a pub and there's rugby and football on the television and all the guys cheer as men are kissing, hugging and groping one another!
OK, it's a different context, but still, it can seem like a double-standard.
It's OK for straight guys to kiss after scoring a goal, but it's not OK for two gay guys.

Originally posted by littled16

I think whether you are being hypocritical or not hinges on the reason behind the disappointment if your son turned out to be gay. I mean, would you be disappointed at the very fact of him being homosexual, the knowledge that you might possibly never have grandchildren, or due to the possible hurt and discrimination that he might well experience just for being gay?

The reason(s) for disappointment could be varied. Whether the disappointment would be hypocritical or not depends on the thoughts behind it.

I have two boys and if one of them was gay I would hold a lot of disappointment and I'm sure it is hypocritical. I would support him all I could and never let him know but in the end it would still be there.

My two neighbors are gay retired teachers. They been together for like 50 years and laugh that only their heterosexual friends want them to get married. We get a long great and I respect their relationship, but being a heterosexual male I find the aspects of a sexual relationship with another male somewhat disgusting though I can see the love the two have for each other as a good thing. Who knows maybe homosexuals see heterosexual as a disgusting action too....I wouldn't blame them if they did.

But the bottom line is my heterosexual tendencies will forever drive what I see as desirable or not and there is not much I can do about that...

Originally posted by kaylaluv


I'm confused. Was there sex in this movie? Were there two men kissing or holding hands in the movie?

Why not? I guess my point is that a kids movie might not be the best venue to create questions about sexuality, or how many different ones there are.

Originally posted by Xtrozero

Originally posted by kaylaluv


I'm confused. Was there sex in this movie? Were there two men kissing or holding hands in the movie?

Why not? I guess my point is that a kids movie might not be the best venue to create questions about sexuality, or how many different ones there are.

Well, I'd like to know from the OP if her boy asked about the line in the movie. Because I don't think small kids would have gotten any sexuality from it at all. Older kids would, but older kids already know about it, trust me.

I think Bambi has more sexuality in it. The owl tries to explain to Bambi how during a certain time of the year (mating season), you'll start to like girls. Bambi scoffs until he sees a pretty doe, than BAM - he's twitterpated. Twitterpated = horny, plain and simple. Did little kids catch that? Probably not.

reply to post by halfoldman


I had to read your post a few times for it to really "sink" in....and boy do you make an excellent point...anyways more thoughts I would like to share....for now have things I need to do........